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The NRA Wants Ex-Felons to Have Guns But Not Voting Rights

Chomsky

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it only matters when we are talking about people who normally could buy a firearm/ I love seeing Bannerrhoid organizations screaming that the NRA opposes this. well given all it takes is one unconfirmed phone call to put you on that list-yeah I am glad the NRA fights that sort of fascism
Well, I see this issue in even larger terms, as pointed-out several posts above:

1] A Constitutional Right should only, if ever, be infringed in the very narrowest of circumstances.

2] Any infringement, if ever, should only occur through the Courts using full exhaustive due process.

That's the basis of my argument here, irrespective of the specific topic, politics, or ideologies.
 

PIPEWRENCH

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That's reasonable I think, but I have Constitutional concerns with having to "prove" fitness for a "right".

I don't believe conviction of a crime should cause the loss of Constitutional rights. Maybe you let the guy out after he does his time, and throw him in for way longer if he makes the same mistake. That would work for me.

I think rights have to be taken away when people abuse them. I think there also must be clear path to restoring them. The best way to stop unwanted behavior is both punishment and then reward for doing what is right.

If you mean after you get out as in prison or jail I say no. Neither jail or prison rehabilitates or solves the problem but usually make things worse. Both prison and jail only take a person who has made a mistake and turns them into a monster. If you mean a rehabilitation facility which we do not have yet then I will agree if the person is deemed responsible.
 

PIPEWRENCH

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Jail and prison are almost always the wrong solution to the problem. When I was a young MP my opinion was lock them up and throw away the key. Clearly the opinion of someone with no knowledge of the problem. I later saw that jail only turned a small problem into a big problem. Most people who go to jail come out more screwed up than when they went in. When you put a young person who made a mistake among hundreds of evil insane monsters for a long period of time you do not get a good rehabilitated person but instead create another monster.

Today our entire judicial system is designed to create monsters instead of rehabilitate misguided people. Then we wonder why there are so many monsters.

Our system of never forgive or ever welcome anyone truly back into society is an atrocity and a clear sign of how barbaric are thinking is. We take away any hope of restoration of rights and freedom and wonder why they don't care anymore. Does it get any more stupid than this.

We even throw children in jail and give them adult status so we can punish them. You can ask any parent if their child at 14 is a responsible adult and they will tell you no. But when we want vengeance instead of justice and rehabilitation we have no problem saying they are responsible adults. The only problem this solves is our own need of vengeance.

A young person is usually the best candidate for rehabilitation. This is where we need to spend the most time and money. If you do not fix things at young age it will turn into a multi-million dollar problem that cannot be fixed.
 

Chomsky

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Jail and prison are almost always the wrong solution to the problem. When I was a young MP my opinion was lock them up and throw away the key. Clearly the opinion of someone with no knowledge of the problem. I later saw that jail only turned a small problem into a big problem. Most people who go to jail come out more screwed up than when they went in. When you put a young person who made a mistake among hundreds of evil insane monsters for a long period of time you do not get a good rehabilitated person but instead create another monster.

Today our entire judicial system is designed to create monsters instead of rehabilitate misguided people. Then we wonder why there are so many monsters.

Our system of never forgive or ever welcome anyone truly back into society is an atrocity and a clear sign of how barbaric are thinking is. We take away any hope of restoration of rights and freedom and wonder why they don't care anymore. Does it get any more stupid than this.

We even throw children in jail and give them adult status so we can punish them. You can ask any parent if their child at 14 is a responsible adult and they will tell you no. But when we want vengeance instead of justice and rehabilitation we have no problem saying they are responsible adults. The only problem this solves is our own need of vengeance.

A young person is usually the best candidate for rehabilitation. This is where we need to spend the most time and money. If you do not fix things at young age it will turn into a multi-million dollar problem that cannot be fixed.
Great post!

But I must add this: All the above becomes more ominous & atrocious, in the current era of private corporate run for-profit prisons!
 

PIPEWRENCH

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Great post!

But I must add this: All the above becomes more ominous & atrocious, in the current era of private corporate run for-profit prisons!

I agree.

The private sector will accommodate our needs. If our Judicial System decides rehabilitation is a better choice than creating monsters in prisons the private sector will build rehabilitation centers.

Of course maximum security prisons or mental hospitals will have to be kept to accommodate the truly insane who will not or cannot adjust to society. I prefer mental hospital and research to hopefully one day be able to find a cure for these mentally ill people. These people need to be isolated away from the young offenders so as not to influence them with their insane logic and ideas. The last thing we need is a bunch of young misguided first time offenders sitting around listening to someone such as Manson for a few years. That is not rehabilitation.
 

jaeger19

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I am okay with a felon who is convicted of a violent crime losing his second amendment rights. Rights come with responsibilities and if you have demonstrated that you are not responsible with those rights and use them to abuse other people, I think there is a good argument for losing them.

To be honest. I disagree with the loss of voting rights. I believe felons in prison should be allowed to vote. In what way does them exercising their right to vote endanger the rest of society?
 

jaeger19

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Jail and prison are almost always the wrong solution to the problem. When I was a young MP my opinion was lock them up and throw away the key. Clearly the opinion of someone with no knowledge of the problem. I later saw that jail only turned a small problem into a big problem. Most people who go to jail come out more screwed up than when they went in. When you put a young person who made a mistake among hundreds of evil insane monsters for a long period of time you do not get a good rehabilitated person but instead create another monster.

Today our entire judicial system is designed to create monsters instead of rehabilitate misguided people. Then we wonder why there are so many monsters.

Our system of never forgive or ever welcome anyone truly back into society is an atrocity and a clear sign of how barbaric are thinking is. We take away any hope of restoration of rights and freedom and wonder why they don't care anymore. Does it get any more stupid than this.

We even throw children in jail and give them adult status so we can punish them. You can ask any parent if their child at 14 is a responsible adult and they will tell you no. But when we want vengeance instead of justice and rehabilitation we have no problem saying they are responsible adults. The only problem this solves is our own need of vengeance.

A young person is usually the best candidate for rehabilitation. This is where we need to spend the most time and money. If you do not fix things at young age it will turn into a multi-million dollar problem that cannot be fixed.

the problem is that we have turned to our judicial system to solve societal problems that were solved within other institutions and the community before.

When I was in school.. you got in a fight, and if you started it.. you got suspended, and your parents were called and you probably got a spanking.

Now.. when you get in a fight.. whether you started it or were defending yourself doesn't often matter, and the a police officer or "resource officer" is there to arrest and charge the child.
 
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