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The Missing Signature in 911

Read through your post and this is the only part that hasn't already been repeatedly addressed to the rest.

Translation: I have nothing better to say so I'll just try to wave it all away as having been addressed, when the reality is I, nor my short-lived ally, can prove standard intercepts or missiles at the Pentagon.

You might think that way... you might even be claiming that because it serves you not having to ACTUALLY ADDRESS a point AS IT IS STATED (Ie : NOT a strawman). But your entire post is NOT legitimate.

My post was entirely legitimate, for did the OP "claim" missiles at the Pentagon or not ???

Did the OP directly "claim" intercepts by NORAD were standard or not ???

This is simple stuff B'man ... the post would only be illegitimate if it dealt with things the OP didn't bring up.

This is directly on target ... it relates directly, and to the heart, of the OP's own claims.

In what genuine intellectual honesty can you say otherwise ???

I even quoted verbatim the OP's words, yet somehow by your reckoning are not "addressing a point as it is stated" ... please explain how quoting verbatim, word for word, the OP's own words and asking them to provide proof is somehow, me again "not addressing a point as it is stated" ???

Seriously, exactly how is quoting these words and asking for proof not "addressing as stated" ... seriously !!!

Explain exactly how asking the OP's own claims to be shown as true is me not addressing anything B'man ... I'll wait !!!

I was SAYING : There HAS TO BE some sort of air-defenses at, in or around the nations capital UNLESS to those running the country the 'nations capital' isn't anything worth protecting and in the case of an invasion would be abandoned by those people for a 'more secure' location through which to run the country in that crisis.

B'man you can be "saying" "there has to be" to your hearts content, the simple inescapable, black and white, carved on stone reality is there are NO missiles at the Pentagon.

This was a DIRECT and impossible to misinterprate claim of the OP's ... that cited SPECIFICALLY the missiles AT the Pentagon ... a clear and unequivocable statement that is wholly impervious to any alternative interpretation of.

And at the end of the day it all comes down to this B'man, missiles either exist OR not at the Pentagon, all you "saying" that there "has to be" counts for NOTHING against physical reality.

Faith is not proof, so no matter how feverently you may "believe" that the Pentagon has missiles, the reality is it doesn't ... and that reality is something within your power to find out ... GO THERE AND SEE ... OPEN YOUR EYES ... DON'T BE BLIND TO THE OBVIOUS !!!

Putting up pictures of anti-aircraft missiles and saying "I don't see any" does not constitute proof that no defenses exist... oh an when you consider all the supplemental facts that were going on that day.

Did I say they were ... I CLEARLY said GO FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF !!!

The photographs were not some sort of "proof" B'man, but a visual reference for you to FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF !!!

How can you manage to spin the clear and concise statements that these pictures are representative only of what to look YOURSELF for, into "my" proof ???

Besides, WTF has "supplemental" anything got to do with whether or not missiles are physically in existance at the Pentagon ???

And in terms of 9-11, since the rest of the post previous to this is as a GENERALITY NOT specifically to 9-11... I'm restating this in the attempt that you not build another strawman. (I know you like to put lipstick and a dress on it and other tricks to hide the straw, doesn't change what it is)

So asking for proof of standard intercepts and missiles at the Pentagon is somehow just a "generality" not specific to 9/11, exactly how B'man ???

And where EXACTLY is the strawman in asking the OP (and now you) to back up YOUR OWN CLAIM ???

Are missiles and intercepts not important to the issue somehow either, were they just banalities thrown in to fill space, meaningless baubles to fill a gap in conversation or were they direct and relevant claims ???

1 trillion dollars + gets served out in 'defense' of this country. The fact that this scale of attack was even allowed would have seen people involved demoted, fired, or convicted for their actions... at least 1 singular individual did something wrong that could have been done better.

Yes, so people FAILED you, it bugs you, it angers and aggravates ... but why does that give you authority to accuse them of mass murder.

Lifes unfair at times, it sucks that those tasked with such an important duty as to protect failed, but that is no virtue to accuse without proper proof !!!
 
That wasn't a claim, it was a question... one that you dance around intentionally...

The original one was, and this whole thing relates to that.

The point being that it was CLAIMED that the government made an OFFICIAL statement to the effect that the engine found from Flight 175 was not what was actually found.

That "claim" (coming AFTER the mssile and intercept ones) has not been substanciated, therefore this whine of yours is moot !!!

Which all comes down to WHY should we address for you, any claim that has NOT been shown as true ... why should we need address a negative.

There is no "dancing" around on our part, a gratuitous and unwarranted comment on your part in that you seem to have no issue with the OP "dancing" around answering his first direct claims of intercepts and missiles.

Rather ironic that you call us to task, and yet have no such truck with your departed ally doing the very same thing !!!

So, no ... I'm not dancing B'man, I want the claim of it being an official government statement either verified or retracted.

This was NOT "my" claim, but someone elses, why should I address something that the very basics of have not been shown.

Such double standards in play that you find this dancing around on my part, yet your new-found friends repeated avoidence not ... and even funnier when you realise that you will fail to see it !!!

Hell, I know nothing of the difference of the two engines, and I was hoping someone as smart as yourself wouldn't turn tail and run from such a question with so much ferocity.

I'm not "running" B'man, just asking for the basics of the claim to be either substanciated or retracted.

Why is that so difficult to see ???

Anyway, nothing stopping you, again, from contacting those considered proper authorities and finding out.

Why would you "trust" some anonymous self-proclaimed poster in a forum ???

What faith leads you to "think" some unknown entity would be the right person to believe anyway ???

Why do you have such issue with legitimate authorities, for what possible motive or benefit would either Boeing or Pratt & Whitney need lie to you ???

Building up ENTIRE strawman posts nearly a full thread page long ALL just so that you can go without addressing the question.

No strawman in wanting a DIRECT claim backed up !!!

Or is there ???

What kind of engine was found ???

The one from Flight 175 !!!

How did you come to that conclusion?

Because that is the kind of engines used !!!

Very simple, even a child with the right information could answer it... or you could admit you don't know, there's no real shame in not knowing something this technical...

B'man, like you I do not have the technical knowledge to know by sight alone, so rely on those considered real experts whose judgement I trust or find credible.

Quite simply, it is beyond idiocy to think that this is so easy to spot that complete no-bodies on the internet found it out, but actual manufacturers, companies and pilots and engineers from any nation on this planet failed to spot it.

Just what are the chances that not one single legitimate authority anyplace on this entire globe saw it ... but self-proclaimed ones on forums did ???

Besides what is gained by "switching" engines, it serves no real purpose, and considering that truthy types (being so smart and all) could find it out by looking at a few grainy pictures, yet missed by real technical experts, is just ANOTHER layer of overly complex issues to add to an already overly complex and convoluted conspiracy, and one too easy to spot ... apparently !!!

Just how many moving part does this one have ... how many will you keep faith in before you realise just how unworkable and unwieldy this is ???

I'm not an aircraft engine specialist ... but I see no logical or realistic reason for it not to be just what it was ... the engine FROM Flight 175.

But obviously since your making such a to-do about my lack of technical knowledge perhaps you could share your "inferred" one then !!!

(as a side note, I just wanted to point out from our previous debates the difference between myself when I KNOW what I"m talking about versus NOT knowing what I"m talking about, like now)

Well, you seem NOT to "know" that there are no missiles at the Pentagon, or that the OP was not what he claimed, so this perhaps should be taken with the requisite dose of salts !!!

Ok, I don't care about how many ways you can slander this PW guy, or myself, and honestly, I don't see how a straight answer is so difficult... it definitely projects the dishonesty of some in this debate.

Where is the slander B'man ... he was not a pilot, never had been, there were too many faulty claims for him to be real,, how is that slanderous ???

But considering that the failure to answer straight questions originated with your short-lived ally ... perhaps you can see the ultimate irony in you making such a song-and-dance about us not addressing his UNSUPPORTED claim of an official claim of a different engine.

Or maybe not !!!
 
Great, so you've shown that PW4000 didn't actually know what he was talking about....

Something that has taken you 18 pages to see, and us from Page 1 !!!

Not to mention that it's like pulling teeth to actually get you guys to actually address an issue straight on.

And the Easter Bunny does exist !!!

But do forgive us our joshing of the thead, truthers are getting boring now, so it was fun to milk this one a bit ... which still doesn't justify your failing to call out your buddy for his inability to substanciate his own claims whilst haranguing us for not addressing, to your satisfaction, the engines question ... does it !!!
 
First off, I was speaking GENERICALLY at first... I wasn't saying specifically SAM SITES or whatever... I was talking about air-defenses... interceptors, AA guns, whatever. Doesn't matter.

Oh! what a tangled web you weave, B'man !!!

You were NOT speaking "generically" ... you were in full and complete agreement, which you later "revised" to generalities ... such revisionism won't work here, your own words exist to condemm you.


I was asking the question : Do you think that the nations capital has defenses?"

No B'man, you CHANGED it to that, but originally you were in full AGREEMENT with the OP's claim of missiles at the Pentagon.

It's not like I expect honesty from someone who is openly anti-truth.

Irony ... it comes shining through sometimes !!!

Either way... added to ignore list.

You know you don't mean that ... you'll be sucked back in in no time at all, your just not able to resist responding !!!
 
Oh! what a tangled web you weave, B'man !!!

You were NOT speaking "generically" ... you were in full and complete agreement, which you later "revised" to generalities ... such revisionism won't work here, your own words exist to condemm you.

No, I'm not a military person... when I say 'air defenses' I'm thinking like in those RTS video games (ie starcraft) air defenses, which includes the turrets, the AA guns, you know, stuff that would shoot a plane down more effective then a dude with a shotgun on a streetcorner.

Like I said, reading the statements I was RESPONDING TO over and over makes that point even more clearly.

No B'man, you CHANGED it to that, but originally you were in full AGREEMENT with the OP's claim of missiles at the Pentagon.

I wasn't even in agreement with the OP... I was interested to see where he was going with his questions, but ya... expecting a straight answer from you guys... I tried to warn him.

Irony ... it comes shining through sometimes !!!

Ya, the irony is that being anti-truth is a good thing... look, you can always prove my wrong by making a singular post that is not a strawman argument. Hell, you could make it a one liner, I don't care, I would just like at some point for something I said to actually be responded to as I said it.

You know you don't mean that ... you'll be sucked back in in no time at all, your just not able to resist responding !!!

No, I'm not interested in having a political discussion with children having tantrums when they don't get their way... I'm not interested in having a discussion where the most powerful thought process almost never exceeds five words... I'm also not interested in discussion with people that only respond to single words of an argument.

The main reason I keep discussing with yourself is that you actually have legitimate contributions every so often... even though I'll disagree with you more often then not, and even though most of your best arguments are against strawmen of my points you've maintained a level of civility that's beyond some of the knuckle draggers around.

The bottom line is though, that maybe stuff gets lost in translation, but if you were debating things honestly, by now there would have been SOME concessions on SOME areas that ARE fully documented. I know, I know, newscasts are all figments of my imagination when they contradict NIST, but I get it... even if I'm wrong on 20% of the details, I'm still right on the majority with maybe 20% of speculation to fill blanks left in the evidence.
 
PW said there were misslie defense systems at the Pentagon.

YOU said...



I officially brand you a liar.

Whatever you say children.

I know what I was talking about the entire time... like Stinger missiles even have an effective range of about 3 miles and 2.5 miles in the air... and that's a weapon that can be used defensively that's hand-held.

Not that it makes a difference you'll keep whining and crying that I'm a liar, and you'll probably keep trolling my threads calling me a liar with no real basis beyond the fact that your ignorance prevented you from an honest discussion.

:boohoo:
 
Whatever you say children.

I know what I was talking about the entire time... like Stinger missiles even have an effective range of about 3 miles and 2.5 miles in the air... and that's a weapon that can be used defensively that's hand-held.

Not that it makes a difference you'll keep whining and crying that I'm a liar, and you'll probably keep trolling my threads calling me a liar with no real basis beyond the fact that your ignorance prevented you from an honest discussion.

:boohoo:

My basis for calling you a liar is the fact that you lied :rofl:

You can't even keep up with your own lies, you tell so many :rofl:

I thought you were ignoring me anyway :rofl:
 
My basis for calling you a liar is the fact that you lied :rofl:

You can't even keep up with your own lies, you tell so many :rofl:

I thought you were ignoring me anyway :rofl:

He lied about ignoring you. Add that to the long list. :lamo
 
My basis for calling you a liar is the fact that you lied :rofl:

You can't even keep up with your own lies, you tell so many :rofl:

I thought you were ignoring me anyway :rofl:

It's ok, you really can't read or understand simple sentences in the proper context... and if you spent a bit more time actually paying attention maybe you wouldn't come off like one of those kids that needs to strap on a helmet before going to the washroom.

But, I figured you talking to me in spite of being ignored meant you had something insightful...

But I was wrong, you carried on singing and dancing with the dunce cap like that somehow made you feel better...
 
It's ok, you really can't read or understand simple sentences in the proper context... and if you spent a bit more time actually paying attention maybe you wouldn't come off like one of those kids that needs to strap on a helmet before going to the washroom.

You musta had trouble washing under yours; effected your brain clearly.
 
It's ok, you really can't read or understand simple sentences in the proper context... and if you spent a bit more time actually paying attention maybe you wouldn't come off like one of those kids that needs to strap on a helmet before going to the washroom.

But, I figured you talking to me in spite of being ignored meant you had something insightful...

But I was wrong, you carried on singing and dancing with the dunce cap like that somehow made you feel better...

And that addresses your lies, how? Exactly?
 
A little House Cleaning:

Now, I wanted to make the very first post in this thread, something that can stand as the underlying premise for why I began to ask questions about the Official Government claims for 911. So, that first post in this thread, is my opinion and that is not up for debate.

However, the primary purpose of this thread is to have an adult debate and/or dialog about the Official Claims -vs- The Evidence Available. Though you can start such a debate or dialog at any point along the Official Claim continuum, I'd like to handle this thread a bit different from the way these 911 debates typically occur. I'd like to go through one question at a time, so that we can really get behind the conceptual AND the technical aspects of 911 in the aggregate.

All too often, threads end up tossing every single item of "dispute" around like a washing machine and nobody ever gets any clarity on any item like that - not at all. So, I'd like to line-up people in three categories, if you don't mind:

Group 1: Those who 'believe' the Official Claims without question - 100%
Group 2: Those who 'believe' the Official Claims but still have unanswered questions
Group 3: Those who 'doubt' the Official Claims but still have unanswered questions
Group 4: Those who 'disbelieve' the Official Claims but still have unanswered questions
Group 5: Those who 'disbelieve' the Official Claims without question - 100%

That should place an end-cap on just about everyone. Anyone with no opinion about 911, most likely has no opinion about anything and thus their input to this thread would be a non-starter at best.

Please do us all a favor. When you post in this thread. Please put your Group number (1-5) at the Top Left Corner of each post you make. This way, the entire forum can see if you change or alter your opinion over time. Pretty neat and the forum moderator should think of a way to make that happen with a single click, so that you don't have to type anything. But, for now - please type for example:

Group 1:

Then the rest of your post below your group number. Please capitalize the "G" in the word Group and use a colon (:) after your group number. Thank you. If we spot a shift in your beliefs, then that shift, that makes it easier for people to say: "Hey, John. I see you went from Group 1 to Group 5 in less than 3 days! What the heck happened, guy?

I started out in Group 1 but after filtering through bs on both sides and verifying some scary facts now puts me in Group 3
 
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I started out in Group 1 but after filtering through bs on both sides and verifying some scary facts now puts me in Group 3

I'm in Group 6.. Those who believe the official claims, and think conspiracy theories are a colossal waste of time and energy.
 
I'm in Group 6.. Those who believe the official claims, and think conspiracy theories are a colossal waste of time and energy.

Many people do think like you. That is sad because it helps make anyone in a position of power exempt from being investigated. Basically making their words and claims equal to an untouchable kings words and claims
 
Many people do think like you. That is sad because it helps make anyone in a position of power exempt from being investigated. Basically making their words and claims equal to an untouchable kings words and claims

PW goes away, and you show up to take the flame... interesting.
 
Many people do think like you. That is sad because it helps make anyone in a position of power exempt from being investigated. Basically making their words and claims equal to an untouchable kings words and claims

Why don't you take your indisputable facts and all your evidence to court?
 
Many people do think like you. That is sad because it helps make anyone in a position of power exempt from being investigated. Basically making their words and claims equal to an untouchable kings words and claims

America, at this point, is more or less run by a dictator with a four year shelf-life... it makes it very hard to investigate, and then you consider how judges tend to want to play it safe, they don't want to be the judge that creates a new precedent or whatever... and then all these debunkers just cry "shut up and take it to court".

It's funny thinking back over the years of all the variety of ways the debunkers try to find some point on which to stifle debate because debating facts is not possible when they are stacked so high against their position...

I just wish someone could make the point that 9-11 happened as the official version goes WITHOUT delving into fallacies like defiance of laws of physics and all to make their point.... then at least, for myself, I would be happy to let it go...
 
America, at this point, is more or less run by a dictator with a four year shelf-life... it makes it very hard to investigate, and then you consider how judges tend to want to play it safe, they don't want to be the judge that creates a new precedent or whatever... and then all these debunkers just cry "shut up and take it to court".

It's funny thinking back over the years of all the variety of ways the debunkers try to find some point on which to stifle debate because debating facts is not possible when they are stacked so high against their position...

I just wish someone could make the point that 9-11 happened as the official version goes WITHOUT delving into fallacies like defiance of laws of physics and all to make their point.... then at least, for myself, I would be happy to let it go...

shut up and take it to court. You've got the evidence... man up and use it.
 
America, at this point, is more or less run by a dictator with a four year shelf-life... it makes it very hard to investigate, and then you consider how judges tend to want to play it safe, they don't want to be the judge that creates a new precedent or whatever... and then all these debunkers just cry "shut up and take it to court".
You're a little behind on time - the dictators, Bush/Cheney left some time back.

It's funny thinking back over the years of all the variety of ways the debunkers try to find some point on which to stifle debate because debating facts is not possible when they are stacked so high against their position...

Yeah, sort of like it is against birthers, no?

I just wish someone could make the point that 9-11 happened as the official version goes WITHOUT delving into fallacies like defiance of laws of physics and all to make their point.... then at least, for myself, I would be happy to let it go...

I feel the same about "birthers" - yet we have a bunch of loonies like Trump, trying to make a case out of it, with a bunch of loony followers thinking that he's so smart for doing so!
 
You're a little behind on time - the dictators, Bush/Cheney left some time back.

You missed the part about the 4 (or 8) year shelf life...

Yeah, sort of like it is against birthers, no?

The fact is that, like it or not, the "birthers" are asking a legitimate question, one which has not been satisfied...

I feel the same about "birthers" - yet we have a bunch of loonies like Trump, trying to make a case out of it, with a bunch of loony followers thinking that he's so smart for doing so!

Ya, there are better ways to get Obama impeached then the birth certificate issue,
 
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