The Obvious Economic Solution Is Being Portrayed As A Problem. Immigration is Potential Human Capital, Not A Threat.

[Peacenik]

The US birthrate is down. Millennials are not having babies. Jobs are going unfilled.

Social Security needs more younger workers to pay into the system as US baby boomers retire.

Meanwhile, vast numbers of willing workers who only want to work and contribute to society are clamoring to get into the USA.

Seems like a no-brainer. We should let them in and put them to work. The GDP would soar, the country would grow. Social Security would be buoyed.

So why are we not tapping into this rather obvious and logical solution?

Racism. Stupid racism. The people are 'the wrong color,' meaning they are not white Europeans.

After all these years we still haven't gotten past the stupid idea that Hispanics can't be good citizens.

Right wing propaganda is seriously holding us back from a rather obvious solution. We have some problems. The solution has already been presented to us. All we have to do is use what is available to us to create a very workable solution. But the solution is being portrayed as another 'problem.' Fear and hatred are being amplified for Republican political gain.

People - you need to think for yourselves. Stop listening to right wing talk pundits. We should allow way more legal immigration, use all this vast potential human capital to build up our nation, dial up our economy, and make America greater. Sure, have a good vetting system. Weed out the criminals. No, we don't want them. Yes, turn them around. That's only a small percentage. The rest should be allowed to make America greater.

They want it. We need it. It's time to wise up and see the big picture.

 

[washunut]

The US birthrate is down. Millennials are not having babies. Jobs are going unfilled.

Social Security needs more younger workers to pay into the system as US baby boomers retire.

Meanwhile, vast numbers of willing workers who only want to work and contribute to society are clamoring to get into the USA.

Seems like a no-brainer. We should let them in and put them to work. The GDP would soar, the country would grow. Social Security would be buoyed.

So why are we not tapping into this rather obvious and logical solution?

Racism. Stupid racism. The people are 'the wrong color,' meaning they are not white Europeans.

After all these years we still haven't gotten past the stupid idea that Hispanics can't be good citizens.

Right wing propaganda is seriously holding us back from a rather obvious solution. We have some problems. The solution has already been presented to us. All we have to do is use what is available to us to create a very workable solution. But the solution is being portrayed as another 'problem.' Fear and hatred are being amplified for Republican political gain.

People - you need to think for yourselves. Stop listening to right wing talk pundits. We should allow way more legal immigration, use all this vast potential human capital to build up our nation, dial up our economy, and make America greater. Sure, have a good vetting system. Weed out the criminals. No, we don't want them. Yes, turn them around. That's only a small percentage. The rest should be allowed to make America greater.

They want it. We need it. It's time to wise up and see the big picture.

To paint any complex issue as either black or white or a simple partisan issue does injustice to "the other side".

For example is our country better off allowing immigration of people who already have been educated in the fields we need now and in the future. For example having immigrants who graduated from the best engineering universities or medical schools or nurses is that better than a flood of folks not prepared for the economy of the future.

We talk about the great influx of immigrants who helped grow the US in the early 20th century. That is true. However we need to remember we have largely moved past the industrial economy to the beginning of the AI Tech economy where sheer numbers of people was key to a rise in GDP. Not to say as the flood of folks from more than 100 countries enter some of them will not help in these areas. Certainly some of their children will go through our school system and succeed.

All that being said an unfettered number of people entering our nation is not a sure thing to better the living standard of America. Not sure which countries out there, who are not listening to our "right wing pundits" allowed this access.

 

[Peacenik]

To paint any complex issue as either black or white or a simple partisan issue does injustice to "the other side".

For example is our country better off allowing immigration of people who already have been educated in the fields we need now and in the future. For example having immigrants who graduated from the best engineering universities or medical schools or nurses is that better than a flood of folks not prepared for the economy of the future.

We talk about the great influx of immigrants who helped grow the US in the early 20th century. That is true. However we need to remember we have largely moved past the industrial economy to the beginning of the AI Tech economy where sheer numbers of people was key to a rise in GDP. Not to say as the flood of folks from more than 100 countries enter some of them will not help in these areas. Certainly some of their children will go through our school system and succeed.

All that being said an unfettered number of people entering our nation is not a sure thing to better the living standard of America. Not sure which countries out there, who are not listening to our "right wing pundits" allowed this access.

I didn't make it a partisan issue. Right wing talk pundits did. The Republican party did. It never had to be.

The fact of the matter is that when people are highly motivated to work and succeed, they will do what they have to do to achieve their goals.

If people need training or education it is in our long term interest to provide it and make it available at the lowest cost to the workers as possbile. Whatever cost that entails will be paid back multiple times over in increased GDP in time.

People are so blinded by the downside and scary talk surrounding immigration they are not bothering to consider the vast potential.

There is a lot of stupid hatred and fear over "White Replacement." That is so reprehensible it is beyond dumb.

Did they ever consider how Native Americans felt about "Replacement?"

Talk about selfish and inconsiderate... Those xenophobic views nail it.

We have this vast potential right here on our doorstep. All we have to do is turn on the switch and use it!

It is insane to be afraid to make America greater.

 

[DrewPaul]

The US birthrate is down. Millennials are not having babies. Jobs are going unfilled.

Social Security needs more younger workers to pay into the system as US baby boomers retire.

Meanwhile, vast numbers of willing workers who only want to work and contribute to society are clamoring to get into the USA.

Seems like a no-brainer. We should let them in and put them to work. The GDP would soar, the country would grow. Social Security would be buoyed.

The USA is providing citizenship to a million immigrants per year more than any other country in the world. These are people who want to be Americans, not just people coming here for a job. People who learn about our laws and what it means to be an American citizen. The process could be streamlined and shoot for 2 million a year. An area we're low is folks voluntarily joining the military. Another way to gain citizenship is for able bodied men and woman to join the military service for a four year hitch and get citizenship.

Allowing un-vetted folks to trespass into our country is the worst was to do it. Its a disaster.

 

[Peacenik]

The USA is providing citizenship to a million immigrants per year more than any other country in the world. These are people who want to be Americans, not just people coming here for a job. People who learn about our laws and what it means to be an American citizen. The process could be streamlined and shoot for 2 million a year. An area we're low is folks voluntarily joining the military. Another way to gain citizenship is for able bodied men and woman to join the military service for a four year hitch and get citizenship.

Allowing un-vetted folks to trespass into our country is the worst was to do it. Its a disaster.

Unfortunately serving in our military is not an automatic route to citizenship, believe it or not.

Agreed, the unvetted should not be allowed in.

Our birthrate is not keeping up with our growth potential. It is a no brainer that with all these people wanting to get in, that we should let more in. A million or two a year is not enough.

 

[BabyAugustine]

The US birthrate is down. Millennials are not having babies. Jobs are going unfilled.

Social Security needs more younger workers to pay into the system as US baby boomers retire.

Meanwhile, vast numbers of willing workers who only want to work and contribute to society are clamoring to get into the USA.

Seems like a no-brainer. We should let them in and put them to work. The GDP would soar, the country would grow. Social Security would be buoyed.

So why are we not tapping into this rather obvious and logical solution?

Racism. Stupid racism. The people are 'the wrong color,' meaning they are not white Europeans.

After all these years we still haven't gotten past the stupid idea that Hispanics can't be good citizens.

Right wing propaganda is seriously holding us back from a rather obvious solution. We have some problems. The solution has already been presented to us. All we have to do is use what is available to us to create a very workable solution. But the solution is being portrayed as another 'problem.' Fear and hatred are being amplified for Republican political gain.

People - you need to think for yourselves. Stop listening to right wing talk pundits. We should allow way more legal immigration, use all this vast potential human capital to build up our nation, dial up our economy, and make America greater. Sure, have a good vetting system. Weed out the criminals. No, we don't want them. Yes, turn them around. That's only a small percentage. The rest should be allowed to make America greater.

They want it. We need it. It's time to wise up and see the big picture.

You misstate thel problem, the solution, and the nature of immigration.
1) Immigration such as happened under Carter has almost no supporters now since the drug dealers, murderers,and prisoners that Castro shipped from Cuba became a huge social cost
Many immigrants come here to NOT WORK except at prostitution or drugs or gun running.
2) I am for immigrants coming who will become citizens. IF your religion teaches that a family member who apostasizes should be killed, why would you want them???
3) The labor problem is helping Biden.He is cooking the stats and much of that is possible because of immigrant labor. The big increase in the numbers is people holding 2 jobs. And why have almost 8 million left the labor force and you show no concern or interest in that, as if it is natural

Jun 5, 2023 — Ever since that number has steadily declined, and today 7.2 million men have dropped out of America's workforce, leaving a significant void.

 

[Integrityrespec]

The US birthrate is down. Millennials are not having babies. Jobs are going unfilled.

Social Security needs more younger workers to pay into the system as US baby boomers retire.

Meanwhile, vast numbers of willing workers who only want to work and contribute to society are clamoring to get into the USA.

Seems like a no-brainer. We should let them in and put them to work. The GDP would soar, the country would grow. Social Security would be buoyed.

So why are we not tapping into this rather obvious and logical solution?

Racism. Stupid racism. The people are 'the wrong color,' meaning they are not white Europeans.

After all these years we still haven't gotten past the stupid idea that Hispanics can't be good citizens.

Right wing propaganda is seriously holding us back from a rather obvious solution. We have some problems. The solution has already been presented to us. All we have to do is use what is available to us to create a very workable solution. But the solution is being portrayed as another 'problem.' Fear and hatred are being amplified for Republican political gain.

People - you need to think for yourselves. Stop listening to right wing talk pundits. We should allow way more legal immigration, use all this vast potential human capital to build up our nation, dial up our economy, and make America greater. Sure, have a good vetting system. Weed out the criminals. No, we don't want them. Yes, turn them around. That's only a small percentage. The rest should be allowed to make America greater.

They want it. We need it. It's time to wise up and see the big picture.

BS. The problem isn't racism. You only like to cry wolf. The problem is illegal immigration. We have laws that are not enforced and should be. It's not about racism. That's just the lefts fall back story for everything.
American has hundreds of thousands waiting to come into the nation legally but can't because the country is too busy with illegals.

 

[Fearandloathing]

You misstate thel problem, the solution, and the nature of immigration.
1) Immigration such as happened under Carter has almost no supporters now since the drug dealers, murderers,and prisoners that Castro shipped from Cuba became a huge social cost
Many immigrants come here to NOT WORK except at prostitution or drugs or gun running.
2) I am for immigrants coming who will become citizens. IF your religion teaches that a family member who apostasizes should be killed, why would you want them???
3) The labor problem is helping Biden.He is cooking the stats and much of that is possible because of immigrant labor. The big increase in the numbers is people holding 2 jobs. And why have almost 8 million left the labor force and you show no concern or interest in that, as if it is natural

Jun 5, 2023 — Ever since that number has steadily declined, and today 7.2 million men have dropped out of America's workforce, leaving a significant void.

WOW


I don't know when I've seen a post that was so.....wrong on everything

 

[poppopfox]

You misstate thel problem, the solution, and the nature of immigration.
1) Immigration such as happened under Carter has almost no supporters now since the drug dealers, murderers,and prisoners that Castro shipped from Cuba became a huge social cost
Many immigrants come here to NOT WORK except at prostitution or drugs or gun running.
2) I am for immigrants coming who will become citizens. IF your religion teaches that a family member who apostasizes should be killed, why would you want them???
3) The labor problem is helping Biden.He is cooking the stats and much of that is possible because of immigrant labor. The big increase in the numbers is people holding 2 jobs. And why have almost 8 million left the labor force and you show no concern or interest in that, as if it is natural

Jun 5, 2023 — Ever since that number has steadily declined, and today 7.2 million men have dropped out of America's workforce, leaving a significant void.

Source? Sounds like Rush has been resurrected.

 

[Integrityrespec]

WOW


I don't know when I've seen a post that was so.....wrong on everything

You clearly aren't keeping up with the democrat operation to funnel illegals into areas where they are in danger of losing US House seats. Load up the population with illegals and count them on the census for the purpose of determining representatives and electoral votes. It's a fact and the only reason that makes any sense that the democrats haven't already shut the border down.

 

[samiam5211]

The US birthrate is down. Millennials are not having babies. Jobs are going unfilled.

Social Security needs more younger workers to pay into the system as US baby boomers retire.

Meanwhile, vast numbers of willing workers who only want to work and contribute to society are clamoring to get into the USA.

Seems like a no-brainer. We should let them in and put them to work. The GDP would soar, the country would grow. Social Security would be buoyed.

So why are we not tapping into this rather obvious and logical solution?

Racism. Stupid racism. The people are 'the wrong color,' meaning they are not white Europeans.

After all these years we still haven't gotten past the stupid idea that Hispanics can't be good citizens.

Right wing propaganda is seriously holding us back from a rather obvious solution. We have some problems. The solution has already been presented to us. All we have to do is use what is available to us to create a very workable solution. But the solution is being portrayed as another 'problem.' Fear and hatred are being amplified for Republican political gain.

People - you need to think for yourselves. Stop listening to right wing talk pundits. We should allow way more legal immigration, use all this vast potential human capital to build up our nation, dial up our economy, and make America greater. Sure, have a good vetting system. Weed out the criminals. No, we don't want them. Yes, turn them around. That's only a small percentage. The rest should be allowed to make America greater.

They want it. We need it. It's time to wise up and see the big picture.

Yes, people are a resource, not a burden.

 

[Peacenik]

BS. The problem isn't racism. You only like to cry wolf. The problem is illegal immigration. We have laws that are not enforced and should be. It's not about racism. That's just the lefts fall back story for everything.
American has hundreds of thousands waiting to come into the nation legally but can't because the country is too busy with illegals.

On one hand we have millions of unfilled jobs.

On the other hand we have millions of workers seeking jobs.

It only seems natural to put those hands together.

There must be a way. This solution is too obvious.

They are called 'illegals' because the law is not serving society.

Therefore the laws must change. Change the laws to better serve society.

There is vast untapped potential human capital there just waiting to be turned into profit, business, demand, job creation, and increased GDP; all we have to do is change the law to set up a massive vetting operation to let the good ones come in. So many of them are just fleeing bad people. They are not criminals. They just want to work and be good citizens. We can do this reasonable thing and make America greater.

Here are the plusses:

1. Reduce the problem at the border.
2. Get more money paid into Social Security.
3. Grow America.
4. Increase the GDP.
5. Generate more revenue.
6. Get more jobs filled.
7. Make America more diverse.

Here's the bad parts:

1. They might vote Democrat.
2. Stop right there with the Democrat thing. Deal killer for Democrat haters.
3. There's other bad stuff; but #1. Can't get past that one.
4. We don't want to admit it's #1, so we'll attempt to claim lots of other things, like we're for law and order and they are illegal.
5. Don't make us look silly talking about law and order by bringing up you know who.
6. They speak Spanish and we don't like that.
7. They do the jobs we don't want but it scares us anyway.

 

[Peacenik]

You clearly aren't keeping up with the democrat operation to funnel illegals into areas where they are in danger of losing US House seats. Load up the population with illegals and count them on the census for the purpose of determining representatives and electoral votes. It's a fact and the only reason that makes any sense that the democrats haven't already shut the border down.

Seems like President Biden offered to shut the border down but Donald didn't want his major campaign issue quashed so he strangely rejected the very thing he had been asking for. Made him look like the dog that caught the fire truck and didn't know what to do with it.

 

[washunut]

On one hand we have millions of unfilled jobs.

On the other hand we have millions of workers seeking jobs.

It only seems natural to put those hands together.

There must be a way. This solution is too obvious.

They are called 'illegals' because the law is not serving society.

Therefore the laws must change. Change the laws to better serve society.

There is vast untapped potential human capital there just waiting to be turned into profit, business, demand, job creation, and increased GDP; all we have to do is change the law to set up a massive vetting operation to let the good ones come in. So many of them are just fleeing bad people. They are not criminals. They just want to work and be good citizens. We can do this reasonable thing and make America greater.

Here are the plusses:

1. Reduce the problem at the border.
2. Get more money paid into Social Security.
3. Grow America.
4. Increase the GDP.
5. Generate more revenue.
6. Get more jobs filled.
7. Make America more diverse.

Here's the bad parts:

1. They might vote Democrat.
2. Stop right there with the Democrat thing. Deal killer for Democrat haters.
3. There's other bad stuff; but #1. Can't get past that one.
4. We don't want to admit it's #1, so we'll attempt to claim lots of other things, like we're for law and order and they are illegal.
5. Don't make us look silly talking about law and order by bringing up you know who.
6. They speak Spanish and we don't like that.
7. They do the jobs we don't want but it scares us anyway.

Sounds sooo simple. Shocked Biden has not listed your plusses and called for more illegal immigration. Probably need to get this to the Biden campaign ASAP!

 

[Peacenik]

Sounds sooo simple. Shocked Biden has not listed your plusses and called for more illegal immigration. Probably need to get this to the Biden campaign ASAP!

The reason for this absurd strawman suggestion is because there is no viable logical counter argument to something that makes so much sense.

Why would anyone call for more undocumented immigration when the solution is to increase the quota for documented immigration? What a silly strawman. A poorly thought-out post.

We need to create an enhanced system for vetting and an expanded legal pathway to connect willing workers with jobs, training and education. That's the idea in the OP.

Of course, we would only want to do this if we really wanted to make America greater.

How about this?

We set up this new pathway designed to get work done and taxes paid in the USA. It doesn't have to be immediate citizenship. It could be work visas. Then, we tell them they have to pay an entry fee to apply for US citizenship. They pay a bunch of money over the period of many years just for the privilege of being allowed to work in the USA. Then, if they abide by all of our laws for 5-10 years, learn English, learn the Constitution, and keep producing and paying, we will accept their application for US citizenship after they have proven beyond any doubts they are productive law abiding members of our society.

That way, American millennials are free to refrain from having babies they do not wish to have, the tax base expands, Social Security gets paid into, Federal revenue gets paid into, work gets done, the economy expands, and our GDP grows. Boom. That makes America greater.

I do not see a downside.

And it also reduces the pileup of people on our border.

What we need are:

1) A much larger vetting system designed to process more people at the border. We must turn away the criminals while allowing the good people in.
2) A system to connect willing new workers with jobs, training and education. (Oh! Pressure on our capitalists: Can they actually utilize this potential productivity and make it pay?)
3) Ideas about what we want to build with all this new potential productivity. (Enhanced infrastructure, anyone? - better roads and bridges, a better grid, better internet...)

It could be like the CCC. A new way to connect workers with jobs, address the border crisis, and get Social Security paid into; all in one big program.

It is a good idea.

 

[washunut]

The reason for this absurd strawman suggestion is because there is no viable logical counter argument to something that makes so much sense.

Why would anyone call for more undocumented immigration when the solution is to increase the quota for documented immigration? What a silly strawman. A poorly thought-out post.

We need to create an enhanced system for vetting and an expanded legal pathway to connect willing workers with jobs, training and education. That's the idea in the OP.

Of course, we would only want to do this if we really wanted to make America greater.

How about this?

We set up this new pathway designed to get work done and taxes paid in the USA. It doesn't have to be immediate citizenship. It could be work visas. Then, we tell them they have to pay an entry fee to apply for US citizenship. They pay a bunch of money over the period of many years just for the privilege of being allowed to work in the USA. Then, if they abide by all of our laws for 5-10 years, learn English, learn the Constitution, and keep producing and paying, we will accept their application for US citizenship after they have proven beyond any doubts they are productive law abiding members of our society.

That way, American millennials are free to refrain from having babies they do not wish to have, the tax base expands, Social Security gets paid into, Federal revenue gets paid into, work gets done, the economy expands, and our GDP grows. Boom. That makes America greater.

I do not see a downside.

And it also reduces the pileup of people on our border.

What we need are:

1) A much larger vetting system designed to process more people at the border. We must turn away the criminals while allowing the good people in.
2) A system to connect willing new workers with jobs, training and education. (Oh! Pressure on our capitalists: Can they actually utilize this potential productivity and make it pay?)
3) Ideas about what we want to build with all this new potential productivity. (Enhanced infrastructure, anyone? - better roads and bridges, a better grid, better internet...)

It could be like the CCC. A new way to connect workers with jobs, address the border crisis, and get Social Security paid into; all in one big program.

It is a good idea.

First you were clear that your proposal was for increased legal immigration versus what is happening now. What you say above makes sense with a caveat. Not sure that your estimate of the number of immigrants we need is accurate. Pretty su you are not taking into account the impact AI will have on our workforce. Bernie Sanders recognizes this and is calling for a 32 hour week.

We should care more about GDP per capita than the raw number. China has a huge GDP with many millions living in extreme poverty.

You also seem to not acknowledge we already have a green card system, perhaps we need to get rid of the chain migration portion of legal immigration and just allow the type of folks you mention above.

Where we disagree mightily is it helping the border crisis. There are many millions across the globe, well above your 2-3 million that want entry into the country. Americans live better than more than 90% of the world's citizens. Though folks are crossing our southern border they come from the entire world.

Lastly (for now) America sadly has a large underclass. We don't do a good job of educating many kids leaving them with few opportunities in a technology economy. I say fix that problem before bringing in other more qualified folks from around the world keeping Americans in poverty. I do not appreciate your insults. This will be my last post with you on this subject if they continue.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

You clearly aren't keeping up with the democrat operation to funnel illegals into areas where they are in danger of losing US House seats. Load up the population with illegals and count them on the census for the purpose of determining representatives and electoral votes. It's a fact and the only reason that makes any sense that the democrats haven't already shut the border down.

Then, after counting them, they move them to work in the pizza places they use for their pedo cult stuff. You know, because they can talk openly around them because they don’t doesn’t speak no good English and stuff.:

 

[Craig234]

The issue of immigration politically is almost entirely about using it to exploit people's stoked fears for votes, to manipulate them. Hitler did the very same thing (praising American policies blocking immigrants). In contrast, the last major immigration reform we had (increasing* immigration was initiated by JFK:

 

[Peacenik]

First you were clear that your proposal was for increased legal immigration versus what is happening now. What you say above makes sense with a caveat. Not sure that your estimate of the number of immigrants we need is accurate. Pretty su you are not taking into account the impact AI will have on our workforce. Bernie Sanders recognizes this and is calling for a 32 hour week.

We should care more about GDP per capita than the raw number. China has a huge GDP with many millions living in extreme poverty.

You also seem to not acknowledge we already have a green card system, perhaps we need to get rid of the chain migration portion of legal immigration and just allow the type of folks you mention above.

Where we disagree mightily is it helping the border crisis. There are many millions across the globe, well above your 2-3 million that want entry into the country. Americans live better than more than 90% of the world's citizens. Though folks are crossing our southern border they come from the entire world.

Lastly (for now) America sadly has a large underclass. We don't do a good job of educating many kids leaving them with few opportunities in a technology economy. I say fix that problem before bringing in other more qualified folks from around the world keeping Americans in poverty. I do not appreciate your insults. This will be my last post with you on this subject if they continue.

Your post was criticized. Nothing has been said about you. The message is fair game. The messenger is not.

AI is a wild card. So far it is virtual. Where is the hands-on part of it? AI doesn't do landscaping, roofing or clean up hotel rooms. AI doesn't work on the line in meatpacking houses, nor does it harvest produce. We have unfilled jobs today. Workers willing to do them but the workers are not allowed in under current law. The law needs to change.

GDP per capita: Many Americans do not work. That reduces the GDP per capita. If only workers/producers are allowed in, that raises the GDP per capita. Make chain migration abide by a structure designed to increase the GDP per capita. That would limit the number of non-producers allowed in.

Green card system: Expand it greatly. Get more work done. Make the GDP greater. Make America greater. Added benefit: More would get paid into SS and fed revenue.

Education: Good point. Our education system sucks. I agree it needs vast improvement. Teachers are underpaid. Pay them more. Expand curriculum. Spend more on education. Where will the money come from? Tax the rich more. They are the ones who benefit from keeping America stupid. That has to change. America has fallen behind the rest of the world in education as the super rich have expanded their wealth. That has to change. People are smarter in other countries where the proportion of wealth differential is not as great as in the USA. There is no reason our society needs to be producing this amount of wealth for a relatively small proportion of our society. We can still have a very well off rich class. It just doesn't have to be so extreme. And for what? It's not helping the country be great.

Tax the rich more. Improve education. Let more workers in, increase the GDP, build America back better, make America greater. It's all just straight up logic.

 

[Peacenik]

The issue of immigration politically is almost entirely about using it to exploit people's stoked fears for votes, to manipulate them. Hitler did the very same thing (praising American policies blocking immigrants). In contrast, the last major immigration reform we had (increasing* immigration was initiated by JFK:

There is no good come-back to that one. Nailed it. A Nation of Immigrants. That is what the USA is. How quickly Americans forget where they come from in just a few generations.

One of the biggest problems in American politics is people take America for granted. They assume America will always be here, can take any amount of abuse. Politics is distorted until people are voting for really dumb reasons and many are so disgusted by the political nastiness that they refuse to become involved and don't even bother to vote at all.

The apathetic are a particular problem. They don't feel any personal responsibility at all to help run our nation. They know it is a self-governed nation, but they just figure others will take up the slack if they slack off on their civic duty. They shirk their civic duty. It's a good thing everyone doesn't act like them or we wouldn't have a nation at all.

Another brand of political laziness is not learning to discern between fact and opinion. This foolish state of mind falls for opinion and votes very foolishly based on emotion. These voters tend to vote very selfishly. Their main concern is themselves. Never do they even consider what is best for America. They may as well spit in the faces of our founders who worked so hard to create this nation.

We need people to understand this is not a game. What we do affects whether or not America succeeds or crumbles. Right now, we are not doing a very good job. Big money controls our government. We don't have a government that serves we, the people. Our government serves it, the money. People don't have confidence in our government or our institutions. Apathy reigns. None of this bodes will for the American future. If it wasn't for the greed of the super rich and powerful and their desire to maintain the status quo, America would slip right away from us. We have a republic based on greed and misinformation. It's false. No wonder so many are dismayed.

We have to figure out a way to get people to understand the big picture, care about the future of our country, and carve out a part of their lives to do something about it. The situation is not well in hand. America will not simply run itself on auto-pilot. We have to become more hands-on. The for-profit media, the social media rumor mill, infotainment, and peer pressure all work against America.

We need some kind of inspiration to turn this all around. It has to be bigger than a popular figure. It has to be a movement. It has to be grass roots. Something like the American Anti Corruption Act.

 

[washunut]

Your post was criticized. Nothing has been said about you. The message is fair game. The messenger is not.

AI is a wild card. So far it is virtual. Where is the hands-on part of it? AI doesn't do landscaping, roofing or clean up hotel rooms. AI doesn't work on the line in meatpacking houses, nor does it harvest produce. We have unfilled jobs today. Workers willing to do them but the workers are not allowed in under current law. The law needs to change.

GDP per capita: Many Americans do not work. That reduces the GDP per capita. If only workers/producers are allowed in, that raises the GDP per capita. Make chain migration abide by a structure designed to increase the GDP per capita. That would limit the number of non-producers allowed in.

Green card system: Expand it greatly. Get more work done. Make the GDP greater. Make America greater. Added benefit: More would get paid into SS and fed revenue.

Education: Good point. Our education system sucks. I agree it needs vast improvement. Teachers are underpaid. Pay them more. Expand curriculum. Spend more on education. Where will the money come from? Tax the rich more. They are the ones who benefit from keeping America stupid. That has to change. America has fallen behind the rest of the world in education as the super rich have expanded their wealth. That has to change. People are smarter in other countries where the proportion of wealth differential is not as great as in the USA. There is no reason our society needs to be producing this amount of wealth for a relatively small proportion of our society. We can still have a very well off rich class. It just doesn't have to be so extreme. And for what? It's not helping the country be great.

Tax the rich more. Improve education. Let more workers in, increase the GDP, build America back better, make America greater. It's all just straight up lo

Not sure I complained about anything, why the first paragraph?

Adding more jobs that you mentioned above will not raise GDP per capita, rather it will lower it.

I am for immigration that is a positive for America. For example if someone graduates from one of our great universities and wants to stay here I say great. If someone from another country studied to be a professional of some sort and wants to bring those skills to America, again great.

Yes we are at the beginning of the AI age, but are past the industrial age when the country welcomed unskilled workers to build out the nation. To the extent we need unskilled labor to do the things you mention above we should have some type of workers permit to allow people to do those tasks then go home.

 

[Peacenik]

Not sure I complained about anything, why the first paragraph?

It was in response to: "I do not appreciate your insults. This will be my last post with you on this subject if they continue."

Adding more jobs that you mentioned above will not raise GDP per capita, rather it will lower it.

I am for immigration that is a positive for America. For example if someone graduates from one of our great universities and wants to stay here I say great. If someone from another country studied to be a professional of some sort and wants to bring those skills to America, again great.

Yes we are at the beginning of the AI age, but are past the industrial age when the country welcomed unskilled workers to build out the nation. To the extent we need unskilled labor to do the things you mention above we should have some type of workers permit to allow people to do those tasks then go home.

The demand for low skilled labor is increasing, not decreasing. If so, it is illogical to expect them to work only temporary then leave while there is still more work to be done. Yes, utilizing available workers. Good. Agreed. And if they work here for years and years, and pay into our system, plus pay an extra fee for being allowed to work here, they should be allowed to apply for citizenship.

Yes, of course we want higher educated immigrants as well.

Anyone who is a producer, a worker who produces, increases our GDP per capita. People who do not work decrease it. Note it is only natural as people live longer and more are retired that the GDP per capita will be reduced naturally. Allowing more younger workers in will offset that.

 

[washunut]

It was in response to: "I do not appreciate your insults. This will be my last post with you on this subject if they continue."



The demand for low skilled labor is increasing, not decreasing. If so, it is illogical to expect them to work only temporary then leave while there is still more work to be done. Yes, utilizing available workers. Good. Agreed. And if they work here for years and years, and pay into our system, plus pay an extra fee for being allowed to work here, they should be allowed to apply for citizenship.

Yes, of course we want higher educated immigrants as well.

Anyone who is a producer, a worker who produces, increases our GDP per capita. People who do not work decrease it. Note it is only natural as people live longer and more are retired that the GDP per capita will be reduced naturally. Allowing more younger workers in will offset that.

Remember I am not saying immigrants will not increase GDP. GDP per capita in the U.S. is currently about $80K. Just not possible for someone working lawn-keeping or working in a hotel will increase GDP by 80K and that is without their kids etc.

I am not legal immigration, after all my grandparents on both sides were immigrants. I simply accept the fact that the workforce of the 21st century will not be the same as the workforce of the early 20th century.

 

[Ishm]

The US birthrate is down. Millennials are not having babies. Jobs are going unfilled.

Social Security needs more younger workers to pay into the system as US baby boomers retire.

Meanwhile, vast numbers of willing workers who only want to work and contribute to society are clamoring to get into the USA.

Seems like a no-brainer. We should let them in and put them to work. The GDP would soar, the country would grow. Social Security would be buoyed.

So why are we not tapping into this rather obvious and logical solution?

Racism. Stupid racism. The people are 'the wrong color,' meaning they are not white Europeans.

After all these years we still haven't gotten past the stupid idea that Hispanics can't be good citizens.

Right wing propaganda is seriously holding us back from a rather obvious solution. We have some problems. The solution has already been presented to us. All we have to do is use what is available to us to create a very workable solution. But the solution is being portrayed as another 'problem.' Fear and hatred are being amplified for Republican political gain.

People - you need to think for yourselves. Stop listening to right wing talk pundits. We should allow way more legal immigration, use all this vast potential human capital to build up our nation, dial up our economy, and make America greater. Sure, have a good vetting system. Weed out the criminals. No, we don't want them. Yes, turn them around. That's only a small percentage. The rest should be allowed to make America greater.

They want it. We need it. It's time to wise up and see the big picture.

The US, like many other capitalist countries has a problem with what you propose. Years of underinvestment in infrastructure, driven by squeezing assets for maximum profit at lowest risk, means that a large influx of immigrants will drive many core infrastructure items to much higher prices and costs in higher taxes. Houses. Power. Roads. Bridges. School etc etc The existing citizens don't think much about long term benefits when they can't afford the house they want, or their property taxes skyrocket up etc etc. The immigration picture is wider than just jobs and people to fill them.

The USA is providing citizenship to a million immigrants per year more than any other country in the world. These are people who want to be Americans, not just people coming here for a job. People who learn about our laws and what it means to be an American citizen. The process could be streamlined and shoot for 2 million a year. An area we're low is folks voluntarily joining the military. Another way to gain citizenship is for able bodied men and woman to join the military service for a four year hitch and get citizenship.

Allowing un-vetted folks to trespass into our country is the worst was to do it. Its a disaster.

Just to put some perspective around those million immigrants, when adjusted for population size other 'new world' nations like Australia and New Zealand are taking in the equivalent of US 10 million to 15 million immigrants per year. They also have unemployment rates that hover around 4% even with proportionally much larger immigration rates. Both countries have long lists of migrant applicants waiting in the queue so only take those with the right skills. I am living in New Zealand at the moment working a contract there and you can see the pressure on House prices. Fortunately they have not neglected other infrastructure quite as much as parts of the US and mostly don't face power, water, schools etc issues. Even so, there is a significant amount of tax money going into other infrastructure like bigger/improved/new roads and bridges. Universal access to high speed broadband. Commuter rail etc etc.

Another interesting observation here in NZ is that immigration is only a political issue among the fringe hard right parties. The sort of wannabe magas. The main two political parties (liberal and conservative) don't usually campaign on immigration issues other than adjusting the rate of immigration to best fit the countries economic needs. The immigration 'hate' rhetoric that we see from the GOP in the US is something neither main stream party buys into, so the voters don't either. Makes me wonder how the US might be if one of the two major political parties weren't actively demonizing immigration?

 

[Peacenik]

Remember I am not saying immigrants will not increase GDP. GDP per capita in the U.S. is currently about $80K. Just not possible for someone working lawn-keeping or working in a hotel will increase GDP by 80K and that is without their kids etc.

I am not legal immigration, after all my grandparents on both sides were immigrants. I simply accept the fact that the workforce of the 21st century will not be the same as the workforce of the early 20th century.

Why is it so important to have per capita GDP so high if the only reason it is so high is because the super-rich skew the numbers?

The mean income is not that much per individual.

It does not make sense that most of the productivity in America really goes to increasing the wealth of a relatively few number of individuals who already have more wealth than they can possibly enjoy in a thousand lifetimes. What's it for? To hand down in legacy families? That does what kind of good for the country?

America would be much better if wealth was better distributed instead of so concentrated.

Donald got handed millions as a birthright. Look how he turned out. What a disgrace and a menace to our democracy. A laughing stock. Quite pathetic. He brings shame to America. His obsession is making himself richer. That doesn't do anything to make America great. His definition of "great" America is himself awash in wealth, power and attention. He doesn't care about anyone else.