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The Myth of the Poverty Trap (1 Viewer)

Welfare destroyed the 2 parent family. Single mothers are the main cause of poverty and crime.

  • Single mothers are more likely to live in poverty than married couples or single fathers. (Mothers who share custody equally are able to improve their life, earn more money, and are happier. This leads to happier and more financial stability. Fewer mothers would be in poverty if they had time to improve their life, have time to update their skills, and have time for themselves and be less stressed out.)6
  • The proportion of single-parent households in a community predicts its rate of violent crime and burglary, but the community’s poverty level does not.6
  • The strongest predictor of whether a person will end up in prison is that they were raised by a single parent.7

Crime Linked to Growing Up in Single Mother Homes

In 1996, 70% of inmates in state juvenile detention centers serving long sentences were raised by single mothers.7

The absence of the father increases the daughters’ vulnerability to exploitation by those outside the family. Girls from homes without fathers are 6 times more likely to become pregnant as teenagers.9

That's not what I was disputing. The request was for a source that the treatment of Black Americans by Democrats was to intentionally create conditions for welfare and keep them that way. You wrote this:

Democrats knew welfare would make blacks dependent that was the plan. It destroyed the father in the family replacing it with the government. THat was Hillarys campaign fil called Julia. Democrats oppose parental rights and the plan was to replace the family with the government.

Where is that citation?
 
That's not what I was disputing. The request was for a source that the treatment of Black Americans by Democrats was to intentionally create conditions for welfare and keep them that way. You wrote this:



Where is that citation?
After all these years one would think they would have improved it by now. They like it just the way it is and the paper I gave you proves they knew. It gave democrats 100% control of blacks
 
Welfare destroyed the 2 parent family. Single mothers are the main cause of poverty and crime.

  • Single mothers are more likely to live in poverty than married couples or single fathers. (Mothers who share custody equally are able to improve their life, earn more money, and are happier. This leads to happier and more financial stability. Fewer mothers would be in poverty if they had time to improve their life, have time to update their skills, and have time for themselves and be less stressed out.)6
  • The proportion of single-parent households in a community predicts its rate of violent crime and burglary, but the community’s poverty level does not.6
  • The strongest predictor of whether a person will end up in prison is that they were raised by a single parent.7

Crime Linked to Growing Up in Single Mother Homes​

In 1996, 70% of inmates in state juvenile detention centers serving long sentences were raised by single mothers.7

The absence of the father increases the daughters’ vulnerability to exploitation by those outside the family. Girls from homes without fathers are 6 times more likely to become pregnant as teenagers.9
Actually its financial issues.

Raising families has become harder to do.
 
After all these years one would think they would have improved it by now. They like it just the way it is and the paper I gave you proves they knew. It gave democrats 100% control of blacks
Lol no black people are fully capable of voting in their worn interests. Republicans cant admit the southern strategy happened.

Workers are not gaining as much from their productivity than they used to because of republican policies and trickle down horseshit.
 
Lol no black people are fully capable of voting in their worn interests. Republicans cant admit the southern strategy happened.
Then why do they live in urban plantations run by democrats with the most crime poor schools and most poverty.
 
After all these years one would think they would have improved it by now. They like it just the way it is and the paper I gave you proves they knew. It gave democrats 100% control of blacks
White people are the largest recipients of any type of welfare benefits in the US. Especially white women that are single mothers 🤷‍♀️
 
Democrats knew welfare would make blacks dependent that was the plan. It destroyed the father in the family replacing it with the government. THat was Hillarys campaign fil called Julia. Democrats oppose parental rights and the plan was to replace the family with the government.
After all these years one would think they would have improved it by now.

Where's the citation proving your statements?

They like it just the way it is and the paper I gave you proves they knew.

Quote that from the paper.

It gave democrats 100% control of blacks

Citation please.
 
Then why do they live in urban plantations run by democrats with the most crime poor schools and most poverty.
Have you ever heard of ghettoization? Its a damn long history and has a **** ton more to do with urban planning that left them out, “free trade” with absolutely no requirements that would prevent the use of exploited near slave labor in developing countries, and over policing. Racial disparities in sentencing, in how many innocent black people get sentenced for crimes they didnt commit, and again wages not ****ing keeping up with productivity gains.

It aint ****ing welfare and i have enough respect for black people to know they are capable of voting for their own interests.

You know what welfare gives you? It ensures workers are no longer under the threat of starvation so they have a chance to bargain for higher wages. So Bezos cant treat workers like slaves.

But no keep parroting tired old republican talking points, im sure that will go about as well as trickle down lol!
 
“free trade” was only free for capital to move across borders, not labor.
 
Scandinavian countries consistently rank high in social mobility due to a combination of factors, including robust welfare states, strong educational systems, and inclusive economic policies. These countries prioritize equal access to quality education, work opportunities, and social support, creating a more level playing field for individuals regardless of their background.

Okay, but that totally ignores the point I made and which you quoted in this response.

Given the two countries above, do you think the results for the low income are better in Country A (which has greater "social mobility", as you are scoring) or Country B (which has lower "social mobility", as you are scoring)?


Conversely, here in the US, there has been gradual decrease in social mobility since the Reagan era due to less educational opportunities for the poor, the gutting of unions, stagnant wage growth for the working class- as almost all the GDP growth has gone to the top 5% of the country, and increasing income and wealth inequality.

This is a fun source, but the part you are citing is about Social Capital, which is different from Social Mobility (though Social Capital plays a role in enabling Social Mobility!).

Here is the part you are linking to:

The term “social capital” refers to the value that inheres in our connection to other people and to the institutions that we’ve created to achieve goals together. Having social capital means having strong relationships with people who can provide various benefits — advice, emotional support, job leads, financial assistance, a source of identity and self-worth, and the rest.
Unfortunately, social capital has been declining in America for decades. Perhaps the most important factor driving this trend is the breakdown of the two-parent family. The share of American children living with married parents fell from 86% in 1967 to 66% in 2022. Today, nearly half of children will live without one or both biological parents at some point before reaching adulthood....


Now, the breakup of the family is agreeably a major driver of what causes increased "stickiness" of low economic achievement on the bottom end of the income scale (again, strongly encourage Murray, who spends quite a lot of time talking about this), but it far from the entire story.
 
Actually, a heterogenous society is only a problem if the society is racist or has constructed other similar social heirarchies. India has the same problem as we do- except not with race but with their caste system.

As you highlight, we humans have multiple axes of heterogeneity that impact social trust - not just race. Here in America, for example, distrust / dislike / negative-stereotyping of people who vote for the other political party is replacing race as the number one way that we Americans hate and fear each other.

However, it is absolutely true that different cultures are marked by higher and lower trust, and that Scandinavian countries are noteworthy for being particularly high-trust societies.

Some cultural beliefs and practices are just more dysfunctional than others.

That is certainly true. Norms about Marriage, for example, or cultural assumptions about things like where one locates the Locus of Control, or rejection of violating social norms.


And the Scandinavians are not even THAT homogeneous.

"An important and useful way to understand nationalism and national identity is to approach such constructs as building upon a myth. Bouchard has offered a useful description ofnational mythsasaproductofadynamic configuration composed of seven elements (Bouchard 2014 pp. 4–5): 1) a structuring event or episode (“the anchor”); 2) an imprint, that is,a deep emotion left by“the anchor”; 3) a translation of the imprint into an ethos; 4) the construction of a narrative; 5) the sacralisation of the ethos; 6) the enactment of discursive and communicative strategies to dis-seminate the message; and 7) the intervention of social actors who con-struct and promote the myth."

It would be more accurate to say that until recently, the Nordic countries were quite homogeneous – almost everyone was native-born, spoke the same language and shared similar cultural values.

Here, for example, are Norway's numbers when looking at immigration:

1747263778331.png

Though, as I understand it, the wave of refugee-based immigrants that have come in have correlated with reduced trust in those areas.
 
Democrats knew welfare would make blacks dependent that was the plan

Respectfully, that is not the case. Democrats did not intend to do things like:

destroyed the father in the family replacing it with the government.

rather, this was a (terrible) unintended consequence. When the numbers started to come back on the results, Democrats largely split on whether or not to accept reality, or instead smear the messengers.


THat was Hillarys campaign fil called Julia.

I think you might be thinking of "The Life of Julia", which was a much (deservedly) mocked messaging campaign under Obama.
 
Welfare destroyed the 2 parent family. Single mothers are the main cause of poverty and crime.

Wow, the anti-abortites/right are pretty stupid to keep trying to deny women abortions then, right?
 
Democrats knew welfare would make blacks dependent that was the plan. It destroyed the father in the family replacing it with the government. THat was Hillarys campaign fil called Julia. Democrats oppose parental rights and the plan was to replace the family with the government. The irony is democrats come from the mist dysfunctional families you can imagine. Take the BIdens sex and drug addicts tax cheats influence peddlers they belong on the Jerry Springer Show

The left was trying to replace the family with the government way before that:

Just as housework withers away, so the obligations of parents to their children wither away gradually until finally society assumes the full responsibility. Under capitalism children were frequently, too frequently, a heavy and unbearable burden on the proletarian family. Communist society will come to the aid of the parents. In Soviet Russia the Commissariats of Public Education and of Social Welfare are already doing much to assist the family. We already have homes for very small babies, creches, kindergartens, children’s colonies and homes, hospitals and health resorts for sick children. restaurants, free lunches at school and free distribution of text books, warm clothing and shoes to schoolchildren. All this goes to show that the responsibility for the child is passing from the family to the collective.

 
This OP is about the ideas presented in the Atlantic piece,

The Myth of the Poverty Trap​

(Gifted link)

The premise:

"We used to be trapped. And by “we,” I really do mean all of us. A few hundred years ago, the majority of the world lived in extreme poverty, and even in recent decades, people lucky enough to clear the $2.15-per-day threshold were living lives that others in the developed world would find unrecognizable.

Death is inevitable. Living in poverty is not.

From 1981 to 2019, the share of the global population living in extreme poverty fell from 44 percent to just 9 percent—an astronomical achievement."

The piece is about what happened, why it happened and how it can be extended.

"For centuries, mass poverty seemed inevitable. Starvation, disease, death. As late as the 1700s, roughly half of children globally would die before reaching adulthood. This was the natural order of things.

And then everything began to change. Looking at a graph of development measures over the past two hundred years is to witness the miracle of human development: On any measure you can think of—child mortality, nutrition, poverty—more and more people are able to live significantly better lives than their ancestors could even dream of.

Just 35 years ago, 2 billion people lived in extreme poverty. Today, that number is just under 700 million. That’s still a lot of people, but this staggering improvement proves that mass poverty isn’t preordained."

I'd deny nothing of what you stated above or what the article explains.

The issue being discussed is not about poverty. It is about equity.

It is the ageless, endless, forever argument regarding value of effort and whose is worth what. The symbiotic relationship between owners and laborers.

Laborers demanding that their sweat equity be acknowledges as essential and compensated fairly for it. Pointing out that their consumption is what drives the profitability of ownership's investment.

Ownership stating that there would be no work for labor to labor over without their investing and therefore labor ought to be thankful, shut up, and just show up for work on time.

That is the battle between the monied and the pitchforks and torches.

You'd think we'd have simply acknowledged both sides need each other to thrive and dealt with it amicably and sensibly, but no...
 
Oh look…something from 1965 🙄

Couldn’t find anything within, gosh, the last 60 years perhaps?
Of course, and let us not forget a Moynihan was pointing out that it was institutional racism that kept "negro families" in poverty.

I know, minor detail.
 
That's not what I was disputing. The request was for a source that the treatment of Black Americans by Democrats was to intentionally create conditions for welfare and keep them that way. You wrote this:



Where is that citation?
The Second Coming of Lee Atwater?
 
It's interesting. I was gone for a day or two and the subject of the thread has been forgotten. We went from a global, epic "progress of man" article to picayune explications of pet ideological theories in a nanosecond, surprising no one.

Yet, there is some light in this moral darkness. The discussion of "social trust" is particularly apt. Integrated in the OP article is the notion that people do not rise from poverty alone but as a society. We rise together. It is easier and more efficient to do so when we "trust the system" and "follow norms". Hmm. That lesson alone is worth the price of admission.
 
It's interesting. I was gone for a day or two and the subject of the thread has been forgotten. We went from a global, epic "progress of man" article to picayune explications of pet ideological theories in a nanosecond, surprising no one.

Yet, there is some light in this moral darkness. The discussion of "social trust" is particularly apt. Integrated in the OP article is the notion that people do not rise from poverty alone but as a society. We rise together. It is easier and more efficient to do so when we "trust the system" and "follow norms". Hmm. That lesson alone is worth the price of admission.
I dunno ive been on topic this whole thread.
 
You'd think we'd have simply acknowledged both sides need each other to thrive and dealt with it amicably and sensibly, but no...
Interestingly, the societies that do this - now and throughout history - are the ones that thrive.

There is always a tension between success of the individual and success of the populace. Government is supposed to be the ameliorating force. When it tilts too much one way or the other, societies collapse and we get things like the French Revolution, Fascism, and Russian and Chinese communism. The US, and especially the EU, remain strong because they actively seek the balance point (well, at least until recently). One person's "war on poverty" aspiration is another's "wealth distribution" boogeyman. But remember this: A rising tide lifts all boats. Something that the OP article demonstrates in spades.
 
Interestingly, the societies that do this - now and throughout history - are the ones that thrive.

There is always a tension between success of the individual and success of the populace. Government is supposed to be the ameliorating force. When it tilts too much one way or the other, societies collapse and we get things like the French Revolution, Fascism, and Russian and Chinese communism. The US, and especially the EU, remain strong because they actively seek the balance point (well, at least until recently). One person's "war on poverty" aspiration is another's "wealth distribution" boogeyman. But remember this: A rising tide lifts all boats. Something that the OP article demonstrates in spades.

We weren’t, actually, all that good at it until the Crash made enough people angry from its obvious resulting from greed based overreach of the Gilded Age elite causing the misery that befell the populace.

We had rising fascist, communist and even anarchist movements. Luckily we wound up with this guy, FDR, and this compromise; the Democratic Socialist “New Deal’.

We didn’t get much better at it till post WW2 “G.I Bill”, suddenly college educated formerly working class men looking to move into corporate management and a need for them in the work space, powerful labor unions and other social changes. (Over simplifying but it would take a book to get into it fully).

We had an age of real growth in the sharing of GNP and political power between the economic classes. It even started to cross economic lines to include race and sex and there were improvements in those areas.

Didn’t last though. The economic elite, the first tenth of the 1%’ers, put up with all of this but took umbrage when the riff-raff breached the halls of the Ivy League, which they considered their own, and it crossed a line when it hit them in the wallet and they stopped a war. (Again, over simplified to get to the crux of the point).

There has been a long game since “68. Union busting “Right to Work” laws, the corruption of those unions from within by corporate money and position of those union hierarchies (I fault the corporate types for being corrupters and the weak union political types for being as corruptible as other politicians). Changes in education that created our current generations of those with little to no knowledge of civics, the processes of deductive reasoning and critical thinking, their application to history, etc.

So we have been devolving back into a post Civil War Industrial Revolution style “democracy”, heavy on corporate robber barons, throughly corrupted politicians, an under educated masses…. (All greatly over simplified but, again, this would turn into something no one would read if I went into detail). I think I got the key points across.

BTW, I am NOT claiming the truly wealthy have meetings to define and plan all of this. It’s not some criminal conspiracy.

I’m claiming that kind of wealth over time changes individual reality. They become so removed from the rest of us, insulated and isolated from the mainstream, that their thinking changes. Their filters aren’t our filters. Their reality not our reality. This creates enough people thinking similarly and pulling, individually, in the same direction that when you add the power of money and the access to influence it allows they cause change. That change, moving in similar directions, becomes unified in its confluence and reaches a point where it might as well be that they held meetings and planned it.
 
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