The inheritance tax

[TurtleDude]

Look, I don't have any solution where the government is not involved and I don't want the government involved, but I don't believe anyone should get something for nothing either. Make your damn useless progeny go to college, get a job and earn his own way in life just like I'm sure you expect everyone else to do.

you seem bitter. Do you realize how many professional athletes are professional athletes because of the financial support and GENES they received from their parents. some of the top professional ladies tennis players are there because of that-and that is the most lucrative sport for women. Caroline Wozniacki's father was a professional soccer player. Svetlana Kuznetsova's father and mother were world class bike racers, Coco Vandeweghe is from a family of NBA stars, Lindsay Davenport's father was an Olympic Volleyball player etc. so do you want to tax the genes those ladies inherited.

Make your "useless progeny" sounds like your argument has nothing to do with liberty or fairness but some serious personal issues

 

[TurtleDude]

I consider someone that succeeds because of the wealth of their parents just as big a failure as anyone else that gets something for doing nothing. What's wrong with earning your own way in life?

I consider people who worry about that to be silly. and lots of kids had advantages-be it superior intelligence, a home environment that supported scholarship or athletic achievement. those people don't cost me money either. You seem rather bitter. is there something we should know about your background? I am thankful I came from two parents who were high achievers and made sure I achieved to the point where I was accepted into two of the most competitive colleges in the world and did well enough there to get into most of the top law schools and as a result had a very good career in a job that was extremely important that I could take even though it didn't pay as well as other offers I had, because I could afford to work for the DOJ instead of having to work at some big Bucks law firm if I had a mountain of debt.

You'd be better off not worrying about what others do as long as they aren't imposing costs on you

 

[Bob0627]

Do you honestly believe that?

Hell yeah, the vast majority in the US government are self serving (and/or corporate stooges) who rob The People ("legitimized" under color of law as taxes - an endless array of these) to benefit themselves and those whom they serve (the corporations). I'm not saying all of them are like that but unfortunately the vast majority are.

 

[longview]

I consider someone that succeeds because of the wealth of their parents just as big a failure as anyone else that gets something for doing nothing. What's wrong with earning your own way in life?

There is nothing wrong with a person earning their own way.
There is also nothing wrong with a parent doing all they can to ensure their children
are positioned well to succeed in life.
I thought my own children starting out with college degrees and no student debt,
was a good place to say "Live long and prosper"!
For others it might be that 18th birthday.
We are each free to choose how much, or little we help our kids.
It is not a perfect system, but freedom seldom is!

 

[Unrepresented]

envy much?

I'm indeed envious.

I'm envious of systems with greater equality of opportunity, less blatant, entrenched nepotism, and greater focus on collective good.

 

[TurtleDude]

Your way overestimating the number of people affected by the estate tax and insurance company owners, CPAs and Lawyers who love it.

uh one percent pay the tax, another several try to avoid it. that's millions of people. and unfair is unfair-numbers don't change that

the reason why the death tax remains is the pimps in office realize that most people are not victimized by it

 

[blaxshep]

you are anti liberty and it appears that envy is what is contradicting sound libertarian principles. you think the government has a greater right to personal wealth based on your distaste that some are "luckier" than you are.

Calling it envy is a convenient excuse to hide behind, the enemy of liberty is individuals and dynasties that use their power and influence to dictate the course of government over the will of the Republic of people.

 

[TurtleDude]

Calling it envy is a convenient excuse to hide behind, the enemy of liberty is individuals and dynasties that use their power and influence to dictate the course of government over the will of the Republic of people.

so you a libertarian's solution to several million people inheriting money without being raped by the government-to prevent a collection of wealth is to collect that wealth in the hands of a greedy and wasteful government

good thinking there dude

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm indeed envious.

I'm envious of systems with greater equality of opportunity, less blatant, entrenched nepotism, and greater focus on collective good.

:bs

its wealth vandalism you support. If you cannot have it, you don't want someone else to

 

[Unrepresented]

neither do greedy governments or envious failures who are mad other people had prosperous parents. and the money is going to live people

Government isn't an end receiver, it's an intermediary.

I consider it a more accountable and objective arbiter than dead individuals.

 

[ocean515]

Calling it envy is a convenient excuse to hide behind, the enemy of liberty is individuals and dynasties that use their power and influence to dictate the course of government over the will of the Republic of people.

I don't believe anyone is hiding behind the fact that envy is the basis for complaints. There are no families and dynasties dictating the course of government. That is a claim pulled from some Dickens like narrative the left is hoping people buy in to.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your point.
When you write:

It's question of whether or not you think this is a good thing for American democracy.
Should we have a group of families who can wield undue influence over our government?

Some people say, "No, a new version of aristocracy is a bad thing for America."
Some people say, "Yes, a new version of aristocracy is a good thing for America."​

What families are you referring to? What aristocracy are you suggesting exists?

If there were no inheritance tax,
and if we assume that someone with money is more likely to make more money that someone without money,
that leads us to the conclusion that families will accrue larger and larger amounts of money as the generations go by.

If we also accept the principle that money is speech in re politics,
then the families with more money have the potential for more "speech" and influence with politicians.

The two taken together lead to families which can have influence in the govt (via politicians) which far outweigh the influence of their fellow citizens.
Which, imho, sounds functionally similar to the aristocracy ala the "Old Worlde" we struggled to leave behind.

 

[blaxshep]

so you a libertarian's solution to several million people inheriting money without being raped by the government-to prevent a collection of wealth is to collect that wealth in the hands of a greedy and wasteful government

good thinking there dude

No, the thinking is that individuals can make their own way in life. You are the one that seems to think I want the government to have the wealth. I'd rather see, after your death, all your assets put in a huge pile and set on fire.

Funny how the rich are so dead set against anyone getting something for nothing, except for themselves and their progeny.

 

[Winchester]

uh one percent pay the tax, another several try to avoid it. that's millions of people. and unfair is unfair-numbers don't change that

the reason why the death tax remains is the pimps in office realize that most people are not victimized by it

Try .2%... 2 out of every 1,000. I'm not justifying the tax, just stating that you're overestimating the number of people who love it because they make a living advising people how to avoid it. Personally I'd rather see no estate tax combined with no step up in basis. Then the heirs could avoid paying taxes on gains until such a time as they chose to sell the inherited property. If it's property such as cash in the bank where the income tax has already been paid, well then no estate tax and no income tax.

I don't think the vast number of people who don't have to deal with estate tax right now would like it though.

 

[longview]

Government isn't an end receiver, it's an intermediary.

I consider it a more accountable and objective arbiter than dead individuals.

And in your will, you are free to specify that the Government receive all of your
money and property!

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Hell yeah, the vast majority in the US government are self serving (and/or corporate stooges) who rob The People ("legitimized" under color of law as taxes - an endless array of these) to benefit themselves and those whom they serve (the corporations). I'm not saying all of them are like that but unfortunately the vast majority are.

You think that our standing military, our interstate highway system, etc count as nothing?

 

[blaxshep]

I don't believe anyone is hiding behind the fact that envy is the basis for complaints. There are no families and dynasties dictating the course of government. That is a claim pulled from some Dickens like narrative the left is hoping people buy in to.

That is utter BS. The government is continuously being dictated to, you think people and corporations "donate" millions and spend millions lobbying expecting nothing in return?

 

[Unrepresented]

I wish you had the same attitude towards government and those sucking on the government tit

wealth vandals ignore the fact that the person who earns money, pays taxes on it should have an absolute right to determine who gets the money. Not envious strangers who are mad they didn't have rich parents. Not some parasitic pimp in office who sees that wealth as a means to buy the votes of envious losers

I view collectivism as a means to protect and enhance individualism.

 

[Winchester]

No, the thinking is that individuals can make their own way in life. You are the one that seems to think I want the government to have the wealth. I'd rather see, after your death, all your assets put in a huge pile and set on fire.

Funny how the rich are so dead set against anyone getting something for nothing, except for themselves and their progeny.

You going to disinherit you progeny? Personally if I have anything left I'd like to see my kids get it.

 

[ocean515]

If there were no inheritance tax,
and if we assume that someone with money is more likely to make more money that someone without money,
that leads us to the conclusion that families will accrue larger and larger amounts of money as the generations go by.
If we also accept the principle that money is speech in re politics,
then the families with more money have the potential for more "speech" and influence with politicians.
The two taken together lead to families which can have influence in the govt (via politicians) which far outweigh the influence of their fellow citizens.
Which, imho, sounds functionally similar to the aristocracy ala the "Old Worlde" we struggled to leave behind.

I think it's best to leave Old World stories where they belong, in the Old World.

I think your assumptions are born from story lines from that era.

Who in government decides how much wealth is enough? Who gets to decide how much "influence" one individual is allowed to have?

 

[Unrepresented]

:bs

its wealth vandalism you support. If you cannot have it, you don't want someone else to

Your argument appears based on the fallacy that intergenerational relationships are individuals.

I believe that individuals are individuals.

 

[blaxshep]

You going to disinherit you progeny? Personally if I have anything left I'd like to see my kids get it.

I see no reason why people can not make their own way in life.

The problem, as I see it, is that consolidation of wealth (Power) in the form of Dynasties is counter to the preservation of liberty. Now if you can think of a way to eliminate the influence of wealth on the people's government I'm all ears.

 

[Winchester]

I see no reason why people can not make their own way in life.

The problem, as I see it, is that consolidation of wealth (Power) in the form of Dynasties is counter to the preservation of liberty. Now if you can think of a way to eliminate the influence of wealth on the people's government I'm all ears.

There is no way, it's the way of the world. It's an immutable fact.

 

[ocean515]

That is utter BS. The government is continuously being dictated to, you think people and corporations "donate" millions and spend millions lobbying expecting nothing in return?

No it's not BS. It's a fact.

Do I think people expect something in return for their money? Absolutely. Otherwise, why spend it? Do not any dollars given to a campaign or cause come with some expectation?

Do I think the billions raised by Presidential candidates come with expectations? Of course they do.

All the arguments regarding inheritance taxes aside, the call for massive increases, if not 100%, boil down to nothing but the envious cry of those who wish they could be in the others place.

 

[Unrepresented]

And in your will, you are free to specify that the Government receive all of your
money and property!

The idea is systemic reform.