The New York Square!!! (1 Viewer)

[creativedreams]

The "New York Square" is even more powerful than the "Bermuda Triangle"...

The New York Square defies ALL laws of physics and can collapse a building by removing all its vertical support columns at almost the speed of gravity!!!

 

[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

The "New York Square" is even more powerful than the "Bermuda Triangle"...

The New York Square defies ALL laws of physics and can collapse a building by removing all its vertical support columns at almost the speed of gravity!!!

As I asked of you yesterday at PF ... please explain EXACTLY how and which of the immutable laws of physics were defied ... and also how this seems to have escaped the attention of this whole planets scientific community ???



Why have the scientific and engineering communities of other nations not noticed or commented ???



How about STICKING to one thread and stop ducking and diving all over the place, posting new threads and ignoring the previous ones ...

Thrash it out ... just for a change !!!

 

[Gladiator]

As I asked of you yesterday at PF ... please explain EXACTLY how and which of the immutable laws of physics were defied ... and also how this seems to have escaped the attention of this whole planets scientific community ???



Why have the scientific and engineering communities of other nations not noticed or commented ???



How about STICKING to one thread and stop ducking and diving all over the place, posting new threads and ignoring the previous ones ...

Thrash it out ... just for a change !!!

Tell us your beliefs about Thermite.


What scientist wants to lose his job telling the truth that no one wants to hear?



If thermite was used, who used it? Do you really want to know? Have you ever heard of a False Flag incident?


What other provocations have been used as a contrivance to start wars in the past?


Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 9-11. Who helped him?

Bin Laden is a structural engineer, and he does not believe his planes brought down the Twin Towers.

Capturing and trying Bin Laden is risky. because the Truth might come out in a manner that wouild be difficult for the West to handle.




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[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

Tell us your beliefs about Thermite.

I don't have "beliefs" about thermite ... I have the proven established facts !!!

Firstly ... thermite is NOT an explosive ... it is an INCENDIARY.

Thermite CANNOT explode ... it is a powder mixture that undergoes a violent chemical reaction ... that can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small target for a short period of time.

But its reaction is chaotic and slightly unpredictable ... and can burn in ONE direction only ... DOWNWARDS ... driven by gravity.

lt makes an ugly HOLE with molten metal drips/blobs ... it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for it to burn sideways.

It's MOST useful application is as a military INCENDIARY ... for example a thermite 'grenade' placed on the bonnet of a vehicle would burn DOWN through down the engine block, thereby damaging it severely.

Thermite NEEDS another primary charge to set it off.

Therefore, thermite would have reacted IMMEDIATELY upon the airplanes impact.

Thermite burns itself OUT in seconds.

Therefore, there is NO such thing in reality as left-over thermite.

Thermite can NOT cut columns without large canisters all AROUND the columns.

Therefore ... HIGHLY visible.

The amount of Thermite needed to collapse the tower would have been massive ... amounting to TONS.

Explosives do NOT produce pools of molten metal.

Furthermore ... the ABSENCE of Aluminum Oxide and Barium Nitrate dis-proves the presence of Thermite.

Two of the MAIN BY-PRODUCTS of Themate/Thermite are ALUMINIUM OXIDE (41%) and BARIUM NITRATE (29%).

In those EXACT signature quantities ...

Both are UNIQUE to Themate/Thermite and ZERO trace of either of these elements was found at ANY 9/11 site ... even Professor Jones stated there was NONE found !!!

911guide - * Steven Jones & Thermite - Are They Worth Your Time?

Thermite and Sulfer- Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition

What scientist wants to lose his job telling the truth that no one wants to hear?

So scientists whom work in OTHER COUNTRIES are scared of losing jobs how ... especially in those countries not exactly friendly to the US ... WHY aren't they speaking up !!!

WHY aren't engineers worried about all these established laws violated ... especially considering the drive to build ever taller, more unusual buildings ...

Don't you think in all plain, old fashioned common sense that they would have problems had they been fed bogus science and engineering, which somehow broke or violated the already ESTABLISHED laws of physics and principles of engineering ???

Burj Dubai ...

Petronas Towers ...

Taipei 101 ...

If thermite was used, who used it? Do you really want to know? Have you ever heard of a False Flag incident?

Nope don't need to know ... because simply put ... there was no thermite !!!

Yup ... and having had a career in the military I can honestly say that every single day of every single year, there is, at some point, in someplace there are excercises that imagine/envisage all sorts of scenarios !!!

Plausible AND implausible ... just like Firefighters train for situations they may NEVER have to come across.

Seriously ... so what ???

Bin Laden is a structural engineer, and he does not believe his planes brought down the Twin Towers.

Bin Laden was NOT a structural engineer ... he studied economics and business at King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah.

There have been some UNVERIFIED claims that he held a CIVIL engineering degree ... but they have NEVER been proven.

Capturing and trying Bin Laden is risky. because the Truth might come out in a manner that wouild be difficult for the West to handle.

Now, the rest of your post is just rubbish ... and shows measure of a youthful kind of thinking.

WHY would/could the "West" not handle truth ... mature, rational, logical adults know and accept the vagaries and faults of humanity ... politicians and those in positions of power are STILL just (like us) human beings ... with all the petty flaws, faults, jealousies and caprice that go hand-in-hand with that !!!

Machinations and plots have been around as long as we have trod this Earth ... so what's so scary ???

Gladiator I am taking it that you are still quite young ... the niavety of your writing style and, dare I say it, rather simplistic grasp of politics seems to indicate so ... there is a lot more to the world than your wholly US-centric simplified one !!!

By telling me to look ONLY into conspiracy theories it shows an immaturity of an analytical investigative thought process ... why didn't you suggest the debunking sites as well ... for after all, as in a court of law, you can ONLY, in all honesty, make a valid and legitimate decision when you have looked fully into BOTH sides of the arguments and researched BOTH sets of evidence.

One-sided research is exactly that !!!

Well Gladiator ... I have looked into BOTH sets of claims ... and the proper legitimate solid evidence comes down squarely on the side of what you erroneously call the "official" one !!!

REAL facts are stubborn things dear boy, and until some fictional and/or delusional "Ministry of Truth" burns ALL the old science reference books, it is very hard for twoofs to spin their psuedoscience or fool the educated !!!

Sorry, Gladiator but after having spent a mind-numbing couple of hours reading through your linked threads I must say that the level of your ignorance is truly something to behold.

Only youth can explain an arrogance / ignorance ratio as high as this !!!

Sorry ... :3oops:

 

[Gladiator]

"Many conspiracy theorists also claim, that there was molten material underneath the piles for weeks or even months, which is proof of thermite being used. The problem with thermite is that it tends to burn all at once. The thermite reaction is characterized by its tendency to burn completely. So, if it was thermite, why would it still be burning months afterward? And in such enormous quantities?"

Was molten metal found for weeks after 911?

The Molten metal would have been insulated, after the Thermite burned, and melted the metal, at 25.000 F.

There is no discussion of trying to create a shape charge of tehrmite to cut a beam at a 60 Degree Angle.

A heavy, bulky casting mold around the shape charge would work best. But are there other materials that would be sufficient to cut a steel beam at an angle, using Thermite?

911guide - * Steven Jones & Thermite - Are They Worth Your Time?


I have read these rebuttals before, but reamin unconvinced. There is too much eyewitness accounts of finding molten metal. in the rubble.

No proof is offered that Thermite cannot cut a steel beam, and there is testimony that some of the charges were set off slightly before the planes struck.

Why is it important that thermite be investigated at this time? The War is either well established or winding down. Saddam Hussein was a nuissance.

Maybe you have used thermite, and have tried to cut a steel beam with Thermite, and find it difficult to cut a beam. There are other incendiary materials that might work to cut beams at an angle, and leave metal molten for weeks, insulated by rubble.

The reason the stock holders of the Twin Towers were happy to see the Towers come down was because they were being required to remove all the asbestos from the Twin Towers. So Asbestos is an ecellent insulator, and that is why the pools of steel remained hot and molten for weeks.



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[Gladiator]

Since many of the vertical support beams were a uniform size, maybe 16 Inches, two U shaped shape charges could have been used, one for the upper angle cut, and one for the lower angel cut. Then one straight bar, along each side, extending from the top of the upper inside U, extending to the bottom of the lower inside U.

Three igniters could have been used, for each cut, or one igniter with connecting incendiary material between the sides and U's.



Thermite and the WTC Collapses


Photos of Twin Tower beams cut by shape charges.

Did nano-thermite take down the WTC? - RT


Videos of Various types of Thermite Reactions

Amazing Rust.com - Thermite Pictures & Videos


Photos of fireballs at points where Twin Tower steel beams were cut

http://www.rense.com/general86/therm.htm



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[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

"Many conspiracy theorists also claim, that there was molten material underneath the piles for weeks or even months, which is proof of thermite being used. The problem with thermite is that it tends to burn all at once. The thermite reaction is characterized by its tendency to burn completely. So, if it was thermite, why would it still be burning months afterward? And in such enormous quantities?"

Was molten metal found for weeks after 911?

The Molten metal would have been insulated, after the Thermite burned, and melted the metal, at 25.000 F.

Hi again Gladiator ... why do you "believe" conspiracy theorists ... were they there, do they actually know what they are talking about, ???

Yes ... thermite combusts COMPLETELY.

Once the reaction starts NOTHING on Earth can stop it ... so whatever amount is reacted is ALL used up ... leaving nothing behind but its signature BY-PRODUCTS of ALUMINIUM OXIDE @41% and BARIUM NITRATE @29% !!!

Thermite does NOT produce pools of metal ... same goes for explosives !!!

These are inescapable proven, established, accepted, demonstrable FACTS ... they are carved in stone ... and no amount of psusedoscience by conspiracy theorists can change that !!!

But I can understand why the untutored believe it so ... it is "easy" to fool people whom do not know these things ... but to people whom have experience and expertise in these same things ... it is impossible to fool them !!!

The REAL experts DO know what they are talking about as opposed to the self-appointed non-experts that inhabit most conspiracy sites, forums and blogs.

So Gladiator, what makes you think that molten material is proof of thermite ???

What makes you think it was in fact molten "metal" found weeks later ???

There is no discussion of trying to create a shape charge of tehrmite to cut a beam at a 60 Degree Angle.

A heavy, bulky casting mold around the shape charge would work best. But are there other materials that would be sufficient to cut a steel beam at an angle, using Thermite?

There is no discussion ... because until you can get gravity to work sideways ... it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for thermite to cut at ANY angle !!!

Nothing you can dream up or say can change that simply physical reality !!!

Stop listening to conspiracy sites ... they lie !!!

It truly is that simple !!!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR6K90cR8Lg"]YouTube- Thermite weld[/ame]

Even ONE THOUSAND POUNDS of thermite could NOT totally destroy or cut through just ONE car roof !!!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPAYZMzGMwQ"]YouTube- Mythbusters Toast 1/2 Ton of Thermite[/ame]

Even a thermite grenade couldn't make a dent in the hinge of a small safe ...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiRJj2oRWnM"]YouTube- Thermite Grenade[/ame]

So what makes you think that thermite would ever be able to cut through hundreds of steel columns ???

I have read these rebuttals before, but reamin unconvinced. There is too much eyewitness accounts of finding molten metal. in the rubble.

No proof is offered that Thermite cannot cut a steel beam, and there is testimony that some of the charges were set off slightly before the planes struck.

Why is it important that thermite be investigated at this time? The War is either well established or winding down. Saddam Hussein was a nuissance.

EYEWTINESS testimony ... sorry are you for real ???

How can you (or anyone else) tell by visual inspection whether it was, indeed, metal molten steel, aluminium, brass, copper or otherwise ???

It is simply NOT possible to identify the type of material simply by "looking" at a photo or video ...

Or tell with an untrained eye whether it is molten metal ... never mind what type ...

Don't forget that people use metaphors and similies to describe things ... they will call something vaguely shiny "steel" ... doesn't mean it actually "is" steel !!!

Also don't forget that in the MELEE of rubble it would be highly unlikely that any particular metal would remain pure ... it would be mixed and contaminated with some of the thousands of other elements, biological too, that were in the buildings.

Any "metal" found in such circumstamces would NOT behave, react or LOOK like it would in the controlled enviroment of a steel mill or foundry !!!

Gladiator, anyone doing REAL material analysis and contamination identification, have to USE all sorts of expensive EQUIPMENT to identify molten metals ... such as POLARIZED LIGHT MICROSCOPY ... to identify the material by size, morphology and behavior under polarized light.

And then even more sophisticated equipment like either a FOURIER-TRANSFORM INFRARED SPECTROSCOPY or a SCANNING ELECTRON MICROSCOPE equipped with ENERGY-DISPERSIVE X-RAY analysis to confirm wheter it is indeed molten "steel".

So WHY is the untutored, unknowledgeable testimony of traumatised eyewitnesses any more valid to you ???

However, WHATEVER molten metals there WERE available were very likely MIXED with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (furniture, carpets, drywall partitions, computers, etc, etc, etc ... sadly even people) making the mixture extremely UNPURE ... as well as RAISING the temperature at which any particular metal weakens or melts at ... so it is a moot point really !!!

As for WHY the rubble remained so hot for so long ... its all just thermodynamics ... look up Fouriers Law ... or ask a Firefighter about the insulating qualities of rubble ...or ask a gardener about the heat-generating qualities of COMPOST.

"Compost" I hear you ask ... but consider that compost generates its own heat from INSULATION alone ... I repeat compost making generates its OWN heat from INSULATION alone ... a healthy compost heap CAN reach temperatures of 140 degrees Fahrenheit (60 degrees Celsius) at it's centre ... slightly off-topic but still a good example of how efficient INSULATION can CONSERVE and MAINTAIN and INCREASE heat by preventing it from ESCAPING !!!

Is it "possible" that molten steel was present in the WTC debris pile due to intense heat ???

Absolutely !!!

Does it prove thermite ???

No ... it DEBUNKS thermite !!!

Maybe you have used thermite, and have tried to cut a steel beam with Thermite, and find it difficult to cut a beam. There are other incendiary materials that might work to cut beams at an angle, and leave metal molten for weeks, insulated by rubble.

Now I just know that you get this angled cuts of steel beams stuff from the CROPPED photographs used by conspiracy sites ...

Why do conspiracy sites NEVER link the UNCROPPED photograph of the angle cut ... a photograph which CLEARLY shows an IRONWORKER in the rubble ... so that angle cut was made as part of the CLEAN-UP operation ... it had NOTHING to do with the collapse or proof of thermite either !!!

http://file045a.bebo.com/8/original/2008/03/20/10/4513101891a7198719886o.jpg

What is so difficult to believe that all those angle cuts were made DURING clean up ... there are plenty of photographs and video and direct testimony from ironworkers freely and easily available ... so why do you prefer(again) to accept nonsense from people whom weren't there and whom doctor/crop photographs to dishonestly make it seem like something else ???

Why ???

The reason the stock holders of the Twin Towers were happy to see the Towers come down was because they were being required to remove all the asbestos from the Twin Towers. So Asbestos is an ecellent insulator, and that is why the pools of steel remained hot and molten for weeks.

And which shareholders and owners would that be ???

 

[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

Since many of the vertical support beams were a uniform size, maybe 16 Inches, two U shaped shape charges could have been used, one for the upper angle cut, and one for the lower angel cut. Then one straight bar, along each side, extending from the top of the upper inside U, extending to the bottom of the lower inside U.

Three igniters could have been used, for each cut, or one igniter with connecting incendiary material between the sides and U's.

This is obviously just your "guess" ... got any physical proof that shaped charges of thermite exist in the real world ???

Why do you not understand that "possibilities" are NOT he same thing as "probabilities" ???

Is it possible that myself, in cahoots with the Ben Nevis Mountain Rescue guys, after sailing across the Atlantic, climbed the Towers under the cover of darkness planting explosives disguised as haggis and heather ...

Is it possible ... yes ...

Is it probable ... not in a gizillion years !!!

~~~~~~~~~~

Now I just loved you linking those idiots at whatreallyhappened ... whom in the very first words on the screen demonstrated that they don't know what they are talking about ...

This eight ton steel I-beam is six inches thick. It was selected to be preserved for future generations for the near perfect horseshoe bend ... it bent without almost a single crack in it. It takes thousands of degrees to bend steel like this.

Crud ... go ask a BLACKSMITH ... go ask an actual steel manufacturer like CORUS (non US) about COLD/WARM/HOT FORGING techniques !!!

Look up SHERMANS NECKTIES ... where Union soldiers destroyed Confererate train tracks by heating them up and wrapping them around trees in nothing more than ordinary open-air fires in 1864 !!!

Sherman's Neckties

But I just loved the thermite videos from AmazingRust ... did you notice how in all the videos the thermite reacted downwards too ... and only downwards !!!

Funny that ...


As for rense ... well least said about that bunch of clowns the better !!!

 

[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

Now I know Gladiator that you have doubts about 9/11 ... and need to find some answers ...

But WHY are you looking for answers from those whom were either NOT actually present at any part of 9/11 as eyewitnesses or participants or have the needed relevant expertise and experience to explain it ???

WHY are you looking for answers from those the LEAST qualified to tell you ???

Conspiracy sites love to "cherry-pick" quotes from the FDNY as support for their version ... but those same FULL testimonies from the Firefighters completely debunk any conspiracy claim.

Those FULL and UNEDITED testimonies are freely and easily available.

Read them ... for at the end of the day Gladiator these guys are the real deal.

Tell you what Gladiator ... since you are obviously not convinced here, why dont you take this little challenge ... it is quite simple.

Go to your local university and find a professor of either engineering or physics ... or both ... and present him/her/them with what to you is incontorvertialble evidence and ask them for their professional judgements and opinions.

Now considering that you find the "official" view to be faulty ... you MUST explain fully why you are not prepared to consider expert testimony in favour of the untutored lay view you have obviously gleened from conspiracy sites.

We do have experts for reasons ... don't we ???

So you must be able to fully justify why you prefer the non-expert view !!!

 

[Gladiator]

Why are there fireballs and smoke coming out the middle floors in video clips of the Twin Towers?

What are all the formulas for all the incendiary materials, that will cust steel beams, and what are the residue signatures of each?

Why do the official reports neglect to mention the molten steel found inthe WTC rubble?

Why are there photos of vertical strucural beams falling away from a tower, with the ends cut fairly cleanly?

If somebody did assist W to garner public suppot to get a US Congressional vote to invade Iraq, and British Parliment, who might it have been?

Who really cares?

When facts are inconvenient, humans are good at Denial, and put the inconvenient facts ot of mind.




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[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

Why are there fireballs and smoke coming out the middle floors in video clips of the Twin Towers?

Are you referring to what Truthers like to call "squibs" ... come on Gladiator think about it for a minute with some simple common sense.

The Towers were NOT solid objects like trees ... they were (in common with all buildings) filled mostly with AIR.

Look around the room you are in ... guess what, over 90% of it is air !!!

Now do you understand anything about how air behaves within that space ... Boyle's Law ... which relates to gases ... air is a gas.

And that air reacts to changes, such as pressure in defined and measurable ways ...

Air pressure is the FORCE exerted by the WEIGHT of a COLUMN of AIR above a particular location.

A column of air 1 SQUARE INCH measured from sea level to the top of the atmosphere would weigh approximately 14.7 POUNDS.

Making I standard atmosphere (1atm) = 14.7 pounds per square inch (14.7 psi)

(Have you ever felt your ears POP, say in an aircraft ... that is because of a CHANGE in that air PRESSURE)

Now, pressure x volume is a CONSTANT ... so if you HALVE the volume, you DOUBLE the pressure.

Cram twice as much air into one floor as was initially there and you will achieve a pressure of 2atm = 29.4psi which is therefore equal to 14.7psi of OVERPRESSURE ... and so forth !!!

The COMPRESSION caused by the descending MASS of the air contained in the Towers was more than sufficient to create OVERPRESSURE in individual floors ... channelled out through transfer lobbies, open doors, etc.

Now, clearly, as the towers were COLLAPSING, the VOLUME was DECREASING and if the volume decreases, then Boyle’s Law states the PRESSURE must INCREASE ...

Ergo anything in between will get shoved out of the way ... think of it as a giant syringe !!!

The so-called "squibs" were merely debris mixed with AIR being pushed out by the INCREASING pressure.

So, simplistically put, the Tower cores collapsing acted like giant plungers in a syringe ... squeesing the air into smaller spaces and because of the STAGGERED arrangement of elevators, stairwells and transfer points ... then that air escaped where it could ...

Now, who knows how many doors were open ... so air would escape easier through some and not others.

See ... simple !!!

What are all the formulas for all the incendiary materials, that will cust steel beams, and what are the residue signatures of each?

Come on think about this too ... just because INGREDIENTS were found that were indicative of thermite ... does NOT mean it was only thermite !!!

Guess what Gladiator ... chemistry is a multi-application field ... where the SAME ingredients can be found in MULTIPLE formulae !!!

If you have a fire in your garage in the debris you will find traces which will have the same chemical signatures as found in many different explosive or dangerous elements.

Guess what Gladiator ... those are all base ingredients in things like BLEACH, FERTILIZER, PAINT THINNER and ALL the other everyday ordinary items found in everyday ordinary sheds and garages.

So, YOU Gladiator, in the innocence of your garage, will have many of the ingredients for manufacturing explosive or incendiary devices ... does that automatically mean you were making bombs ???

Of course not !!!

Just because there were traces found that share the make-up of thermite is in NO way proof that thermite was used ... those traces could just as easily come from ANY one of the other thousands of chemical mixtures available.

And, like previously mentioned, the FACT that the BY-PRODUCTS, in their SIGNATURE amounts, of thermite WERE NOT FOUND is indicative of ZERO thermite !!!

Stop thinking so one-dimentionally ...:doh

Why do the official reports neglect to mention the molten steel found inthe WTC rubble?

Because there wasn't any ???

WHY would molten metal/steel be important anyway ... WHAT exactly would that prove ???

That it got really, really hot in the rubble pile ... we already know that !!!

And don't forget that steel was not the ONLY metal that would make up the buildings ... there are MANY metals that melt at far lower temperatures than steel ... so why couldnt "molten metal" be any conglomerate mixture of some of these other metals too ???

Why are there photos of vertical strucural beams falling away from a tower, with the ends cut fairly cleanly?

Come on now ... how can you tell from a few blurry photographs and video that there were, in fact, clean cuts.

Images taken from a distance will FORESHORTEN ... which give a false perspective with little real detail

Perspective and scale ... it is IMPOSSIBLE for the human eye to see DETAIL from a distance !!!

Next you'll be on about the eyewitness whom claimed he saw no windows on the plane ...

Reality check ... that guy was viewing nearly TWO MILES AWAY !!!

Why do you seem to need IMAX quality imagery of what was an unprecedented live, chaotic, dynamic, ever-changing event ... people are NOT standing around with hi-speed/hi-res media equipment ... they filmed it on ordinary mobile phone cameras, tourists with ordinary video ???

If somebody did assist W to garner public suppot to get a US Congressional vote to invade Iraq, and British Parliment, who might it have been?

So that's why there were, and are, HUGE anti-war protests, demonstrations and campaining !!!

Who really cares?

You do ... but your worrying about a fantasy.

There are far more immediate and real things you should be spending your time, effort and energy on.

Gladiator, I have zero reason to lie to you about ANY of this ... hell, I am not even an American citizen, and have never lived there ... but I am someone with the life experience and wisdom of a grand-mother whom has had a career which furnished me with the knowledge of real science, so can easily spot the junk spouted by conspiracy sites for what it is ... JUNK !!!

When facts are inconvenient, humans are good at Denial, and put the inconvenient facts ot of mind.

Some FACTS are carved in stone ... so the denial comes mostly from conspiracy theorists.

Seriously just HOW many different, sometimes mutually inexclusive, theories are there out there ... there had been the exact same stuff spouted for YEARS ... re-hashed time and time again ... and yet have NEVER come to pass ???

Example Nibiru ... been "claimed" to be real and immediate at least three times now ...

~~~~~~~~~~

Gladiator as many Truthers do they always tell you to look for the money trail ... well do that for the conspiracy sites and compare them to the debunking sites.

911guide - Truth Movement Merchandise

And do you know what stands out ... the DEBUNKING sites seem to be able to function and put forward their message WITHOUT recourse to selling stuff or donate buttons !!!

WTF has a WALL CLOCK or a DOG BOWL got to do with a quest for truth ???

Wall Clock > Pilotsfor911truth.org : pilotsfor911truth.org gear

Large Pet Bowl > Pilotsfor911truth.org : pilotsfor911truth.org gear

(18 quid for a dog bowl ... now that's expensive :thumbdown)

So HOW can debunking sites manage NOT to have the hard sell ... and the conspiracy/twoofie ones can't ???

 

[Gladiator]

Thanks for the time to attempt to debunk my beliefs.

I primarily post to further my understanding of situations, and expose my ideas to challenge and criticism.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that the Twin Towers had some help, besides the planes, to fall. There are just too many unanswered questions for me to believe, with cetainty, that W had no help.

Many other wars have been contrived,to one extent or another.

For military men, and their families, it is probably better to believe that W had no help, and to believe that Bin Laden's planes caused the towers to fall. Military families of the West, would probably be at cross-purposes, to delve into the possiblities of a conspiriacy involving 9-11. So I thank you for the debate, but I will bow out, thanking you, and many other service men, women and familes, for their service in defending Western Values.


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[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

You are more than welcome Gladiator, but I will just say that in future when you have doubts about anything and are looking for answers, please do not only look at conspiracy sites.

When looking for information on any subject it is just as important to find stuff that counters your assertion as it is stuff that confirms it !!!

If nothing else, it shows you where people will try to find fault.

And military personnel are not so niave as not to see and understand the machinations of government, after all they live daily with the realities of decisions made in their name and often have to cope with sub-standard or the wrong equipment ... and many lose lives due to it.

Here in the UK we also have a volunteer service, no conscription, I was in the RAF, with friends and some family still serving ... so I know at first hand how often there is failure to provide suitable equipment and how many services have been reduced or "downsized" in some stupid money-saving drive by those with zero understanding of the needs the military, usually due to having never had been in service !!!

You should hear how politicians and those in power are spoken about ... there is NO slavish mindless following of their words !!!

But orders are orders and whether or not you believe or agree with them you have to follow.

Thank you too Gladiator, and I hope that you find what you are looking for, and some peace and happiness in this world.

Life is too short to spend it chasing mostly non-existant conspiracy !!!

So live, laugh and love instead ... oh! and MERRY CHRISTMAS XXXX

Desiderata