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The New Atheism

watsup

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Below is an explanatory of the "New Atheism" of Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and Dennett for BOTH atheists and "believers" to consider. Yes, not only "believers" have some serious debate with them, but also many atheists have felt that they were too "what?" with their atheism.

Perhaps they were just too OUTSPOKEN. Perhaps there are still a lot of atheists who feel that they should "stay in the closet" rather than being as outspoken as these four, especially in their tendency to be quite direct and quite hard on established religion.

"The New Atheists are authors of early twenty-first century books promoting atheism. These authors include Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, and Christopher Hitchens. The “New Atheist” label for these critics of religion and religious belief emerged out of journalistic commentary on the contents and impacts of their books. A standard observation is that New Atheist authors exhibit an unusually high level of confidence in their views. Reviewers have noted that these authors tend to be motivated by a sense of moral concern and even outrage about the effects of religious beliefs on the global scene. It is difficult to identify anything philosophically unprecedented in their positions and arguments, but the New Atheists have provoked considerable controversy with their body of work.

In spite of their different approaches and occupations (only Dennett is a professional philosopher), the New Atheists tend to share a general set of assumptions and viewpoints. These positions constitute the background theoretical framework that is known as the New Atheism. The framework has a metaphysical component, an epistemological component, and an ethical component. Regarding the metaphysical component, the New Atheist authors share the central belief that there is no supernatural or divine reality of any kind. The epistemological component is their common claim that religious belief is irrational. The moral component is the assumption that there is a universal and objective secular moral standard. This moral component sets them apart from other prominent historical atheists such as Nietzsche and Sartre, and it plays a pivotal role in their arguments because it is used to conclude that religion is bad in various ways, although Dennett is more reserved than the other three.

The New Atheists make substantial use of the natural sciences in both their criticisms of theistic belief and in their proposed explanations of its origin and evolution. They draw on science for recommended alternatives to religion. They believe empirical science is the only (or at least the best) basis for genuine knowledge of the world, and they insist that a belief can be epistemically justified only if it is based on adequate evidence. Their conclusion is that science fails to show that there is a God and even supports the claim that such a being probably does not exist. What science will show about religious belief, they claim, is that this belief can be explained as a product of biological evolution. Moreover, they think that it is possible to live a satisfying non-religious life on the basis of secular morals and scientific discoveries."

 
As a follow-on question, should atheists continue to be "in the closet" because of the potentially severe backlash from the public in general, especially where there is a somewhat radicalized right-wing emphasis on religion as in the United States?
Confession: I am an in-the-closet atheist. None of my immediate neighbors know that I am such, nor do I openly discuss it with my Catholic brother and sister relatives. My daughter has a great suspicion that I am, but we don't discuss it either. We basically raised her without going to church, but without openly expressing a dislike of church either.
So I discuss my atheist viewpoints here in an anonymous forum.

So--are YOU an in-the-closet atheist? Should we not thank the four New Atheists for being on the front line of exposing our viewpoints to the world at large?
 
My family knows about my atheist views, and have no problem with it, at least outwardly. I don't discuss religion with neighbors and friends for the most part, although a some of my friends know. Both of my ex wives are catholic but do not attend services regularly, and my youngest daughter is being baptized Sunday Nov. 7th at the age of 35. If I am at a friends house for dinner I do not pretend to pray, but sit silently while they say grace. Although I am not an in the closet atheist, I am not an in your face atheist, I can have respect for others beliefs, just as I expect them to respect mine.
 
I'm not an atheist.
I am an agnostic.

I am not "in the closet", because I'm completely unabashed by it.

I will tell anyone including those in my family that religion just DOES NOT COMPUTE in my brain. I do not have that in me.

When people start babbling about the holy spirit, and all such assorted stuff, to me it sounds completely loony. I cant even begin to take it seriously.I believe, actually, that religion is evil. very evil. Ewwww.

Now spirituality is a different matter, and has very little to do with religion.

If I am at someones house and they want to say grace, I have no problem with that. I'll bow my head and whatever. I might thank the Universe for the blessings of another meal. And of being well enough to be able to eat it.

But no religion, no "god", none of that. Just keep that away from me.
 
Below is an explanatory of the "New Atheism" of Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and Dennett for BOTH atheists and "believers" to consider...

New Atheism doesn't exist. The question on whether you're an Atheist hasn't changed in the millennia that humans have been worshipping gods.
Are you convinced there is a god(s) ?
If yes, you are a theist

If no, you are an Atheist (though the definition of Agnostic blurs this).

...the New Atheists tend to share a general set of assumptions and viewpoints.

What "assumptions" ?

...the New Atheist authors share the central belief that there is no supernatural or divine reality of any kind.

Not true
Dawkins himself in his book "The God Delusion" ranks the degrees of certainty for a god(s) as 1-7 (with 1 being absolutely certain there is a god, and 7 being absolutely there isn't)
He rates himself as a "6".

...the epistemological component is their common claim that religious belief is irrational.

No it's not.
When and where have Atheists said this (though some Atheists might say there is no god, most do not take this absolute position.

The moral component is the assumption that there is a universal and objective secular moral standard.

No, there is no such assumption
Morality is NOT standard or objective.

The New Atheists...believe empirical science is the only (or at least the best) basis for genuine knowledge of the world...

And they're right.

...their conclusion is that science fails to show that there is a God and even supports the claim that such a being probably does not exist.

No, scientists do NOT use science in supernatural studies
QED: Science can neither prove or disprove the existence of a god or gods.

...they claim, is that this belief can be explained as a product of biological evolution.

No, we might never understand what caused the universe to exist or how life started. But we have way more evidence than the existence of a god.

Moreover, they think that it is possible to live a satisfying non-religious life on the basis of secular morals and scientific discoveries.

Because it is

Whereas religion corrupts and poisons lives.
 
Not all atheists are that happy with the "New Atheism":

"Since its emergence during the middle of the previous decade the “new atheism” has attracted a great deal of media and scholarly attention. But one central question has yet to be satisfactorily addressed—namely what, if anything, is genuinely new about “new atheism”? Critics of new atheism maintain that it offers nothing more than a repackaging of age-old philosophical arguments combined with an intolerant, dogmatic and aggressively anti-religious rhetoric (for example, Beattie, 2008; Haught, 2008; Lennox, 2011), and many new atheists themselves contend that they are merely following in the well-worn footsteps of unbelievers from earlier times (for example, Grayling, 2011; Cline, 2015). "


"Despite the novelty of the “new atheist” label, disentangling new atheism from the wider non-religious population is no easy task. Atheists often subscribe to a number of overlapping identity markers (such as: “agnostic”, “humanist”, “freethinker”, “skeptic”, “secularist” and so on), and there is no consensus on what “new atheism” actually is."

"The construction and subsequent popularisation of the label “new atheism”, then, did not stem from a disinterested attempt at classifying a new form of non-religious thought, but was part of a politically motivated campaign to discredit and delegitimise the views of leading atheist advocates. The principal strategy here was to define a particular group of atheists as being “new”, so that they could then be denounced for having nothing genuinely new to offer."
 
"The New Atheism movement is receiving a powerful attack from another side as well — the politics implicit in their worldview. Two books published this year exemplify this critique, in which militant atheism is seen as an anti-progressive “secular fundamentalism.” C.J. Werleman, in The New Atheist Threat: The Dangerous Rise of Secular Extremists, himself formerly a militant atheist, describes the New Atheists’ uncritical devotion to science, their childish understanding of religion, their extreme Islamophobia, and intolerance of cultural diversity."

 
We have to keep in mind that atheism is a religious belief. Only agnostics can claim not to be religious.
 
We have to keep in mind that atheism is a religious belief. Only agnostics can claim not to be religious.

It makes me laugh when someone who professes to be a religious believer uses that belief as an insult to atheists.
 
What I find amusing is that the vast majority of people even talking about 'the new atheism' are christians. Even that blog that mentioned a couple of books is by a professor of theology at oxford.
 
As a follow-on question, should atheists continue to be "in the closet" because of the potentially severe backlash from the public in general, especially where there is a somewhat radicalized right-wing emphasis on religion as in the United States?
Confession: I am an in-the-closet atheist. None of my immediate neighbors know that I am such, nor do I openly discuss it with my Catholic brother and sister relatives. My daughter has a great suspicion that I am, but we don't discuss it either. We basically raised her without going to church, but without openly expressing a dislike of church either.
So I discuss my atheist viewpoints here in an anonymous forum.

So--are YOU an in-the-closet atheist? Should we not thank the four New Atheists for being on the front line of exposing our viewpoints to the world at large?
I'm an out of the closet atheist. Religion is no more than a leftover from mankind's infancy. People need to grow up. Christianity is an insult to human intelligence
 
We have to keep in mind that atheism is a religious belief. Only agnostics can claim not to be religious.

What exactly are you trying to point out by this statement?


First definition of religious is: of or relating to religion

First, agnosticism would also be covered by that, right?
Second, and so?
 
Agnostics ARE, for the most part, atheists, whether they care to admit it or not.

Well, depends on how you define these terms.

I define atheism as a lack of OR contrary belief in a God or set of gods. Simply not believing in a God or set of gods, doesn't mean that you believe they cannot possibly exist. But "atheism" covers both. I separate the two by calling simple disbelief, "weak atheism" and the belief that they cannot exist, "strong atheism".
Theism is the belief in a God or set of gods.

Agnosticism is the lack of knowledge of a God or set of gods.
Gnosticism is the claim of knowledge of a God or set of gods.

Atheism and theism have to do with belief. Agnosticism and gnosticism have to do with knowledge.

Theists who claim to believe by faith, are agnostics.
Atheists who do not claim to know that there cannot be a God or set of gods, are agnostics.

So, they are completely separate terms talking about separate ideas.
 
We have to keep in mind that atheism is a religious belief. Only agnostics can claim not to be religious.
I'm gonna need an explanation for this one.
 
IMO, "the new atheists" are kind of like political pundits. They say some crap...and some of it has value. But, then they run out of crap that is interesting and relevant to say...so they say bombastic things to keep in the public eye and keep relevant. Then they truly lose me.

I am what they call a "weak atheist". I try to remain open to belief, but not easily fooled. I don't think that religion is the root of all evil. It is, like any belief system, something that can be used for good or ill. I will say that I think religion is dangerous because it can MOTIVATE people easily to do horrible things...even though the belief system itself, might be beneficial.
 
Below is an explanatory of the "New Atheism" of Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and Dennett for BOTH atheists and "believers" to consider. Yes, not only "believers" have some serious debate with them, but also many atheists have felt that they were too "what?" with their atheism.

Perhaps they were just too OUTSPOKEN. Perhaps there are still a lot of atheists who feel that they should "stay in the closet" rather than being as outspoken as these four, especially in their tendency to be quite direct and quite hard on established religion.
I think we should be very clear that this is about "New Atheism", not "new atheism". This is just a simple label for a small group of people who happened to gain a high profile for a while. The weren't really saying anything new (though maybe newly mainstream), just presenting a particular set of arguments in particular ways.

In general, I think there is a world of difference between "in the closet" and being so direct and outspoken, a place the vast majority of people, believers or not, sit in. Just like the "New Atheists", there is a minority of highly outspoken people on the theistic side too, often presenting a lot of very similar arguments for all that they're obviously coming from the opposite direction. I've personally not a lot of time for any of them.

I don't see the fundamentals of belief, or even general day-to-day religious practice as especially problematic or noteworthy. Occasionally they do have more significant impact and those specific elements are worthy of attention. Part of the issue there is that the specific problematic aspects are often unjustly lumped together with the wider mainstreams.
 
No it's not. That's a ridiculous statement. Is "not stamp collecting" a hobby?
Not going to try to explain what goes on in anyone's head, but this strikes me as a bad analogy. "Not stamp collecting" has zero interest, zero followers, books, websites, etc. - namely because it (the lack of not collecting) doesn't exist. It's a common action with zero common human conception of any antithetical position.

I think a better analogy would be a lack of belief that alien life exists, or something along those lines.
 
Not going to try to explain what goes on in anyone's head, but this strikes me as a bad analogy. "Not stamp collecting" has zero interest, zero followers, books, websites, etc. - namely because it (the lack of not collecting) doesn't exist. It's a common action with zero common human conception of any antithetical position.

I think a better analogy would be a lack of belief that alien life exists, or something along those lines.

The point of the analogy is to use a different verb, and to illustrate the huge difference between not believing a proposition ("I do not believe in a god"), and believing the opposite of the proposition ("I believe there is not a god.")

In the theism/atheism dichotomy, the verb is "believe." Theists believe (in a god or gods). Atheists do not believe (although some also believe that there is not a god).

In the analogy, the verb is "collect.' Stamp collectors collect stamps. Non-stamp collectors do not collect stamps.
 
Well, depends on how you define these terms.

I define atheism as a lack of OR contrary belief in a God or set of gods. Simply not believing in a God or set of gods, doesn't mean that you believe they cannot possibly exist. But "atheism" covers both. I separate the two by calling simple disbelief, "weak atheism" and the belief that they cannot exist, "strong atheism".
Theism is the belief in a God or set of gods.

Agnosticism is the lack of knowledge of a God or set of gods.
Gnosticism is the claim of knowledge of a God or set of gods.

Atheism and theism have to do with belief. Agnosticism and gnosticism have to do with knowledge.

Theists who claim to believe by faith, are agnostics.
Atheists who do not claim to know that there cannot be a God or set of gods, are agnostics.

So, they are completely separate terms talking about separate ideas.

Yes, I understand that distinction, but in that framework, the statement "I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic" turns into a bit of a non sequitur.

And if "agnosticism" is simply a lack of knowledge, that would make EVERYONE an agnostic because, regardless of what everyone believes, nobody actually KNOWS. I don't think that's what most people mean when they say the are agnostic.
 
Yes, I understand that distinction, but in that framework, the statement "I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic" turns into a bit of a non sequitur.

And if "agnosticism" is simply a lack of knowledge, that would make EVERYONE an agnostic because, regardless of what everyone believes, nobody actually KNOWS. I don't think that's what most people mean when they say the are agnostic.

IMO, the distinction isn't one about what is actually known, but one claims to know.

There are believers that claim to know that a God or set of gods exist. They aren't agnostics.

There are believers that claim that it's impossible to know, but they believe anyway based on faith. They are agnostics.

Just as I don't question if someone actually believes in a God or set of gods for them to be a theist...I don't question if someone actually knows there to be a God or set of gods to be a gnostic.
 
IMO, the distinction isn't one about what is actually known, but one claims to know.

There are believers that claim to know that a God or set of gods exist. They aren't agnostics.

There are believers that claim that it's impossible to know, but they believe anyway based on faith. They are agnostics.

Just as I don't question if someone actually believes in a God or set of gods for them to be a theist...I don't question if someone actually knows there to be a God or set of gods to be a gnostic.
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