• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Origin of the Universe...

there is really zero proof the USA put men on the moon - but you believe it, don't you ?

Not rely sure why you are making such a ridiculous statement. A sign of desperation, I suppose. You are welcome to believe in all the myths and superstitions that you want, but don’t expect others to necessarily but into it.
 
Not rely sure why you are making such a ridiculous statement. A sign of desperation, I suppose. You are welcome to believe in all the myths and superstitions that you want, but don’t expect others to necessarily but into it.

beliefs and skepticism forum, right ?

your belief is we went to the moon - you've been told it for all your life, right? maybe a book showed you that? media? people ?

and yet .... that's what Christianity is too, isn't it? we've been told God is real, we have a book showing us

is one more factual than the other? because the "facts" really do point to the moon landing was fake .... and you'll belief that we went anyway, right ?

I'm point out just how strong "beliefs" are without real "facts"
 
beliefs and skepticism forum, right ?

your belief is we went to the moon - you've been told it for all your life, right? maybe a book showed you that? media? people ?

and yet .... that's what Christianity is too, isn't it? we've been told God is real, we have a book showing us

is one more factual than the other? because the "facts" really do point to the moon landing was fake .... and you'll belief that we went anyway, right ?

I'm point out just how strong "beliefs" are without real "facts"

When you insist on including conspiracy theories, you immediately lose all credibility and your posts are no longer worth a reasoned response. Have a nice day.
 
More gaslighting. So sorry that I refuse to stay within your artificial paradigm. Then again, those with more philosophical background than I are wiping her floor with you, too. Fact is, you haven’t come anywhere close to establishing the actuality of a so-called “divine intellect” and so it remains empty words just like it was many pages ago.
It could be a divine intellect. But is it the ultimate fundamental divine intellect?
 
When you insist on including conspiracy theories, you immediately lose all credibility and your posts are no longer worth a reasoned response. Have a nice day.

THIS !

See how quickly you retreat and shake your head when the foundation of something you believe is questioned ?

I need to see FACT that the moon landing was real - we know media/govt lies, so that isn't factual. Footage/videos can be faked, that's not fact either. A book? The Bible is a book, isn't it ? we've been told? people tell us God is real, right ? NASA "lost" all the information? really? lol

you have no more "fact" that we moon landed than we have facts that Jesus lived, isn't that true? In fact, I think there is probably MORE facts Jesus lived, we have an entire written/oral history of it, right ?

Same with the "origin" of the universe - its a belief,, its faith ..... in science and what's told. "Facts" ?? no, not really
 
do you think observation of the world (the sun "coming up" in the morning) is the same as this feeling inside that there is a God that created everything ?
No. The latter is more akin to the feeling inside a young child that there is a boogie man hiding under his bed.
 
No. The latter is more akin to the feeling inside a young child that there is a boogie man hiding under his bed.

you think EVERY child on the planet that has ever lived felt "boogie man" ?
 
you think EVERY child on the planet that has ever lived felt "boogie man" ?
You think EVERY person on the planet that has ever lived felt God?



 
Epistemology is not 'idle curiosity' in my opinion.
No, not at all. Epistemology is exploring the limits of what we can know, and what we can't.

But just calling stuff we don't know "God" is not epistemology and doesn't ground anything. It's just substituting one unknown for another- with the exception that the new unknown carries a lot of hidden baggage that makes it not quite the same thing.

Let me see if I can explain it using the terminology of algebra broadly. Let X= "things we don't know yet", and let Y= "God". You are saying that X by itself is unacceptable as a grounding for our knowledge we have to date because we cannot ground stuff we know in things we don't know yet. OK. Seems fair enough. So to ground it, you are saying let X=Y. And you feel like THEN that creates a grounding for the things we know already.

So now there are 2 possibilities:

1) if X really is the same as Y, namely "things we don't know yet", how is that any kind of grounding? It's still the same thing. This God could be a God with who knows what agenda- capricious, malicious, incompetent, etc... who knows what? It could be a committee of gods- who are maybe disagreeing with each other and fighting over the agenda. Who knows? We are still left trying to ground what we do know in what we don't know yet. But if we can can ground the stuff we know in Y which we know nothing about, we can ground it in X, and just say we don't know yet, and we are going to keep trying to learn more as best we can, and leave it at that. That's how science works and how scientists think, as my Richard Feynman quote earlier showed: "we can live and not know everything".

Or, alternatively,

2) \I think your variable Y is really a Trojan horse loaded with all sorts of other baggage and hidden dangers, and you are just trying to sneak it in by trying to equate it to X. But it's really not. Y is loaded with tons of hidden baggage and assumptions: like that this God exists, and we know more about it than just being a synonym for stuff we don't know yet: Y is really a benevolant God, who wants the best for us, or who is the lawgiver of the universe which, if we just read the scriptures closely enough and follow the laws and commandments, will lead to a harmonious ability to live with his Natural Law. Or maybe you think that think that that's not ever possible, because this is a fallen universe and we can't ever live according to natural law no matter what we do- perhaps because because some woman we never met long ago ate an apple she wasn't supposed to, so now all we can do is live in a broken world and hope to get out of it to a better place by just saying "I believe" and worship this God- otherwise he threatens us with eternal hellfire. So we just see this world as a giant waiting room which we can't wait to leave. Whatever the case, this Y is really not the same thing as X. It comes with a lot of extra hidden baggage and added meanings- and perhaps that's why you think it helps clarify things more than just saying "X". But as you can see, then the whole argument falls apart at its root because then X=/= Y. You are talking about two very different things and trying to equate them.

So which of these are you arguing? (and if there's yet more options that I am not seeing here, feel free to add and we can discuss that instead, but these two are the only two options I see).

Sure and utilitarian philosophy has been used to commit the deadliest genocides in human history. Again I'm not sure if this is relevant for the discussion at hand.
How can it be utilitarian if it leads to unimaginable human pain and suffering?
 
Last edited:
You think EVERY person on the planet that has ever lived felt God?




yes I do
 
But just calling stuff we don't know "God" is not epistemology and doesn't ground anything. It's just substituting one unknown for another- with the exception that the new unknown carries a lot of hidden baggage that makes it not quite the same thing.
Yep, it's just a repackaging of the question. Taking the question out of one box and putting it in another. Doesn't solve anything, doesn't remove the box. Just makes a sound with our mouth that phonetically sounds like "GOD". It has no meaning other than the question. No answer. Just the question.

What is the square root of 24? Why, son, it's the square root of 24 - God!
 
Yep, it's just a repackaging of the question. Taking the question out of one box and putting it in another. Doesn't solve anything, doesn't remove the box. Just makes a sound with our mouth that phonetically sounds like "GOD". It has no meaning other than the question. No answer. Just the question.

What is the square root of 24? Why, son, it's the square root of 24 - God!
But I really think this argument is more than that: it’s a Trojan horse: trying to equate God with things we don’t know yet, and then once you take the bait, next thing you know, suddenly all women have to wear a hijab to cover their hair, or gay marriage is wrong, or you must support certain social or foreign policy positions over others, etc…
 
But I really think this argument is more than that: it’s a Trojan horse: trying to equate God with things we don’t know yet, and then once you take the bait, next thing you know, suddenly all women have to wear a hijab to cover their hair, or gay marriage is wrong, or you must support certain social or foreign policy positions over others, etc…
Very well could be. That's why I don't like the term "God" as a word in pure philosophy. Too much religious undertone & fuzziness - deism, theism, polytheism, pantheism, etc.
 
So why are you projecting it to others? You do realize there’s a difference between you and other people, right?

God is imprinted in each person - we all feel it. Even atheists feel it

I'm saying that as I believe it - not "projecting"

we all breath
we all feel God
 
God is imprinted in each person - we all feel it. Even atheists feel it
That's nice. Prove it! I certainly do not "feel it." Never have. So your assertion is false!
I'm saying that as I believe it - not "projecting"
Belief does not equal fact.
we all breath
Yes, that is a function of the respiratory system. Simple physiology.
which applies only to you.
we all feel God
Speak for yourself!
 
THIS !

See how quickly you retreat and shake your head when the foundation of something you believe is questioned ?

I need to see FACT that the moon landing was real - we know media/govt lies, so that isn't factual. Footage/videos can be faked, that's not fact either. A book? The Bible is a book, isn't it ? we've been told? people tell us God is real, right ? NASA "lost" all the information? really? lol

you have no more "fact" that we moon landed than we have facts that Jesus lived, isn't that true? In fact, I think there is probably MORE facts Jesus lived, we have an entire written/oral history of it, right ?

Same with the "origin" of the universe - its a belief,, its faith ..... in science and what's told. "Facts" ?? no, not really

There’s no shame in rejecting ridiculousness as you are now spouting. The shame is in actually supporting and promoting such silliness, as you are doing. If you are satisfied that no one will now take you the least bit seriously, then that is up to you, and you can continue to embarrass yourself to the maximum.
 
It could be a divine intellect. But is it the ultimate fundamental divine intellect?

I reject it all until someone can find me some evidence. Just making up stuff is way too easy and always has been.
 
God is imprinted in each person - we all feel it. Even atheists feel it

we all breath
we all feel God

This is nothing more than your opinion. It is nowhere close to actual fact. This so-called “feeling of god” is nothing more than you conspiring with your brain to foster that “feeling”, but it proves exactly nothing other than you are fooling yourself.
 
Back
Top Bottom