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The Iran War and the Future of the Democrats

Ikari said:
So if Trump does something ****ed up, like gets us into a shooting war with Iran, it's the Democrats fault?
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No, Dems are just complicit. Hence my focus is on correcting Dems, the only ideological lean I have any remote influence on. Dems are the resistance to fascism, supposedly. The good guys. Am I wrong?

You can draw a straight line from Trump 2016 to Biden 2020 to Trump 2024. Its the exact same strategy.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Here's your actual solution: You can implement those solutions all by yourself.

Let me know how it works out.
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It takes effort to lose to fascists clowns, and you are supplying the labor.

Anyways, anyone is free to answer OP if they're looking to be constructive.
 
Dans La Lune said:
You can draw a straight line from Trump 2016 to Biden 2020 to Trump 2024. Its the exact same strategy.
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Yeah. Progs stay home and get burned, then don't, then get all stupid again.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Did they stand by while Trump got elected, to show off their purity?
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No, they tried to exert pressure to prevent them from losing. These are gettable voters, but Dems would not do the bare minimum.
 
Dans La Lune said:
It takes effort to lose to fascists clowns, and you are supplying the labor.

Anyways, anyone is free to answer OP if they're looking to be constructive.
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You have to see thing from my POV.

Israel is full of bad people. Iran is full of bad people. Now they're fighting each other. This is good.

MAGAs are bad people. Progs are bad people. I am happy to throw metaphorical bricks at both of them. It's just multitasking.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Yeah. Progs stay home and get burned, then don't, then get all stupid again.
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I agree that Dems should stop including progs in the coalition if they can't depend on them to follow the Schumer Strategy. I would respect Dems more if they just didn't blatantly lie to attract voters they're going to betray (as Biden did in 2020).

Double down on the Cheney / MAGA swing voters. They're out there. Gotta catch 'em all.
 
They can at least be arsed to vote, unlike useless progs.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Their theory of change is to keep lobbing insults at the Left (who have actual solutions) while losing to fascists. I think think they could lose to Trump twice, but seeing is believing.
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My theory of change is to engage tactics that actually prove to be effective, which of course are grounded in logic and reasoning rather than hysteria and emotionally acting out.

The fact that the left hasn't figured out that their tactics have failed is beyond comical at this point.

Think about this--there's a well-established faction on the conservative right that's existed for nearly a decade now....the faction of "Never-Trumpers," and in spite of their existence, the left has done absolutely nothing to team up with them or independents who don't like Trump. They've had nearly 10 years to figure this out.

But because their "tactic" is to whine and call everyone names when others don't agree about every leftist issue 100% of the time, they have emboldened Trump and kept him relevant well past the time that he would've otherwise been able to stick around in politics.

10 years of doing the same shit and STILL not realizing it's not working isn't just a form of ineffectiveness. It's pervasive unintelligence on a grand scale.

MAGA hasn't been so impactful because Trump & Co. are so effective and brilliant. They've been impactful because the left is so damn moronic in its strategizing.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Yes. It probably helps you live with handing the presidency to Trump twice.
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"Vote for Dems or Everyone Dies" and nothing else gets you Trump.

I'm just one person. A random internet poster. Exclude me. Most progressives voted for Kamala in 2024. Your strategy just turned away enough progressives to allow Trump to win twice over.

Why don't you blame white male voters? They voted for Trump more than progressives didn't.

If you don't want to attract progressives, what's your strategy to attract white males? Throw trans under the bus? Tax cuts for the rich? More war on brown people?

Pick your allies. Pick your poison. If progressives are such bad people, then buck up, man up and form a strategy for winning that doesn't include them.

Go ahead.
 
Dans La Lune said:
What do you envision as the future of the Democratic Party?
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Nothing in particular, but then, I'm not a Democrat.

They'll do what they'll do. Republicans will do what they'll do. I'll vote for the lesser of two evils, as ever.


 
Me: 'You keep losing to fascists clowns and holding hands with Trump's foreign policy as he starts WW3. What's the plan?'

Hamish: 'The old plan is the plan. Nothing will change. Take it or leave it. And if we lose on OUR strategy, you get all the blame.'

 
Ok but what is your actual proposal?

Because so far it seems to be "don't lose!" Wow, genius.
 
hooligan said:
Nothing in particular, but then, I'm not a Democrat.

They'll do what they'll do. Republicans will do what they'll do. I'll vote for the lesser of two evils, as ever.


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Sure. I would vote for harm reduction if the theory of change was adequate.
 
Purity is a MAGA thing. Democrats are a big tent party.

What can be done is vote. What are your ideas?
 
Deuce said:
Ok but what is your actual proposal?

Because so far it seems to be "don't lose!" Wow, genius.
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I was asking for opinions. Do you want my proposal for a winning strategy and the umbrella from which to organize the party? Sure. I'm not shy.

A coalition between the Left and Center-Left voters against fascism, focusing on a viable progressive policy, human dignity, civil rights, de-escalation on foreign policy, humanitarian aid where necessary, and not transgressing against red line issues like genocide. I would make this the broad agenda; the base level of entry into the coalition. Moderates would then have to decide on who to caucus with; the fascist right, or the progressive left. I would rather the compromise be towards solutions and ideas that the voters want, not asking progressive to eat half a pile or shit every single time.

I can expand upon it if you want.
 
Michael Cole said:
Purity is a MAGA thing. Democrats are a big tent party.

What can be done is vote. What are your ideas?
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The bare minimum. Otherwise you drift rightward, and end up in the exact position we're currently at.

Post in thread 'The Iran War and the Future of the Democrats'

Deuce said:
Ok but what is your actual proposal?

Because so far it seems to be "don't lose!" Wow, genius.
Click to expand...

I was asking for opinions. Do you want my proposal for a winning strategy and the umbrella from which to organize the party? Sure. I'm not shy.

A coalition between the Left and Center-Left voters against fascism, focusing on a viable progressive policy, human dignity, civil rights, de-escalation on foreign policy, humanitarian aid where necessary, and not transgressing against red line issues like genocide. I would make this the broad agenda; the base level of entry into the...

 
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