The justification for wealth-redistribution.[W:2037]

[Hard Truth]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

How can that be? Promoting the general welfare is nothing more than executing the non-defense enumerated clauses of article 1 section 8. It is not a power separate from the rest.

If a responsibility was not delegated or directly flows from an enumerated power there is no authority for the Congress to act. We must return to our Constitutional foundations.

In my view the sections of the constitution that I quoted in post#1492 give very broad power to congress to tackle new issues that the framer's could not anticipate specifically. Also, the EPA was actually established by the executive branch, as was appropriate.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

It was an argument similar to what Marshall gave when he usurped powers not granted. You have to stop falling for those arguments.

It is one based on Constitutional law.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

Then you didn't read the rest of it. Hardly surprising.

It was a fabrication based on the commerce clause. The commerce clause is another vast usurpation of powers. We can deal with that one once we have some of the other problems under control.

You have got to stop falling for these excuses.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

It was a fabrication based on the commerce clause. The commerce clause is another vast usurpation of powers. We can deal with that one once we have some of the other problems under control.

You have got to stop falling for these excuses.

The only one making excuses is you.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

In my view the sections of the constitution that I quoted in post#1492 give very broad power to congress to tackle new issues that the framer's could not anticipate specifically. Also, the EPA was actually established by the executive branch, as was appropriate.

The commerce clause was intended to prevent one state from taking advantage of others. It was designed to reduce friction between contiguous states. It was not intended to overturn the rest of the Constitution.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

The only one making excuses is you.

I decided to stop being gullible. I read a great deal about what the framers wrote. I do not accept second hand the arguments from someone who wants to increase centralized control over everything.

I can sense in you that you do not want to live in tyranny either.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

You are totally free to absolve yourself from any and all responsibility for this country. Why do you ignore that and play the martyr routine?

You make it sound like someone is forcing you to live here.

LOL, Look at who's talking... spokesperson for the "let's pay extortion with other peoples' money" getting on a soap box about responsibility? Don't talk about assuming responsibility for the good of this country as long as you're not arguing that you need to put more of YOUR OWN money up for it.

As long as all you want to to is steal from the rich, all you're doing with that act is putting a neon "hypocrite" sign above your head and sending 1000 watts to it.

 

[Hard Truth]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

The commerce clause was intended to prevent one state from taking advantage of others. It was designed to reduce friction between contiguous states. It was not intended to overturn the rest of the Constitution.

Environmental degradation is likely to create friction between contiguous states.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Supreme Court Responsibilities

I decided to stop being gullible. I read a great deal about what the framers wrote. I do not accept second hand the arguments from someone who wants to increase centralized control over everything.

I can sense in you that you do not want to live in tyranny either.

The people who wrote the article are not for a central government. They specialize in constitutional law.

Well you're right on your second point. I don't want to live in tyranny either. I happen to believe our system is corrupt. I believe the people who corrupted the system use the government for their own means with little regard for humanity. What I mean by humanity is simple things like clean air, water, safe food and products....things that protect people. The only regard they have is profit by all means necessary. That in no way is what our forefathers intended to happen. Yes, our system has been hijacked.

 

[Bryan]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

If you earn it, it is yours, if you didn't it's not.

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Disciples? I thought we were an audience. Why do you believe "dittohead" is an insult at all?

It implies what I've maintained all along. That Rush's disciples merely repeat, ditto, the opinions that he issues him. And that he dittos what he is required to by the GOP.

All in all, no independent thinking required by anyone.

 

[imagep]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

If you earn it, it is yours, if you didn't it's not.

How do you define "earn"?

If I find a suitcase full of money, did I "earn" anything?

If I get paid $20/hr because I am a white male worker, and my coworker only gets paid $10/hr because she is a black female (doing the same job), did I actually "earn" twice as much as she did?

If I get a million dollar inheritance, did I "earn" anything?

If I rob a bank, did I "earn" anything?

If I scam money from people by leading them to believe that the "ab roller" that I am selling will somehow magically make them have visible abs, then did I "earn" anything?

Do welfare recipients earn anything? What about those on Social Security? What about those drawing unemployment benefits?

Nothing is black or white.

and Welcome to DP!!!

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Yes, we know, as the norm, you have nothing. You have yet to put forth a single bit of evidence to support anything you have said thus far.

I haven't put forth any evidence of gravity either.

Yet, do you doubt it?

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

I loved this make believe story. Please tell us another one.

I guess you think that you can tell my story better than I, like you can tell America's story better then history.

 

[Arbo]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

I haven't put forth any evidence of gravity either.

Yet, do you doubt it?

Ah, now the divert to a different topic. Don't you ever get tired of pushing the attention elsewhere to disguise your shortcomings?

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

It is unconstitutional. It is tyrannical. It is un-American (more Soviet).

The Supreme Court has the responsibility to decide controversies involving two or more states.

"Soviet"?

I guess that you are not happy with the role relative to Constitutionality that you were given by the Constitution.

Just think, in your make believe world, George Zimmermann would not even need a lawyer. He could just testify that he read the Constitution and didn't find any place where it prohibited what he did, so he was freeing himself on Constitutional grounds.

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

constitutional law.....

there is to be no minority rule OR majority rule.

that is why we have a constitution, and supposed to have a limited government.

Democracy = majority rule.

Tyranny = minority rule.

That's all of the possibilities.

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Except that it's not 50x the cost or complexity. Competition does not drive up costs. Most states end up with regulations that are strikingly similar because they have an uncanny ability to look around and see what works best for them. They also have much smaller budgets and more accountability to their voters.

We've seen what you are describing in terms of all of the countries around the world competing. It's pretty much chaos.

From chaos comes nothing but waste.

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

As I close in on the 50th year of my life, I am constantly amazed at the pure and simple laziness of a great many Americans.

Many times I have worked 2 and even 3 jobs, because I wanted a better life for myself and my family. I also did not just sit on my butt, I continued to learn and study, to make myself more attractive to employers. And it really is not hard.

Yet I have also seen people living lives of the ultimate consumer, and it sickens me. Like living in Alabama where I rented half of a duplex for $250 a month. And in one of my jobs delivering pizza to the local housing project (where sometimes they tried to pay me with food stamps). And seeing the parking lot full of 2-3 year old cars (with rims that cost more then my car did), big screen TVs and Playbox and Xstation games filling the living room. The several times one of those parents would come into the shop of my other job, wanting to buy their kid a $1,200 computer for a present.

They are living in an apartment my taxes pay for, but are able to buy a computer that cost 5 months rent!

Yet many of these same people scream about how the "rich are stealing their money". Sorry, it is not your money, it is their money. And they pay taxes on that, a lot of taxes. Yet people want to cry as they watch their 52" flat screen in the housing project, as people like me work multiple jobs to earn it ourselves.

Yet, in this country people rise from nothing all the time. People like Chris Gardner, who went from homeless shelter to founder and CEO of a prestigious investment company and a multi-millionaire.

10 years ago, I was not even making $30k, now I make almost double that. Nobody gave it to me though, I busted my butt to get where I am today. Yet people want to tear me down, because they are not willing to work as hard as I have to achieve their own greatness.

I hope that you don't consider your story exceptional. It's pretty common. The exceptions are not zero but a small percentage.

Some people have no motivation to leave poverty. Some are criminals. Some are not quite criminal but clearly irresponsible. They have always been a part of the human condition. Probably always will be.

They cannot be fixed. It's illegal to eradicate them. They are incapable of being more then they are. Some will have kids who are pretty much doomed to be nothing more then their parents.

If you have a solution. Please step forward with it.

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

LOL, Look at who's talking... spokesperson for the "let's pay extortion with other peoples' money" getting on a soap box about responsibility? Don't talk about assuming responsibility for the good of this country as long as you're not arguing that you need to put more of YOUR OWN money up for it.

As long as all you want to to is steal from the rich, all you're doing with that act is putting a neon "hypocrite" sign above your head and sending 1000 watts to it.

What does your post have to do with mine? They are completely disconnected.

 

[Master PO]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Democracy = majority rule.

Tyrrany = minority rule.

That's all of the possibilities.

WRONG....MIXED GOVERNMENT IS THE SOLUTION.

which the founders created, however the politicians has destroyed mixed government.


The Federalist No. 40

On the Powers of the Convention to Form a Mixed Government Examined and Sustained

New York Packet
Friday, January 18, 1788
[James Madison]

To the People of the State of New York:

THE second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional] convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

I hope that you don't consider your story exceptional. It's pretty common. The exceptions are not zero but a small percentage.

Some people have no motivation to leave poverty. Some are criminals. Some are not quite criminal but clearly irresponsible. They have always been a part of the human condition. Probably always will be.

They cannot be fixed. It's illegal to eradicate them. They are incapable of being more then they are. Some will have kids who are pretty much doomed to be nothing more then their parents.

If you have a solution. Please step forward with it.

I most certainly do not think it is exceptional. I have known a Welfare mom who started her own lawn care business and now makes an income similar to mine. I have known immigrants who moved here not knowing English become licensed nurses within 15 years of moving to this country, I have seen a slum kid from Baltimore get his degree in criminal justice, I have seen a group of former drug addicts all get their Microsoft MCSE.

I have also seen the daughter of a wealthy Doctor who was going through medical school herself get addicted to crack, drop out of school, leave her BF, and become reduced to a street whore turning tricks for $25 a throw.

All it takes is drive and ambition really.

For example, it does not take any real formal education to do what I do (network administration). Just put down the Xbox controller, buy a couple of books, and use your computer to learn and experiment instead of playing games. 25 years ago when most people were using their computer to play Wolfenstein and Civilization, I would do that but also learned how to troubleshoot, fix and build computers. In addition I was designing and running Bulletin Board systems, so when the Internet was opened to the general public, I already had a head start on most of the concepts.

And since I was already running my own home network in 1991, learning TCP/IP, then Novell, Microsoft, and the like was just an extension to what I already knew. But it is not magic, most people if they really want to can learn the basics and make a decent living at it. Ironically to some, many of the best computer technicians I have known started as car mechanics. This is because they already understood the basics of troubleshooting and diagnostics, they just needed to apply it to computers instead of cars.

But in short, there is no "solution" I can think of, other then give those living on the dole an incentive to move off of it. And that will never happen, so they will continue to have new cars, live in rent free (or low rent) apartments, and get fancy toys because they see no need to go anywhere else, all their needs are already provided.

 

[imagep]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

I have also seen the daughter of a wealthy Doctor who was going through medical school herself get addicted to crack, drop out of school, leave her BF, and become reduced to a street whore turning tricks for $25 a throw.

Sounds like a bargain. So was she worth the $25?

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

WRONG....MIXED GOVERNMENT IS THE SOLUTION.

which the founders created, however the politicians has destroyed mixed government.


The Federalist No. 40

On the Powers of the Convention to Form a Mixed Government Examined and Sustained

New York Packet
Friday, January 18, 1788
[James Madison]

To the People of the State of New York:

THE second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional] convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.

You still miss the point that the papers advertising the various issues and sides, that were debated, then resolved, then ratified into the Constitution are interesting background but have no legal standing in American law. No more than the Republican propaganda around ACA has any standing relative to that law.

We became a full representative democracy with universal suffrage in 1930 whether that meets with your approval or not. That ended all pretense that we are still the founders plutocracy which imposed a form of tyranny on everyone who was not a wealthy, white educated male, who imposed taxation as well as other government functions on everyone else without representation.

I know how important it is to the minority conservatives to try to grab power well beyond their numbers in order to impose your particular dogma on the majority.

It's not going to happen.

 

[PMZ]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

I most certainly do not think it is exceptional. I have known a Welfare mom who started her own lawn care business and now makes an income similar to mine. I have known immigrants who moved here not knowing English become licensed nurses within 15 years of moving to this country, I have seen a slum kid from Baltimore get his degree in criminal justice, I have seen a group of former drug addicts all get their Microsoft MCSE.

I have also seen the daughter of a wealthy Doctor who was going through medical school herself get addicted to crack, drop out of school, leave her BF, and become reduced to a street whore turning tricks for $25 a throw.

All it takes is drive and ambition really.

For example, it does not take any real formal education to do what I do (network administration). Just put down the Xbox controller, buy a couple of books, and use your computer to learn and experiment instead of playing games. 25 years ago when most people were using their computer to play Wolfenstein and Civilization, I would do that but also learned how to troubleshoot, fix and build computers. In addition I was designing and running Bulletin Board systems, so when the Internet was opened to the general public, I already had a head start on most of the concepts.

And since I was already running my own home network in 1991, learning TCP/IP, then Novell, Microsoft, and the like was just an extension to what I already knew. But it is not magic, most people if they really want to can learn the basics and make a decent living at it. Ironically to some, many of the best computer technicians I have known started as car mechanics. This is because they already understood the basics of troubleshooting and diagnostics, they just needed to apply it to computers instead of cars.

But in short, there is no "solution" I can think of, other then give those living on the dole an incentive to move off of it. And that will never happen, so they will continue to have new cars, live in rent free (or low rent) apartments, and get fancy toys because they see no need to go anywhere else, all their needs are already provided.

I agree. There is no solution and that is indeed unfortunate, but realistic. Wishing things were different has no impact on them.

BTW, congratulations on what seems to be a life well lived. It is it's own reward.