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The incel epidemic

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Rambozo

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To the best of my knowledge, the demographic who makes up incels tends to fit the following criteria;

1. Believes they're entitled to sex and blame women or society as whole. Think that if they were allowed to "oppress" women, it would lead to them being able to have sex

2. Thinks they're entitled to date "conventionally attractive women", but that women shouldn't dare have any superficial attraction preferences (e.x. preferring to date men who are more socially confident, or to not to date men who are short or obese).

3. Think that they shouldn't have to have any personal standards or change themselves in any way, but are still entitled to a relationship or sex

4. Believe that women only care about superficial traits such as looks or wealth (while at the same time, they themselves only care about women who they find "conventionally attractive").

So while I'll go off on a limb, and assume that many of them have been bullied and may have problems with social interaction, their personality and character are seriously defective. Maybe they imagine that if they were rich or handsome, that they'd have an easier time getting laid, and while that might be true, if their personality was still what it is, they would be seriously dysfunctional as individuals and have seriously dysfunctional relationships.

Therefore, I'm not sure what can be done about them, since the problems are one of morality and character, and not merely one of social or psychological dysfunction. I'm also not entirely convinced that they are an "epidemic", since similar individuals have been around long before the word "incel" came into being, such as the Columbine killers.
 
Rambozo said:
To the best of my knowledge, the demographic who makes up incels tends to fit the following criteria;

1. Believes they're entitled to sex and blame women or society as whole. Think that if they were allowed to "oppress" women, it would lead to them being able to have sex

2. Thinks they're entitled to date "conventionally attractive women", but that women shouldn't dare have any superficial attraction preferences (e.x. preferring to date men who are more socially confident, or to not to date men who are short or obese).

3. Think that they shouldn't have to have any personal standards or change themselves in any way, but are still entitled to a relationship or sex

4. Believe that women only care about superficial traits such as looks or wealth (while at the same time, they themselves only care about women who they find "conventionally attractive").

So while I'll go off on a limb, and assume that many of them have been bullied and may have problems with social interaction, their personality and character are seriously defective. Maybe they imagine that if they were rich or handsome, that they'd have an easier time getting laid, and while that might be true, if their personality was still what it is, they would be seriously dysfunctional as individuals and have seriously dysfunctional relationships.

Therefore, I'm not sure what can be done about them, since the problems are one of morality and character, and not merely one of social or psychological dysfunction. I'm also not entirely convinced that they are an "epidemic", since similar individuals have been around long before the word "incel" came into being, such as the Columbine killers.
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Interesting commentary. I'll be honest and tell you that I've never considered the topic of incels. In fact, I had to look up the definition to find out what an incel is. Because of this, I really don't feel qualified to weigh in on the topic. I asked an AI...Copilot...to give me an analysis of your post and I've also asked Copilot to construct a response to your post. I'll present that response here.

please draft a reply

Absolutely, Mycroft. Here’s a draft reply that challenges the original post’s moral framing while offering a more nuanced perspective—without excusing toxic behavior:

Reply:

I think your post captures some of the more toxic patterns found in incel communities, especially the entitlement and hypocrisy around attraction and self-improvement. That said, I’d push back on the idea that the core issue is simply one of “defective character.”

There’s a difference between moral failure and maladaptive coping. Many incels are socially isolated, depressed, or struggling with rejection in a culture that increasingly commodifies relationships. That doesn’t excuse misogyny or violent rhetoric—but it does suggest that the roots are more complex than just bad personality.

You mention that they imagine wealth or looks would solve their problems, and in some cases, they’re probably right—at least in terms of access. But the deeper dysfunction isn’t just about personality; it’s about how they’ve internalized rejection and externalized blame. That’s a psychological loop, not just a moral one.

Also, comparing them to the Columbine killers feels like rhetorical overreach. Yes, some incel-linked individuals have committed violence, but most are not violent. Lumping them in with mass murderers risks obscuring the broader social dynamics at play.

If we want to address this subculture meaningfully, we need to look at how online echo chambers reinforce grievance, how economic and social precarity fuel resentment, and how alienation warps identity. Condemnation alone won’t fix it—and might even deepen the divide.​

So Rambozo...would you care to respond to Copilot?

btw, if you like, I can also present Copilot's analysis of your OP. Let me know if you want that, too.
 
Rambozo said:
To the best of my knowledge, the demographic who makes up incels tends to fit the following criteria;

1. Believes they're entitled to sex and blame women or society as whole. Think that if they were allowed to "oppress" women, it would lead to them being able to have sex

2. Thinks they're entitled to date "conventionally attractive women", but that women shouldn't dare have any superficial attraction preferences (e.x. preferring to date men who are more socially confident, or to not to date men who are short or obese).

3. Think that they shouldn't have to have any personal standards or change themselves in any way, but are still entitled to a relationship or sex

4. Believe that women only care about superficial traits such as looks or wealth (while at the same time, they themselves only care about women who they find "conventionally attractive").

So while I'll go off on a limb, and assume that many of them have been bullied and may have problems with social interaction, their personality and character are seriously defective. Maybe they imagine that if they were rich or handsome, that they'd have an easier time getting laid, and while that might be true, if their personality was still what it is, they would be seriously dysfunctional as individuals and have seriously dysfunctional relationships.

Therefore, I'm not sure what can be done about them, since the problems are one of morality and character, and not merely one of social or psychological dysfunction. I'm also not entirely convinced that they are an "epidemic", since similar individuals have been around long before the word "incel" came into being, such as the Columbine killers.
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Video games, internet dating apps, and porn have ruined alot of men.
 
1/2

As a young man I can speak to this phenomenon.

The GENUINE incels are extremely rare and 99% of time just have autism or misanthropic in general. The breakdown in social communication and architecture basically means that like 20% of our generation is autistic, but these guys have it real bad, and if you cant read the room socially then you just aren't gonna make it. I would say that there was 1 kid at my highschool that was incel, and he was just so awkward socially, and there was obviously a screw loose. He asked out tons of girls and then always get rejected and then post on social media about his loneliness. The actual incels, aka men who cant get laid for the life of them, are almost always the ones who were just never gonna make it at any time of history either, and inceldom communities is the modern outlet for them. It was honestly very sad because this wasn't a bad kid by any means, he had loving parents, very smart in history classes, etc, but his brother was diagnosed autistic and well...obviously the genes reached him as well.

The reason why I bring up social skills and autism, is because otherwise, it literally does not matter. Fat people, ugly people, nerds with glasses, cringe theater kids, etc all got laid in highschool and college simply because they were a match for each other. There was no cognitive or social hurdle to be had, it just happened. In fact the longest relationships and the ones that are surviving are certainly not among the people I would deem "attractive" or "popular". If you ever have the displeasure of meeting an incel, you'll know what I'm talking about, there is a screw loose and undiagnosed autism or older parents who cant relate to the kid or psychological damage thanks to the internet, etc, etc. We get caught up in blaming incels and labelling them pathetic but the reality is that it's a scapegoat for the symptoms of modern internet use and a breakdown in social skills. I mean just look at Pirates pitcher Paul Skenes, there is absolutely no reason for that guy to be that boring and have such little communication skills. Not only is it vital for your job as a team athlete, but you go through life being the star athlete with a hot gf and you cant even talk with any enthusiasm in your voice? Half of my generation acts like that btw, and the other half are otherwise autistic + awkward/nonverbal/neurologically sick. In short, it's mental illness.

What is WAY more pervasive and what has had actual influence on young men are the redpill + Christian content. I can not tell you how many people I know who get funneled into this content and are ruining their lives because of it. These are essentially Christian influencers who want to promote the trad life and claim that the modern world is killing them so you need to eat protein and lift and stop using sunscreen and go live on a log cabin far awar, etc. Basically fox news on steroids. NOW THESE are the people who fit the typical incel category. These are the men who are normal and are in friend groups but seem to be one getting the least *****. These are the guys who go to bars and sports games and see women all dressed up and get frustrated by their failures. These are the guys who are in big friend groups with girls and guys but seem to be the odd one out and never match with a girl while the others all gossip over one another. What's really ironic is that otherwise popular, attractive, and athletic kids determine that hookup culture and partying is not for them, starting a trend on social media like what has happened, and now the guys who didnt really do any of that get tricked and cope into thinking "this is the right way, I'm totally gonna get a trad wife". I can go on and on and the roots really do come from how American society is just kinda...set up in general, especially adolescent friend groups originating from common interests and not forced proximity like it is in European classrooms, whereby people who are on say the baseball team are forced to be together so now the "less cool" kids on the team want to be like the cooler ones who hang out with hot girls but he doesnt really understand that his likely GF is probably in the book club but he wont join that cause dad wants him to be an athlete on the baseball team, etc, etc. If you are bottom to mid of the totem pole in a "cooler" domain-sports team, party college, etc this is the "casual incel" group, and it so prone to propaganda and pretty much 80% of this group has been politically radicalized by Christian/redpill/Andrew Tate content.
 
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It really are the normal guys who either get jealous or see the party they're missing and now they're "trad Christians". Cause otherwise you are some other weird niche and find a partner that way. I am telling you being an incel or struggling with dating is a normal person's issue and you wouldn't expect it, but weird kids are ****ing like animals. Shorter stature, higher BMI, and higher likelihood of diseases and neurological disorders are literally being sexually selected for. So the redpill and even feminist argument "oh incels are natural selection, we are just selecting better mates" is flat wrong.
 
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Is this why we have so many unhinged people here in DP? Frustrated the dont get what they want sexually, so they take it out their frustrations here?
 
I think the INCEL "epidemic" is just another bloom on the decaying family tree in the US.

As the costs of living have risen, the grown ups have turned their exploits to funding the activities of daily living and less toward building character in the kids. In the 1960's we were still using chamber pots. Now, 99%+ of the residences in the US have running water as of 2020--60 years later. I use that as a barometer because it is indicative of the affluence that these same grown-ups have chased (in addition to the COLA). I think it was the late 70's when Waylon and Willie were singing about a "We've been so busy keeping up with the Jones four car garage and we're still building on." I do the same thing.

INCELs are a product. As are mal-adjusted women. They get pregnant long before they are ready to be mothers and raise mal-adjusted kids.

It sure seems like there could be an entity--a network-- of empty nesters who would gladly help out young families with children and help raise them right; or what we consider the "right" way. Just a thought.
 
Rambozo said:
To the best of my knowledge, the demographic who makes up incels tends to fit the following criteria;

1. Believes they're entitled to sex and blame women or society as whole. Think that if they were allowed to "oppress" women, it would lead to them being able to have sex

2. Thinks they're entitled to date "conventionally attractive women", but that women shouldn't dare have any superficial attraction preferences (e.x. preferring to date men who are more socially confident, or to not to date men who are short or obese).

3. Think that they shouldn't have to have any personal standards or change themselves in any way, but are still entitled to a relationship or sex

4. Believe that women only care about superficial traits such as looks or wealth (while at the same time, they themselves only care about women who they find "conventionally attractive").

So while I'll go off on a limb, and assume that many of them have been bullied and may have problems with social interaction, their personality and character are seriously defective. Maybe they imagine that if they were rich or handsome, that they'd have an easier time getting laid, and while that might be true, if their personality was still what it is, they would be seriously dysfunctional as individuals and have seriously dysfunctional relationships.

Therefore, I'm not sure what can be done about them, since the problems are one of morality and character, and not merely one of social or psychological dysfunction. I'm also not entirely convinced that they are an "epidemic", since similar individuals have been around long before the word "incel" came into being, such as the Columbine killers.
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I don't think this is unique to men.

Being entitled in thinking you deserve something is a character flaw.

Yeah I didn't think it's an epidemic either.
 
dncc said:
I think the INCEL "epidemic" is just another bloom on the decaying family tree in the US.

As the costs of living have risen, the grown ups have turned their exploits to funding the activities of daily living and less toward building character in the kids. In the 1960's we were still using chamber pots. Now, 99%+ of the residences in the US have running water as of 2020--60 years later. I use that as a barometer because it is indicative of the affluence that these same grown-ups have chased (in addition to the COLA). I think it was the late 70's when Waylon and Willie were singing about a "We've been so busy keeping up with the Jones four car garage and we're still building on." I do the same thing.

INCELs are a product. As are mal-adjusted women. They get pregnant long before they are ready to be mothers and raise mal-adjusted kids.
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The trend is women are getting pregnant later in life and having fewer children.
dncc said:
It sure seems like there could be an entity--a network-- of empty nesters who would gladly help out young families with children and help raise them right; or what we consider the "right" way. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Not sure why you would think that.
 
One common denominator among Incel types is they don't want to know about themselves, nevertheless, for reference:

humanrights.ca

Online misogyny: the “manosphere” | CMHR

Digital misogyny is on the rise. Why do some men and boys get drawn into – and even seek out – extremist influencers and groups?
humanrights.ca humanrights.ca
 
People having bad luck in relationships and becoming cynical about the opposite sex as a result isn't new. What's new is that these people can now find each other on social media, wallow in their misery together, and trade venomous stories about how shitty the opposite sex is. From there it becomes a self-reinforcing cesspool of hate, where they get validation for their feelings instead of good advice on how to make better choices. And of course that's going to attract other haters to join the party. So I don't think it's necessarily an epidemic, it's more like an assembly.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I don't think this is unique to men.

Being entitled in thinking you deserve something is a character flaw.

Yeah I didn't think it's an epidemic either.
Click to expand...
I have to agree. The entitlement childish "I want it now mommy" attitude that I find so annoying in people.
 
Rambozo said:
Thinks they're entitled to date "conventionally attractive women", but that women shouldn't dare have any superficial attraction preferences (e.x. preferring to date men who are more socially confident, or to not to date men who are short or obese).
Click to expand...

It's analogous to a union worker who thinks he's entitled to a six figure salary while insisting employers have no right to pick who they hire. Both labor and dating are markets - two sides making choices. You don't get to demand top pay, or the top women, without competing on what the other side actually values.
 
Rambozo said:
To the best of my knowledge, the demographic who makes up incels tends to fit the following criteria;

1. Believes they're entitled to sex and blame women or society as whole. Think that if they were allowed to "oppress" women, it would lead to them being able to have sex

2. Thinks they're entitled to date "conventionally attractive women", but that women shouldn't dare have any superficial attraction preferences (e.x. preferring to date men who are more socially confident, or to not to date men who are short or obese).

3. Think that they shouldn't have to have any personal standards or change themselves in any way, but are still entitled to a relationship or sex

4. Believe that women only care about superficial traits such as looks or wealth (while at the same time, they themselves only care about women who they find "conventionally attractive").

So while I'll go off on a limb, and assume that many of them have been bullied and may have problems with social interaction, their personality and character are seriously defective. Maybe they imagine that if they were rich or handsome, that they'd have an easier time getting laid, and while that might be true, if their personality was still what it is, they would be seriously dysfunctional as individuals and have seriously dysfunctional relationships.

Therefore, I'm not sure what can be done about them, since the problems are one of morality and character, and not merely one of social or psychological dysfunction. I'm also not entirely convinced that they are an "epidemic", since similar individuals have been around long before the word "incel" came into being, such as the Columbine killers.
Click to expand...
On what do you base your opinion?
 
aociswundumho said:
It's analogous to a union worker who thinks he's entitled to a six figure salary while insisting employers have no right to pick who they hire. Both labor and dating are markets - two sides making choices. You don't get to demand top pay, or the top women, without competing on what the other side actually values.
Click to expand...
Dont get me started with how once proud unions have gone to shit. What ever happened to "Union Pride?" I have not seen that for a very long time.
 
BirdinHand said:
These types of people have always existed.

They simply have a larger platform now on the internet.

The problem is the toxicity spewed from some of them - and how it impacts and influences others.
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Yes, and it seems social and dating habits have changed for a generation or two.

Ever since the TV series Friends became popular it either changed the TV generations or Friends successfully reflected the TV generations. Group socialization and group "dating" exhibits a change in individualization. People frequently have a group agreement to get together and within that so form of dating can take place. Individualism takes a back seat. Group socialization changed people skills and males can and do rely on the security of a socially approved group behavior. Men thus are less adept at going it alone.

Young women have a biological right of passage that young men do not have. Getting their period is a physical and mental change that is universally recognized.

For reasons that could fill a dedicated and separate thread young men are "softer" than they used to be, they frequently seem less self assured. Hell, most young men are unqualified to pass the physical tests to serve in the U.S. military.

I don't know about young women but I believe it is more confusing these days being a young man.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Yes, and it seems social and dating habits have changed for a generation or two.

Ever since the TV series Friends became popular it either changed the TV generations or Friends successfully reflected the TV generations. Group socialization and group "dating" exhibits a change in individualization. People frequently have a group agreement to get together and within that so form of dating can take place. Individualism takes a back seat. Group socialization changed people skills and males can and do rely on the security of a socially approved group behavior. Men thus are less adept at going it alone.

Young women have a biological right of passage that young men do not have. Getting their period is a physical and mental change that is universally recognized.

For reasons that could fill a dedicated and separate thread young men are "softer" than they used to be, they frequently seem less self assured. Hell, most young men are unqualified to pass the physical tests to serve in the U.S. military.

I don't know about young women but I believe it is more confusing these days being a young man.
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Have people not always had groups of friends?

I don’t understand your point here?
 
dncc said:
It sure seems like there could be an entity--a network-- of empty nesters who would gladly help out young families with children and help raise them right; or what we consider the "right" way. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Well unless I'm a completely atypical empty-nester not a chance. Even though my kids are grown they stil actually need us from time to time and when they don't we're spending our time catching up on 25 years worth of things we wanted to do but couldn't while raising ours.
 
Risky Thicket said:
For reasons that could fill a dedicated and separate thread young men are "softer" than they used to be, they frequently seem less self assured. Hell, most young men are unqualified to pass the physical tests to serve in the U.S. military.
Click to expand...
This has been my observation as well. I thought maybe it's just the young men I happen to run into but many seem downright timid. Not so with many of the young women I know. Most are self-assured and just go about getting the job done.
 
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