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The Grassley/Graham Memo is Even More Damaging Than the Nunes Memo

RAMOSS said:
Prove it.
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You are asking me to prove a negative.

We have the Steele dossier which makes the claim and several pieces of evidence which dispute it including Cohen's travel documents. The Dossier claims that he was in Prague in "late August or early September" but his travel documents clearly show that he left Italy in July and was indeed in the US in August.

You can cling to this if you choose or you can just come to grips with the fact that what was written by Steele was pure ka ka.
 
azgreg said:
So? Steele says he was and if the only thing that disproves it is his passport then it hasn't been disproven.
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He left Italy in July and went back home. He was not in Europe at the time the dossier claims. This is confirmed by his passport and backed up by witnesses.
 
azgreg said:
So? Steele says he was and if the only thing that disproves it is his passport then it hasn't been disproven.
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You do realize that when your plane lands in Europe the first thing that happens is you go through customs and they stamp your passport, right? And when you return from Europe and land in the U.S. you also go through customs and they stamp your passport, right?

He left Italy in July and returned to the U.S. His passport shows this. What it doesn't show is that he returned to Europe in August. It would show this if he did.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
You do realize that when your plane lands in Europe the first thing that happens is you go through customs and they stamp your passport, right? And when you return from Europe and land in the U.S. you also go through customs and they stamp your passport, right?

He left Italy in July and returned to the U.S. His passport shows this. What it doesn't show is that he returned to Europe in August. It would show this if he did.
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It get you, fair enough. I kind of drifted off my point that just because his passport didn't have a Prague stamp doesn't mean he didn't travel there. Carry on. :2razz:
 
Jack Fabulous said:
You are asking me to prove a negative.

We have the Steele dossier which makes the claim and several pieces of evidence which dispute it including Cohen's travel documents. The Dossier claims that he was in Prague in "late August or early September" but his travel documents clearly show that he left Italy in July and was indeed in the US in August.

You can cling to this if you choose or you can just come to grips with the fact that what was written by Steele was pure ka ka.
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Why, it is possible to prove a negative. To show it, all you have to do is show exactly where he was (which is a positive). He passport showed he entered Italy, which would allow access to Prague without trace. If you showed .. well, where he exactly was during that time frame, and it wasn't Prague, that is a positive piece of evidence that would show he didn't go there. The passport given as evidence doesn't support the claim it is impossible, but rather shows it is indeed possible.
So, we can say that the claim in the dossier is not verified, we can not say it is disproven and a lie, which is what you claimed.

And, a point you are ignoring, that piece of unverified information was not used in getting the FISA warrant... but only those parts that specifically have to do with Carter Page.
 
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RAMOSS said:
Is it?? It's full of allegations, and twisting. But do, continue. It's a lie that the FBI used a yahoo article. IN fact, the Grassley Grahame memo denies that Nunes claim about that. From Grassley releases declassified version of Steele DOJ criminal referral - Business Insider
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The FBI either lied to FISC when they claimed they didnt know who the source was for the Yahoo article or that the Yahoo article was based on the dossier or Steele lied to the FBI and they continued to vouch for his credibility and use the dossier in the FISA renewal applications after he lied to them and after the dossier had been leaked to the media

Its either or, and niether are good news for the FBI or the Democrats.

I think its fairly obvious the FBI LIED to the FISC court.

Go read the Michael Isikoff article in question, there's no way the worlds premier investigative agency did not know that artircle was just regurgitating the allegations from the dossier.

Something else the Left keeps ignoring is the fact that Obama's assistant deputy AG, Bruce Ohr was one of their sources for Hillary campaign funded oppo-research

His wife worked for Fusion GPS and I guarantee they didn't disclose to FISC that a senior DOJ official was funneling some of the information to them
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
There is more evidence of wrong doing by people in the fbi, the clintons, obama and the democrat party than there is by Trump here.


The media is all but giving a pass and playing coverage for these criminals and the alt-left true believers are not intellectually curious enough to see for themselves what is and what isn't.
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Actually there has been no evidence presented in court of law of wrongdoing by either BObama or HRClinton...nor has there been any presented in the case of the United States of America vs. Donald John Trump...as of yet.

So you are correct on both counts.
 
RAMOSS said:
And, a point you are ignoring, that piece of unverified information was not used in getting the FISA warrant... but only those parts that specifically have to do with Carter Page.
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I'm not ignoring that point. We just got sidetracked by the Cohen matter.

Concerning Carter Page, if you read the Graham-Grassley referral you will see it is revealed that the Steele dossier relies exclusively on Russian government officials as the basis for these claims. By definition this means that the intel in the dossier has never been verified. I mean, seriously, how could it be? Yes, it is possible that the Russians who gave this information to Steele were telling the truth but then it also means that a FISA court relied on the statements of Russians to grant a warrant to spy on an American citizen.
 
Fenton said:
The FBI either lied to FISC when they claimed they didnt know who the source was for the Yahoo article or that the Yahoo article was based on the dossier or Steele lied to the FBI and they continued to vouch for his credibility and use the dossier in the FISA renewal applications after he lied to them and after the dossier had been leaked to the media

Its either or, and niether are good news for the FBI or the Democrats.

I think its fairly obvious the FBI LIED to the FISC court.

Go read the Michael Isikoff article in question, there's no way the worlds premier investigative agency did not know that artircle was just regurgitating the allegations from the dossier.

Something else the Left keeps ignoring is the fact that Obama's assistant deputy AG, Bruce Ohr was one of their sources for Hillary campaign funded oppo-research

His wife worked for Fusion GPS and I guarantee they didn't disclose to FISC that a senior DOJ official was funneling some of the information to them
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Your claim does not match the facts. It is, however, a conservative spin that is not relevant.
 
RAMOSS said:
Your claim does not match the facts. It is, however, a conservative spin that is not relevant.
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Of-course my claim matches the facts.

The FBI misled the FISC court when they continued to assert in the FISA renewals that Steele was not the source of the Yahoo article, even though he testified in Court papers that not only was he the source for the Yahoo article, he was directed by Simpson ( by Hillary's campaign ) to leak the dossier.

Simpson testified to this ( thanks Fienstein ! Lol ! ) The FBI relied more heavily on Steele's credibility than any other single verified source even AFTER he supposedly misled them

They also relied on Hilllary funded oppo-research from Bruce Ohr and Sidney Bluementhal

Face it, the Democrats have been busted in a scandal that makes Nixons dirty tricks campaign look like childs play and the only people claiming these memo's are a " dud " have either not read them or just cannot comprehend what they're reading
 
Fenton said:
Of-course my claim matches the facts.

The FBI misled the FISC court when they continued to assert in the FISA renewals that Steele was not the source of the Yahoo article, even though he testified in Court papers that not only was he the source for the Yahoo article, he was directed by Simpson ( by Hillary's campaign ) to leak the dossier.

Simpson testified to this ( thanks Fienstein ! Lol ! ) The FBI relied more heavily on Steele's credibility than any other single verified source even AFTER he supposedly misled them

They also relied on Hilllary funded oppo-research from Bruce Ohr and Sidney Bluementhal

Face it, the Democrats have been busted in a scandal that makes Nixons dirty tricks campaign look like childs play and the only people claiming these memo's are a " dud " have either not read them or just cannot comprehend what they're reading
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The thing is, .. you are getting yoru claims from a biased source who admites they didn't read the FISA application, and is countered by the person who you know, actually did. So, your claims are null and void.
 
RAMOSS said:
Why, it is possible to prove a negative. To show it, all you have to do is show exactly where he was (which is a positive). He passport showed he entered Italy, which would allow access to Prague without trace. If you showed .. well, where he exactly was during that time frame, and it wasn't Prague, that is a positive piece of evidence that would show he didn't go there. The passport given as evidence doesn't support the claim it is impossible, but rather shows it is indeed possible.
So, we can say that the claim in the dossier is not verified, we can not say it is disproven and a lie, which is what you claimed.

And, a point you are ignoring, that piece of unverified information was not used in getting the FISA warrant... but only those parts that specifically have to do with Carter Page.
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It turns out that during the time that Steels says he was in Prague he was actually in LA visiting his kid at USC.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...is-fake-news-meant-to-malign-mr-trump/512762/

Cohen said that during the time the report places him in Prague, he was actually with his son visiting USC and meeting with the baseball coach. A USC baseball source confirmed Tuesday night that Cohen and his son had visited USC on August 29th. Cohen said that he was in Los Angeles from the 23rd through the 29th of August, and that the rest of the month he was in New York. He said that his only trip to an EU country over the summer had been a vacation to Italy in July. In one instance, the dossier places the alleged Prague travel in "August/September 2016." Cohen said he was in New York for the entire month of September.
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RAMOSS said:
The thing is, .. you are getting yoru claims from a biased source who admites they didn't read the FISA application, and is countered by the person who you know, actually did. So, your claims are null and void.
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Im getting my information from the Grassley memo, which includes footnotes from the actual FISA applications

If anyone is relying on biased sources and a uniformed analysis about the evidence thats been presented so far its YOU.
 
azgreg said:
It turns out that during the time that Steels says he was in Prague he was actually in LA visiting his kid at USC.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...is-fake-news-meant-to-malign-mr-trump/512762/
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Well, it covers a specific part of august.. (the 23rd to the 29th). that 1/4th of the month. However, the august does not match up with the passporort, so the dossier is in error (at least when it comes to the date). It does weaken the claims.,.. which was not used for the warrent anyway.
 
azgreg said:
Pertaining to Prague, his passport shows he went to Italy so Cohen’s passport would not show any record of a visit to Prague if he entered the EU through Italy, traveled to the Czech Republic, and then returned to his point of EU entry.
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Which is likely what he did so his passport would not show his visit. He's a sleazy lawyer after all. One thing is clear, you cannot trust anyone in the Trump camp to tell the truth.....ever.
 
Fenton said:
Im getting my information from the Grassley memo, which includes footnotes from the actual FISA applications

If anyone is relying on biased sources and a uniformed analysis about the evidence thats been presented so far its YOU.
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And, the grassley memo misrepresents things..
 
RAMOSS said:
The thing is, .. you are getting yoru claims from a biased source who admites they didn't read the FISA application, and is countered by the person who you know, actually did. So, your claims are null and void.
Click to expand...

Im getting my information from the Grassley memo, which includes footnotes from the actual FISA applications

If anyone is relying on biased sources and a uniformed analysis about the evidence thats been presented so far its YOU.
 
Oborosen said:
I wonder when they will learn to pack it in and just give it up. This whole false narrative of collusion is getting old and the rest of the world is already looking at us strange because of how much crap went on after the election was finished.

Not to mention all these damn kids eating tide pods.
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Perotista said:
I've always wondered how many folks there are like me who have been ignoring this Russian thing from the get go. One reason is the Democrats set out to destroy Trump the day after the election, with that I knew there was no trusting them. With Trump, he's been full of it since he first announced his candidacy for the presidency. Saying one thing one day, something completely opposite the next and finally denying saying anything at all on the third. Whatever Trump says holds no water. Especially when most of the things he says or tweets needs someone to followup on those to tell us what he meant or didn't mean. Which usually is different than what he said or tweeted. It's like Trump is speaking Martian and we need an interpreter.

I just put this whole mess into the hyper partisan political propaganda category which both sides are participating in. I'll wait, sit and listen and when Mueller issues his final report, I'll go along with it. I don't trust anyone in Washington to ever tell us the truth, be honest with the American people, every single one of them has lost my trust and support. That goes for Trump, Republicans and democrats.
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We may be waiting on Mueller for some time, seeing as the amount of pressure on him to actually find something is so high.
 
An initial FISA warrant was granted. Three subsequent extensions (each requiring proof that a continuation was warranted) was granted. The FISA warrant was certainly justified.

Time for you guys to move on to your next Nunes/Johnson conspiracy theory.....LMAO
 
Oborosen said:
Let me be more direct. I access this site through a government gateway. Youtube, is blocked as of late 2016.
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Ah. Can you watch it from home? Or is that where the site is blocked?
 
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