The justification for wealth-redistribution.[W:2037]

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Again...thats pure bull****. No one that has already mad eit prevents others from becoming successful. The only person to blame for your failure is that guy staring back at you. There has never been a time where miserable unprepared dismal failures were suddenly given wealth and prosperity. People have ALWAYS had to work for success and today is no different. And the beauty of it is...people CAN...unless they have kicked their own ass before they ever got out of bed.

Just a bunch of rhetoric. No substance whatsoever to the discussion.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Just a bunch of rhetoric. No substance whatsoever to the discussion.

Just the facts, baby. If you start from ground zero TODAY, you can become successful. Get a job...hell...get 2 or 3. Many of us that started with less than zero did just that. Work hard, be careful with your money, dont spend on stupid things, have a 20 year plan, work towards a goal always readjusting that 20 year plan upward every 5 years. If you start with jack squat, by the time you are 50 you will be successful. You will have laid a foundation for success for your kids and their kids. No one will have stopped you, no one will have done it for you. Keep whining about how unfair life is and how you cant succeed and you wont. Period.

Maybe you should follow an illegal immigrant around for a few weeks and let him show you how it is done. Maybe you can serve as his or her apprentice.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Just the facts, baby. If you start from ground zero TODAY, you can become successful. Get a job...hell...get 2 or 3. Many of us that started with less than zero did just that. Work hard, be careful with your money, dont spend on stupid things, have a 20 year plan, work towards a goal always readjusting that 20 year plan upward every 5 years. If you start with jack squat, by the time you are 50 you will be successful. You will have laid a foundation for success for your kids and their kids. No one will have stopped you, no one will have done it for you. Keep whining about how unfair life is and how you cant succeed and you wont. Period.

Maybe you should follow an illegal immigrant around for a few weeks and let him show you how it is done. Maybe you can serve as his or her apprentice.

My husband and I are fortunate to have job, however, with today's economic conditions it will make it easier for one or both of us to lose a job due to lay offs. It is also much harder for young kids fresh out of college to get a decent job. It is also harder to start a small business that can stay in business. Our economic reality is not the same as other generations depending on the economic conditions.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

....because it is really hard for real production to take place in a depressed economy. A depressed economy is good for rentiers because they don't lose on purchasing power. So, it becomes a push pull of economic policies that could be good/bad for workers vs investors.

You are going around in circles. You asserted that high volumes of financial transactions means production is reduced and there is no basis for such an assertion. And nothing you've posted since squares reality with that assertion. You should probably rethink your assumption that high volumes of financial transactions is some negative indicator for production since there isn't any logical basis for it.

 

[Papa bull]

The justification for wealth-redistribution.

My husband and I are fortunate to have job, however, with today's economic conditions it will make it easier for one or both of us to lose a job due to lay offs. It is also much harder for young kids fresh out of college to get a decent job. It is also harder to start a small business that can stay in business. Our economic reality is not the same as other generations depending on the economic conditions.

The economic reality is that we are coming slowly out of a very severe recession. It isn't rational to expect things to be as good (or easy) as they were during economic boom times. Nor is it rational to assume that the recession will last forever.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

The economic reality is that we are coming slowly out of a very severe recession. It isn't ration to expect things to be as good as They were during economic boom times. Nor is it rational to assume that the recession will last forever.

You're correct in the fact that we are coming out of a recession but supposedly we are in a recovery. Numbers are used to show unemployment is going down but if people look into what kind of jobs are being replaced by those lost, one will see a disturbing trend happening. Good jobs that are lost are being replaced by low wage part time jobs.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

You are going around in circles. You asserted that high volumes of financial transactions means production is reduced and there is no basis for such an assertion. And nothing you've posted since squares reality with that assertion. You should probably rethink your assumption that high volumes of financial transactions is some negative indicator for production since there isn't any logical basis for it.

No, I never said high volumes of financial transactions means production is reduced. I said our economy runs on those types of transactions rather than real production.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

You're correct in the fact that we are coming out of a recession but supposedly we are in a recovery. Numbers are used to show unemployment is going down but if people look into what kind of jobs are being replaced by those lost, one will see a disturbing trend happening. Good jobs that are lost are being replaced by low wage part time jobs.

That's exactly the same thing people were saying after every other recession, too. The Bush recession had he same rhetoric during the recovery. First was the "jobless recovery" rhetoric because the stock market recovered before unemployment did. Then came the "OK, unemployment is dropping but all the new jobs are crap part time jobs". That's the stage we're in again. The next stage was "well, never mind all that, let's talk about Iraq." That's because the jobs are a trailing indicator. Job losses follow the stock market crash and job gains follow the stock market recovery. Until things stabilize, business tends to be risk averse and expansion and new hires are a lot of risk. You need to feel things will go well for some extended period of time to feel comfortable me about expanding.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

No, I never said high volumes of financial transactions means production is reduced. I said our economy runs on those types of transactions rather than real production.

They have no real bearing on production. Our "real production" is still the foundation for our economy. We're not the 2nd largest exporting country in the world because we don't have any production.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

That's exactly the same thing people were saying after every other recession, too. The Bush recession had he same rhetoric during the recovery. First was the "jobless recovery" rhetoric because the stock market recovered before unemployment did. Then came the "OK, unemployment is dropping but all the new jobs are crap part time jobs". That's the stage we're in again. The next stage was "well, never mind all that, let's talk about Iraq." That's because the jobs are a trailing indicator. Job losses follow the stock market crash and job gains follow the stock market recovery. Until things stabilize, business tends to be risk averse and expansion and new hires are a lot of risk. You need to feel things will go well for some extended period of time to feel comfortable me about expanding.

Yes, business will not expand in an environment where demand is low. That really is the bottom line.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Yes, business will not expand in an environment where demand is low. That really is the bottom line.

Yep. Demand, however , is starting to increase. It's just slow going because the recession was global and Europe's recovery is slower and more uncertain than ours. It's a global market with global implications.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

They have no real bearing on production. Our "real production" is still the foundation for our economy. We're not the 2nd largest exporting country in the world because we don't have any production.

Our trade agreements like NAFTA have really hurt us as far as production goes.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Our trade agreements like NAFTA have really hurt us as far as production goes.

It has cost is some jobs by most estimations but it has actually done very good things for our production.

U.S. exports increased from $142 billion to a peak of $452 billion in 2007

I think it has probably done more good than harm. A significant amount of my production goes to Canada. I know that much and the fact that there is no tariff made that possible.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

It has cost is some jobs by most estimations but it has actually done very good things for our production.



I think it has probably done more good than harm. A significant amount of my production goes to Canada. I know that much and the fact that there is no tariff made that possible.

Talk about anecdotal evidence. So, your production correlates with the performance of the US economy?

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Talk about anecdotal evidence. So, your production correlates with the performance of the US economy?

It wasn't evidence. It isn't a correlation. It has been good for me. I'm probably not the only one. Just saying. Tried exports since NAFTA. Now that was evidence.

 

[What if...?]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Different philosophies. One says the top earners can EARN more, the other says "Life isnt fair. They's stealin all our pennies. Its not fair. Take it from them and give it to us!"

There was a 1,682 increase in first time "millionaires" in the US from 2012 to 2013. Those numbers regularly and steady have increased each year. You know how those folks became first time millionaires? I'll give you a hint...it WASNT by whining about how unfair life is and crying that some rich person knocked them down into the mud and stole their pennies. It also wasnt from playing the lottery or spending what little income they had on cell phones with data plans, internet, cable/satellite TV, the latest game console, cigarettes, alcohol, and an assortment of drugs and drug paraphernalia.

Not at all.

Computers and other technologies that facilitate globalization were developed, conferring a massive advantage to perfectly portable capital over MUCH less portable labor.

Hell, complex derivatives and many other extractive fiscal activities weren't even physically possible prior to the computer.

By some estimates, 70% or so of ALL new wealth created since the mid-seventies went to the top couple percent. We've all seen the graphs.

Nobody "stole", they just figured out how to get it first. Or clever new "rents".

 

[Hard Truth]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

The economic reality is that we are coming slowly out of a very severe recession. It isn't rational to expect things to be as good (or easy) as they were during economic boom times. Nor is it rational to assume that the recession will last forever.

A recession largely caused by investments in the housing bubble and earlier, the tech bubble. Gambling by investment can cause serious harm to real people (who were not the investors} when prices rise beyond real value and then collapse when bubbles break.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

It wasn't evidence. It isn't a correlation. It has been good for me. I'm probably not the only one. Just saying. Tried exports since NAFTA. Now that was evidence.

......And that is what you call anecdotal evidence. Only, your logic doesn't work. Just because something has been good for you, doesn't mean it's been good for the US economy. Here is what you said, "I think it has probably done more good than harm."

 

[Papa bull]

The justification for wealth-redistribution.

A recession largely caused by investments in the housing bubble and earlier, the tech bubble. Gambling by investment can cause serious harm to real people (who were not the investors} when prices rise beyond real value and then collapse when bubbles break.

That is a whole different argument of enormous magnitude since government sponsored entities Fannie and Freddie and government pressure on banks to make sub prime loans were at the root of this.

 

[Federalist]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

A recession largely caused by investments in the housing bubble and earlier, the tech bubble. Gambling by investment can cause serious harm to real people (who were not the investors} when prices rise beyond real value and then collapse when bubbles break.

You'd have to explain by what mechanism investments cause recessions.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

......And that is what you call anecdotal evidence. Only, your logic doesn't work. Just because something has been good for you, doesn't mean it's been good for the US economy. Here is what you said, "I think it has probably done more good than harm."

Bull. It wasn't presented as evidence. It's just my personal experience and a fact. I'm glad NAFTA is in place because it has been a big boost to my business. It's not a statement about the overall effect. I think it has done more good than harm because it has significantly increased trade between the US, Canada and Mexico with our own exports to those countries tripling in just 29 years. That's the evidence of the good. The estimated loss of around 700 ,000 jobs is the other side of the coin.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

That is a whole different argument of enormous magnitude since government sponsored entities Fannie and Freddie and government pressure on banks to make sub prime loans were at the root of this.

False.

 

[Papa bull]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

False.

Subprimes were at the very root of this. And the government out a lot of pressure on banks to issue sub primes. It 'a not even debatable. You're just denying reality , now.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Bull. It wasn't presented as evidence. It's just my personal experience and a fact. I'm glad NAFTA is in place because it has been a big boost to my business. It's not a statement about the overall effect. I think it has done more good than harm because it has significantly increased trade between the US, Canada and Mexico with our own exports to those countries tripling in just 29 years. That's the evidence of the good. The estimated loss of around 700 ,000 jobs is the other side of the coin.

Yes, lost jobs and depressed wages and a trade deficit to boot.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: The justification for wealth-redistribution.

Subprimes were at the very root of this. And the government out a lot of pressure on banks to issue sub primes. It 'a not even debatable. You're just denying reality , now.

No, you're denying reality. Government pressure to sell subprime loans was not at all the root of this bubble. That is an outright lie.