The Left's Solution To Gun Violence

[Rucker61]

To reduce shootibgs in general and mass shootings in particular

Aren't both of these crimes?

The gun lovers' refusal to accept this and claim that gun control is motivated to reduce crime, is a Straw Man of willful dishonesty.

Ibid.

 

[Rich2018]

Aren't both of these crimes?

Yes

As I said, gun control is motivated, not to reduce crime, but to reduce shootings in general and mass shootings in particular (though it will reduce crime a little).

What causes mass shootings?

the low wattage sheeple This was the entirely of what you just said, communications-wise.

debatepolitics.com

Post# 468, which was in direct answer to one of YOUR posts.

 

[soylentgreen]

So why do you want gun control?

I do not want gun control. Nor do I want to ban a gun. Not for america anyway. It would be just an exercise in pointlessness.
My only concern here is to point out how flawed the pro-gun arguments are.

 

[Rucker61]

I do not want gun control. Nor do I want to ban a gun. Not for america anyway. It would be just an exercise in pointlessness.
My only concern here is to point out how flawed the pro-gun arguments are.

All of the arguments?

 

[TurtleDude]

I do not want gun control. Nor do I want to ban a gun. Not for america anyway. It would be just an exercise in pointlessness.
My only concern here is to point out how flawed the pro-gun arguments are.

that's what I call contrarian nonsense. "I don't care about a subject-I just care about one side's arguments"

like it or not-the anti gun side's arguments are

1) anti constitutional
2) ignore human nature-
3) pretend those who do not obey felony one consequences will obey gun laws
4) motivated by dishonesty-most hard core anti gunners don't give a damn about crime

and yet you never ever take issue with that-rather you categorically reject pro gun arguments that include everything from it is our right to we want to own guns and you cannot do anything about it

 

[TurtleDude]

All of the arguments?

Have you ever seen him take issue with the pathetic trolling we see from anti gunners? or the absolute lack of understanding about the underlying facts-from those who whine that the second amendment didn't prevent southern STATES from oppressing blacks to those who claim gun bans will make crime disappear?

 

[soylentgreen]

All of the arguments?

No, just the really stupid ones that are nothing more than fear mongering.

 

[TurtleDude]

No, just the really stupid ones that are nothing more than fear mongering.

Fear mongering such as pointing out that the logical end game of those who think that the way to prevent crime is to restrict lawful citizens from doing what they have been doing for years (without ever harming anyone) is more and more and more restrictions? or those who want 10 round magazine limits won't stop there if there are shootings with 10 round magazines after their bans are passed? or those who want to ban rifles used in less than 1 % of all murders will want to ban the firearms used in 70% of all murders if crime control is really their goal?

 

[soylentgreen]

that's what I call contrarian nonsense. "I don't care about a subject-I just care about one side's arguments"

like it or not-the anti gun side's arguments are

1) anti constitutional
2) ignore human nature-
3) pretend those who do not obey felony one consequences will obey gun laws
4) motivated by dishonesty-most hard core anti gunners don't give a damn about crime

and yet you never ever take issue with that-rather you categorically reject pro gun arguments that include everything from it is our right to we want to own guns and you cannot do anything about it

I care about the subject but as you keep pointing out it is not for a foreigner to offer solutions. that is something americans need do for themselves if it is to be an actual workable solution. Try putting up a thread about guns in nz and you will have a, I really care, response.

1) The constitution is not fixed it can (theoretically but in reality not) be changed. The best you can do there is point out the law is on your side. But that is not an argument that it should be. You still need to defend the constitution with good reasons otherwise it is not a constitution but a religious text.

2) Human nature??? Not sure where you are going with that one.

3) That coming from someone who claims to be law abiding in one breath and then threatens illegal reprisal to any one who tries to make him obey a law in the next breath.

4) Actually crime has nothing to do with it. That is something only pro-gun people bring up as a scare tactic. Dealing with crime is a separate issue all together.

And the best you can do is simply say it is your right . And that is the extent of your reasoning. You fail miserably at giving any good reasons as to why it should be a right. Lots of bad reasons based on fear, but no good ones.

 

[TurtleDude]

I care about the subject but as you keep pointing out it is not for a foreigner to offer solutions. that is something americans need do for themselves if it is to be an actual workable solution. Try putting up a thread about guns in nz and you will have a, I really care, response.

1) The constitution is not fixed it can (theoretically but in reality not) be changed. The best you can do there is point out the law is on your side. But that is not an argument that it should be. You still need to defend the constitution with good reasons otherwise it is not a constitution but a religious text.

2) Human nature??? Not sure where you are going with that one.

3) That coming from someone who claims to be law abiding in one breath and then threatens illegal reprisal to any one who tries to make him obey a law in the next breath.

4) Actually crime has nothing to do with it. That is something only pro-gun people bring up as a scare tactic. Dealing with crime is a separate issue all together.

And the best you can do is simply say it is your right . And that is the extent of your reasoning. You fail miserably at giving any good reasons as to why it should be a right. Lots of bad reasons based on fear, but no good ones.

human nature is this-if you don't care about the consequences of a murder conviction and what it will do to you, you certainly won't care about the consequences of a firearms violation.

there are no good reasons to restrict people owning guns other than from a crime control angle. and since the laws that don't punish objectively harmful activities are where we are now for gun control, they fail.

I find your arguments pathetic because you never criticize anti gun arguments. And you categorically reject pro gun arguments SO I call bullshit on your claims

 

[soylentgreen]

Fear mongering such as pointing out that the logical end game of those who think that the way to prevent crime is to restrict lawful citizens from doing what they have been doing for years (without ever harming anyone) is more and more and more restrictions? or those who want 10 round magazine limits won't stop there if there are shootings with 10 round magazines after their bans are passed? or those who want to ban rifles used in less than 1 % of all murders will want to ban the firearms used in 70% of all murders if crime control is really their goal?

No, fear mongering in trying to argue that a gun is needed to walk the streets of america or even to live in your own house. And anyone who thinks banning a gun will end crime by even a half of a percent is someone who has no idea about crime. I have always agreed with you on this. Guns do not cause crime. banning guns will not stop crime. again, crime is a separate issue. But both sides are at fault for using crime as a factor in the gun debate.

Without ever harming anyone???? Your kidding right? The problem in america is not the gun itself it is the people who act stupidly with a gun. And in doing so harm themselves or others.

 

[soylentgreen]

human nature is this-if you don't care about the consequences of a murder conviction and what it will do to you, you certainly won't care about the consequences of a firearms violation.

there are no good reasons to restrict people owning guns other than from a crime control angle. and since the laws that don't punish objectively harmful activities are where we are now for gun control, they fail.

I find your arguments pathetic because you never criticize anti gun arguments. And you categorically reject pro gun arguments SO I call bullshit on your claims

That would work both ways. if you can pretend self defense and not have to face a murder conviction then you certainly won't care about the consequences of a firearms violation.

The one good reason is that it will send a message that americans are sick and tired of the deaths by guns that happen far to often. But apparently the pro-gun crowd are not to concerned about how many die.

And yes I have criticised the anti gun side. By not taking their side on that issue. And yes I do reject your arguments that are based on fear. Your arguments that guns can be useful tools I have supported.

 

[TurtleDude]

No, fear mongering in trying to argue that a gun is needed to walk the streets of america or even to live in your own house. And anyone who thinks banning a gun will end crime by even a half of a percent is someone who has no idea about crime. I have always agreed with you on this. Guns do not cause crime. banning guns will not stop crime. again, crime is a separate issue. But both sides are at fault for using crime as a factor in the gun debate.

Without ever harming anyone???? Your kidding right? The problem in america is not the gun itself it is the people who act stupidly with a gun. And in doing so harm themselves or others.

IN other words, you think that you know what is better for others than they know themselves. You are anti gun-just stop pretending you are not,. You pretend no one should carry a gun, and if they do, they are "fear mongering". that is beyond stupid. NO ONE IS HARMED by a law abiding person being armed and even if there is less than a one out of 100 chance they might be assaulted, that is better than them being unarmed when it happens.

I really wonder what causes what is obviously a facade for your motivations. "I just don't like pro gun arguments" is of very dubious validity

 

[soylentgreen]

IN other words, you think that you know what is better for others than they know themselves. You are anti gun-just stop pretending you are not,. You pretend no one should carry a gun, and if they do, they are "fear mongering". that is beyond stupid. NO ONE IS HARMED by a law abiding person being armed and even if there is less than a one out of 100 chance they might be assaulted, that is better than them being unarmed when it happens.

I really wonder what causes what is obviously a facade for your motivations. "I just don't like pro gun arguments" is of very dubious validity

No, what I think is that the arguments put up by the pro-gun crowd are weak and is nothing more than fear mongering. No I am not anti gun but I am anti stupid people thinking that they can do as they please with a gun. I have never said no one should have guns. but you need to create the kind of fear that that is what is being argued because that is all you have.

Would you like me to put up links of children who have died because law abiding people left guns where they should not have. And since when is leaving a loaded gun unattended and within reach of a child better than being unarmed?

It is not that I do not like pro gun arguments. What I do not like is the poor reasoning used by the pro-gun crowd.

 

[Rich2018]

All of the arguments?

Have you got it now ?
Ggun control is motivated, not to reduce crime, but to reduce shootings in general and mass shootings in particular (though it will reduce crime a little).

 

[Rucker61]

Have you got it now ?

Soylent wrote "My only concern here is to point out how flawed the pro-gun arguments are." My question was "are all of the pro gun arguments flawed?" Your response doesn't fit.

Ggun control is motivated, not to reduce crime, but to reduce shootings in general and mass shootings in particular (though it will reduce crime a little).

Should we allow the government to ignore the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and SCOTUS to reduce shootings in general and mass shootings in particular?

 

[Rich2018]

Soylent wrote "My only concern here is to point out how flawed the pro-gun arguments are." My question was "are all of the pro gun arguments flawed?" Your response doesn't fit.

Yes, all the pro-gun arguments are flawed

Should we allow the government to ignore the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and SCOTUS to reduce shootings in general and mass shootings in particular?

No.

 

[CLAX1911]

Is to let people like this run around freely while taking the right's away of law abiding citizens. This is the case with 99% of mass shootings where if we had already kept these people locked up, the mass shootings would have never happened. In fact, if we kept people like this locked up the average Joe and Jane would have less need to buy guns to defend themselves. The left could accomplish less guns being on the streets if people didn't need them to defend themselves. But, they do because the left refuse to keep dangerous people locked up who obviously should have been.

22,000 rounds of ammunition found in San Jose shooter's home

Officials said that the suspect "was prepared to use his firearms to take as many lives as he possibly could."

www.yahoo.com

Gun control has nothing to do with the violence, or crime or any of this stuff they tell you it has to do with. That's just an appeal to emotion.

Gun control has to do with control. It's something they don't want the criminals having them it's that they don't want you having them, because you and the rest of the citizens of the country have control.

The left goal is to eventually remove autonomy. They want a socialist dictator. They've been very clear about this.

 

[Moderate Right]

Gun control has nothing to do with the violence, or crime or any of this stuff they tell you it has to do with. That's just an appeal to emotion.

Gun control has to do with control. It's something they don't want the criminals having them it's that they don't want you having them, because you and the rest of the citizens of the country have control.

The left goal is to eventually remove autonomy. They want a socialist dictator. They've been very clear about this.

While I agree that they seem to want a socialist dictator, when it comes to gun control, I think they sincerely believe that if they have gun control then the bad guys won't get guns and that only the good guys will have them and they have a genuine bewilderment as to why those on the right don't want the same thing. The left have a lot of stupid policy ideas that they don't think through. Just look at the out of control violence in cities everywhere right now because they have tied law enforcement's hands and created an environment where no one in their right minds would want to be in the thankless profession, causing law enforcement shortages everywhere. No one on the left ever wants to take responsibility for the fact that blacks are committing crimes, resisting arrest, running away, and giving the police shit. It's always the police's fault, never the thug criminal's fault.

 

[Rich2018]

Gun control has nothing to do with the violence, or crime or any of this stuff they tell you it has to do with. That's just an appeal to emotion.

Gun control has to do with control. It's something they don't want the criminals having them it's that they don't want you having them, because you and the rest of the citizens of the country have control.

The left goal is to eventually remove autonomy. They want a socialist dictator. They've been very clear about this.

You're as deluded as Donald Trump

So the left wants a socialist dictator ?

You honestly can't make this stuff up....

...but just to humor your delusions, WHO (exactly) has been "VERY CLEAR" about this ?

 

[CLAX1911]

While I agree that they seem to want a socialist dictator, when it comes to gun control, I think they sincerely believe that if they have gun control then the bad guys won't get guns and that only the good guys will have them and they have a genuine bewilderment as to why those on the right don't want the same thing. The left have a lot of stupid policy ideas that they don't think through. Just look at the out of control violence in cities everywhere right now because they have tied law enforcement's hands and created an environment where no one in their right minds would want to be in the thankless profession, causing law enforcement shortages everywhere. No one on the left ever wants to take responsibility for the fact that blacks are committing crimes, resisting arrest, running away, and giving the police shit. It's always the police's fault, never the thug criminal's fault.

I really don't think that that's stupid I think that's how they sell it to their lemmings

 

[Rich2018]

I really don't think that that's stupid I think that's how they sell it to their lemmings

Believing that anyone wants a "socialist dictator" or that anyone has "been very clear about this", is what is stupid.