The Left Behind: Decline and Rage in Rural America

[Harshaw]

In the common vernacular, the blue states. You know the ones that actually generate revenue for the red states to live off of. You don't recognize how much diversity has been a benefit to this country. You don't acknowledge how much money you take out of the economy and how little you give back to it. Every GD dime we send your way is a dime that goes to allowing the red states to continue the life they prefer and you don't even have the common decency to say thank you and be happy. Oh no, you are on about your mission regardless of how misguided its intentions and its result if you ever get your way. In fact you are fighting a war that is already lost. We whites don't have enough kids. In fact the most recent census data just dropped the expectation of whites becoming a minority from 2042 to 2034. Those insisting on fighting this useless, degrading war are losing even faster than they thought they were.

You sound like a Republican complaining about parasites and freeloaders.

 

[Harshaw]

Please...they or you if you are indicating being part of that crowd most certainly are. I have friends that are people that "they" call the cops on just for walking down the street. Don't make me laugh!!!

"They" are calling the police on your "cosmopolitan" friends in the cities, from out in the "cornstalks"?

 

[jnug]

You sound like a Republican complaining about parasites and freeloaders.

Funny how that happens...but the numbers don't lie. The money goes from the blue states to the red states busting with people whining about THE BLUE STATES.

 

[Harshaw]

Funny how that happens...but the numbers don't lie. The money goes from the blue states to the red states busting with people whining about THE BLUE STATES.

Actually, the "numbers" don't show what you think, especially to the degree you think they do, but indeed, it's funny how that happens, this resentment in thinking that that you're paying for "freeloaders."

What actual objections do you have to conservative views on welfare, exactly? Please elucidate, with detail, in light of what you say here.

 

[jnug]

Actually, the "numbers" don't show what you think, especially to the degree you think they do, but indeed, it's funny how that happens, this resentment in thinking that that you're paying for "freeloaders."

What actual objections do you have to conservative views on welfare, exactly? Please elucidate, with detail, in light of what you say here.

I no longer can use the word Conservatives. The Right is no longer Conservative or espouses any of the views Conservatives espouse. Old line Conservatives I would now more closely align with Corporatists, It is simply now the Right which whines constantly about a life they for the most part choose to pursue and while biting the very hand that feeds it. The Right does not even have the common decency to just say thank you and then SHUT UP!

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

I agree with that. Beyond that, it's crap thinking.

Rural Americans have good reason to feel screwed, but our crap education system leaves them without the tools to understand what and who is screwing them.

No. This last election shows they finally figured it out.

 

[Harshaw]

I no longer can use the word Conservatives. The Right is no longer Conservative or espouses any of the views Conservatives espouse. Old line Conservatives I would now more closely align with Corporatists, It is simply now the Right which whines constantly about a life they for the most part choose to pursue and while biting the very hand that feeds it.

You dodged the question. What are your actual objections to "the Right's" or "conservative" views on welfare? Please elucidate, with detail, in light of what you say here.

 

[jnug]

No. This last election shows they finally figured it out.

You mean all 24% of the Electorate did. I can get 20% of people to believe anything. So Congratulations on dragging 4% more along with the peanut gallery.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

You mean all 24% of the Electorate did. I can get 20% of people to believe anything. So Congratulations on dragging 4% more along with the peanut gallery.

The democrats keep thinking they can trample the rights of the minority or the individual and they will continue to lose the support of those they think they can trample.

 

[jnug]

The democrats keep thinking they can trample the rights of the minority or the individual and they will continue to lose the support of those they think they can trample.

hahahahahah...ah...ah.....hahahhaha

Who needs SNL when you can always rely on DP.

 

[humbolt]

Your post well supports the contention that these folks are where they are because they want to be there. Nobody is dragging them into some city where they would prefer not to live. Therefore, it makes logical sense that their angst is based on not allowing those that don't agree with them to have their place in America. The natural extension of that is they want to turn the clock back to America's pastoral past!!!! Give me a break. Talk about a bunch of selfish asshats.

Yeah, we're just feeding your worthless asses, is all - providing the raw materials for your clothing, your vehicles, your fuel, and stuff like that. We're what make your "cosmopolitan" lifestyle possible. Face it. You couldn't grow a crop of anything if your life depended on it. You've likely never used a shovel or anything like it, and a day of work out here would ruin you.

I will make a deal with them. I won't stop them from hanging out with their corn stalk if they will let me hang out with my diverse, urban and cosmopolitan friends. But of course there answer would be NO. " NO Your diverse, urban and cosmopolitan friends are too attractive and my brood might be drawn to them."

I am losing my patience with this bunch.

You never had any patience for rural people to start with, so stop feigning some in-depth analysis and careful consideration. It's called fly-over country because you never considered it as anything else until you lost an election because of it.

 

[nota bene]

In the common vernacular, the blue states. You know the ones that actually generate revenue for the red states to live off of. You don't recognize how much diversity has been a benefit to this country. You don't acknowledge how much money you take out of the economy and how little you give back to it. Every GD dime we send your way is a dime that goes to allowing the red states to continue the life they prefer and you don't even have the common decency to say thank you and be happy. Oh no, you are on about your mission regardless of how misguided its intentions and its result if you ever get your way. In fact you are fighting a war that is already lost. We whites don't have enough kids. In fact the most recent census data just dropped the expectation of whites becoming a minority from 2042 to 2034. Those insisting on fighting this useless, degrading war are losing even faster than they thought they were.

I am astonished by your presumptuousness. You don't know what I recognize or acknowledge or think or feel or what my "mission" is. You don't speak for "blue" states, and your red-state understanding is more limited than it is arrogant. Spare me your noblesse oblige. :roll:

 

[dobieg]

Your post well supports the contention that these folks are where they are because they want to be there. Nobody is dragging them into some city where they would prefer not to live. Therefore, it makes logical sense that their angst is based on not allowing those that don't agree with them to have their place in America. The natural extension of that is they want to turn the clock back to America's pastoral past!!!! Give me a break. Talk about a bunch of selfish asshats.

I will make a deal with them. I won't stop them from hanging out with their corn stalk if they will let me hang out with my diverse, urban and cosmopolitan friends. But of course there answer would be NO. " NO Your diverse, urban and cosmopolitan friends are too attractive and my brood might be drawn to them."

I am losing my patience with this bunch.

Well you sure have the pulse of the smug, city liberal down pat.


It may not have dawned on you or you elitist leftist friends but we could care less what you do in the city as long as you leave those of us in the country alone.

 

[jnug]

Well you sure have the pulse of the smug, city liberal down pat.


It may not have dawned on you or you elitist leftist friends but we could care less what you do in the city as long as you leave those of us in the country alone.

Oh yea we just can't keep our hands off that corn crop. Can't get there fast enough. We have left you alone for decades. Have no interest in you. But you just cannot tolerate us just standing there. Just as you could not tolerate Barrack Obama just for standing there. He did not have to do a thing other than win an election and that was enough for your crowd.

Isn't that you big complaint, that you were ignored. So lets see, we left you alone for decades, left you to the lands you wanted to occupy, sent you gobs of money so that you could but you can't tolerate us just for being there just as you could not tolerate Barrack Obama just for standing there, just for having won an election. That is all it took for you to launch this grand cultural war and you were just ripe for the picking when your new Grand Wizard, NY Donald came along all while claiming that your big complaint is that .....you were ignored!

 

[dobieg]

Red:
The italicized portion of the "red" sentence is something you've said, not something I've wrote or implied.

What I wrote and was quite clear about is that the notions Wuthnow's interviewees expressed make no sense for they are incongruous with what would be a rational tack taken to abate the concerns they said they have.

​

I also wrote that the interviewees' perceptions of the circumstance, in particular the economic one and that of how Washington abets their needs, of white Americans doesn't comport with reality, and I provided links to three credible and methodologically traceable sources showing that to be so.


Going forward, please refrain from imparting to my remarks meaning that isn't in them extant. I'm willing to discuss the topic with you, but I'm not going to persist in defending against misrepresentations of what I wrote.

This was in reply to Harshaw in bold.

Great. I very much hope that the Democrats are as condescending and dismissive toward those people as you are.

"Vote for us, you stupid rubes!" Say it loud, say it proud. As much as possible.

And yet a few minutes later you 'liked' this post.

Trumputin spoke to the low IQ folkish people of the rural areas in a manner that they do not usually hear from a presidential candidate; that being stupid.

 

[dobieg]

Oh yea we just can't keep our hands off that corn crop. Can't get there fast enough. We have left you alone for decades. Have no interest in you. But you just cannot tolerate us just standing there. Just as you could not tolerate Barrack Obama just for standing there. He did not have to do a thing other than win an election and that was enough for your crowd.

I'll help you with just one of many examples of where you do-gooder city liberals get under our skin and into our wallets. When Obama unilaterally forced his carbon emissions policy on us, he made our diesel equipment such as tractors over 25 hp at least $7,000 more because of the added equipment. This for a policy that would reduce any emissions a fraction of what cow farts produce.


So yeah, we don't think too highly of you smug, big city slicker types who make fun of our corn stalks as you deride us for wanting to live our lives on our own terms.

 

[Hicup]

Red:
Seriously?

Do you truly not see how the conceptions developed in eight of the ten years prior to the 2016 election frame the mindset of voters in that election?



Blue:
I wrote that essay making sure that it was easily accessible to high school grads.

Upon seeing your "blue" remark I checked it against a readability tool. The tool shows the OP is written at about an 11[SUP]th[/SUP] to 12[SUP]th[/SUP] grade reading level, or as a different tool put it, "It should be easily understood by 16 to 17 year olds." Are you 16 or older?

Reading comprehension is important. I never said I didn't understand it, what I said, is that it is unnecessarily wordy, and contains a pompous tone. I think most would agree with that, even if they agreed with the premise.

Tim-

 

[jnug]

I'll help you with just one of many examples of where you do-gooder city liberals get under our skin and into our wallets. When Obama unilaterally forced his carbon emissions policy on us, he made our diesel equipment such as tractors over 25 hp at least $7,000 more because of the added equipment. This for a policy that would reduce any emissions a fraction of what cow farts produce.


So yeah, we don't think too highly of you smug, big city slicker types who make fun of our corn stalks as you deride us for wanting to live our lives on our own terms.

Unfortunately your air becomes my air. There is this thing could climate and then weather and the garbage you toss into the air ends up being the garbage I have to breadth. So air quality happens to be an issue we are all subject to and just because you might be willing to absorb more garbage in your air and higher levels of asthma and other respiratory issues does not mean we should all have to.

Seems to me the average cost increase to a diesel tractor is on a percentage basis about what we have absorbed to improve the pollutant characteristics of a standard car. How many years do you get out of a farm tractor by the way. Should be lots of time over which to depreciate and then continue to use that same investment.

 

[late]

No. This last election shows they finally figured it out.

Let me know when the koolaid turns sour, because I can guarantee it will.

 

[dobieg]

Unfortunately your air becomes my air. There is this thing could climate and then weather and the garbage you toss into the air ends up being the garbage I have to breadth. So air quality happens to be an issue we are all subject to and just because you might be willing to absorb more garbage in your air and higher levels of asthma and other respiratory issues does not mean we should all have to.

Seems to me the average cost increase to a diesel tractor is on a percentage basis about what we have absorbed to improve the pollutant characteristics of a standard car. How many years do you get out of a farm tractor by the way. Should be lots of time over which to depreciate and then continue to use that same investment.

I also have to breath out here in the country and the stench coming from your city whenever there's a west wind cause me emotional pain so how 'bout to make it fair we put up a big damn bubble, that you pay for, around your beloved city to help my quality of life?


My God, it's like you pompous city liberals do everything possible to make us dislike you.

 

[late]

So, sure, let's improve the schools. But how?

Let me start with an observation, Americans hate education reform.

But ignoring the political reality that will keep reform from ever happening, it's not hard.

That's the funny part to this. It ain't rocket science.

There should be no teaching degrees. That's nuts. If you want to teach math at the high school level, you get a degree in math. Then you go through an apprenticeship.

We have plenty of money. But there are a couple of buts... we don't have plenty of money if you are going to through away millions on sports and other things that are not actually educating kids. You look at European schools, they don't bus kids, they don't have school teams. They do educate kids.

Successful education systems either meet federal standards, or be federal schools. Local control has failed, and will continue to fail.

That would have to include funding for dirt poor communities so that they could finally start educating their kids.

We also need to address the other problems facing kids in poor communities.

None of these are optional, none will happen.

 

[jnug]

I also have to breath out here in the country and the stench coming from your city whenever there's a west wind cause me emotional pain so how 'bout to make it fair we put up a big damn bubble, that you pay for, around your beloved city to help my quality of life?


My God, it's like you pompous city liberals do everything possible to make us dislike you.

Not from my city. I seriously doubt I live west of you. What is YOUR CITY....a repository for all of those pungent chemicals you put into the ground. LA, also not my city, is a basin. So they are stuck with the air they make. So what is YOUR CITY? So far I am not making much sense of this.

 

[Xelor]

Not a "collection" I "aggregated." Just what you straight-up said:

Why the hell would one trepidatious about a diminution of moral fiber, knowing his character, accord approbation to Trump? Repeatedly, we hear conservative voters say they knew Trump to be cad/cur yet they voted for him. How does one do that while knowing too that a POTUS necessarily defines the cultural mores of moral and comportmental normality? The responses Wuthnow obtained are what the folks said, but what they said just doesn't make sense. The concerns, though they may be legitimate, don't align with the political solution option chosen as a means to assuaging them.

Alright. Perhaps I could have been clearer on the "red" point.

The solution option I had in mind was the primary-period choice of Trump over any of the GOP alternatives, none of whom had a similarly guileful and turpitudinous track record. Having asserted that they place moral values over economic ones, the rural folks with whom Wuthnow spoke yet preferred an, even then, known moral reprobate over fifteen others who, at the very least, were due the benefit of the doubt re: their moral bearing, thus the moral tone (tone at the top) they'd set.

The democrats keep thinking they can trample the rights of the minority or the individual and they will continue to lose the support of those they think they can trample.

That has little to nothing to do with party. It has to do with power.

• Tyranny of the Majority

There is also the matter that what is and isn't decried as tyrannical is often but a matter of one's merely disliking the initiatives policy makers implement, not whether they (or a POTUS) are indeed oppressing people.

Tyranny Examples:​

• 
  [*=1]Specific examples from history:
  • 
    [*=1]American slavery
    [*=1]Jim Crow
    [*=1]The Holocaust
    [*=1]The Spanish Inquisition
    [*=1]The Reign of Terror (People say Trump is like Hitler. I think he's more like Robespierre -- some right ideas, all the wrong ways of effecting them.)
    [*=1]Requiring religious worship of a specific faith (system); prohibiting religious worship of a specific faith (system)
    [*=1]Taxation without representation followed by the imposition of strictures/requirements on the unrepresented
    [*=1]Colonialism
  
  [*=1]General:
  • 
    [*=1]Suppression and/or abrogation of governmental checks and balances and/or overstepping the limits of delegated powers
    [*=1]Governmental control/suppression of public information
    [*=1]Governmental proscriptions or requirements re: how people associate
    [*=1]Establishing individuals who are above the rule of law
    [*=1]Governmental demonizing of voices of opposition
    [*=1]Governmental or public officials staging events to incite support for governmental initiatives
    [*=1]Suppressing, discrediting and/or demonizing investigators and whistleblowers
    [*=1]Government executive policies and/or initiatives their human objects cannot by their own actions lawfully abate, interdict, circumvent or somehow avoid.

Not Tyranny:​

• 
  [*=1]Everything that doesn't fit the above examples or general description.

It's worth noting too that oppression on the tyrannical order isn't something that happens selectively or to one or a few people. It's something done to one or more classes of people.

This was in reply to Harshaw in bold.

Great. I very much hope that the Democrats are as condescending and dismissive toward those people as you are.

"Vote for us, you stupid rubes!" Say it loud, say it proud. As much as possible.

And yet a few minutes later you 'liked' this post.

Trumputin spoke to the low IQ folkish people of the rural areas in a manner that they do not usually hear from a presidential candidate; that being stupid.

The sequence of posts and existential likes are visible to all. What is point of the observation you've shared?