The Gospel of Judas (1 Viewer)

[Jerry]

The Gospel of Judas portayes Judas as the favored disciple, not the hated betrayer of Christ. Are there any Christians who have an issue with seeing Judas in this new light?

Something ells of interest: The beginning of God?

“For there exists a great and boundless realm, whose extent no generation of angels has ever seen, [in which] there is [a] great and invisible [spirit]. {which no eye of an angel has ever seen, no thought of the heart has ever comprehended, and it was never called by any name} And a luminous cloud appeared there. He said, “let an angel come into being which will be my attendant” A great angel, the enlightened Self Generated, emerged from the cloud. Because of Him, four other angels came into being from the other cloud, and they became attendants for the angelic Self Generated……..”

Clearly, this great invisible Spirit and the enlightened, angelic Self Generated are separate beings. So, which one is the one we call "God"?

Christians have a triune God, so would these be the Holy Spirit and the Father? Would one of the latter four angels created by the Self Generated be Christ?

See also this interview with Kenneth Hanson.

 

[bandaidwoman]

I am not Christian but when I learned about the New testament and the story of Jesus's betrayel I always saw Judas as a scapegoat. He took the fall and had to do what he did to bring the prophecy to fruition. Don't see why the Christian god would punish him for it. It makes sense that his most favored disciple would be entrusted with such an odius and burdensome task.

 

[jallman]

The Gospel of Judas portayes Judas as the favored disciple, not the hated betrayer of Christ. Are there any Christians who have an issue with seeing Judas in this new light?

Something ells of interest: The beginning of God?

Clearly, this great invisible Spirit and the enlightened, angelic Self Generated are separate beings. So, which one is the one we call "God"?

Christians have a triune God, so would these be the Holy Spirit and the Father? Would one of the latter four angels created by the Self Generated be Christ?

See also this interview with Kenneth Hanson.

My guess as to the four angels mentioned here is that they are probably the four archangels of the cardinal directions. Moving from East to South to West to North, these would be the Archangels Raphael, Michael, Auriel, and Gabriel. The attending angel is probably a reference to Metatron, the only true Seraphim angel in the angelic order of Heaven. This is just a guess, I would have to read the rest of the text to make a better assessment.

 

[laska]

I am not Christian but when I learned about the New testament and the story of Jesus's betrayel I always saw Judas as a scapegoat. He took the fall and had to do what he did to bring the prophecy to fruition. Don't see why the Christian god would punish him for it. It makes sense that his most favored disciple would be entrusted with such an odius and burdensome task.

Howdy bandaidwoman. I look at it as God being an eternal being and outside of time and so he can see the beginning and the end. It would be known that Judas would use his own free agency to betray Jesus. It would be known that if Christ was born at that particular time, the religious leaders would kill Him because of the wickedness of their own hearts. Since the Atonement was necessary, Christ was put amongst such men. This does not excuse the actions of them. Anyway this is how I have always seen it.

 

[Jerry]

I am not Christian but when I learned about the New testament and the story of Jesus's betrayel I always saw Judas as a scapegoat. He took the fall and had to do what he did to bring the prophecy to fruition. Don't see why the Christian god would punish him for it. It makes sense that his most favored disciple would be entrusted with such an odius and burdensome task.

The gospel of Judas tells us that Judas's name will be blasphemed for generations, but that Judas will not only go to heaven, but also rise above the other disciples (I suspect because Judas was the only one strong enough to stand up to Jesus). It makes since to me that Judas's actions would have been arranged by Jesus, instead of a disciple betraying Jesus.

 

[Jerry]

My guess as to the four angels mentioned here is that they are probably the four archangels of the cardinal directions. Moving from East to South to West to North, these would be the Archangels Raphael, Michael, Auriel, and Gabriel. The attending angel is probably a reference to Metatron, the only true Seraphim angel in the angelic order of Heaven. This is just a guess, I would have to read the rest of the text to make a better assessment.

Hmmm.....I like your guess so far.

 

[kal-el]

The gospel of Judas tells us that Judas's name will be blasphemed for generations, but that Judas will not only go to heaven, but also rise above the other disciples (I suspect because Judas was the only one strong enough to stand up to Jesus). It makes since to me that Judas's actions would have been arranged by Jesus, instead of a disciple betraying Jesus.

I actually agree with you for once Jerry. I have not bothered to read through it, but the basic scenario makes complete sense. All of the Gospels try to paint him as an informer, that committed treason, as they all list him at the very end of the disciples. I always had a hunch that Judas was indeed the gallant hero of the story. I am suprised that you hold any credence in this account, as most of the Christians I have engaged in discourse with about this, discard it right off the bat.

 

[jallman]

I actually agree with you for once Jerry. I have not bothered to read through it, but the basic scenario makes complete sense. All of the Gospels try to paint him as an informer, that committed treason, as they all list him at the very end of the disciples. I always had a hunch that Judas was indeed the gallant hero of the story. I am suprised that you hold any credence in this account, as most of the Christians I have engaged in discourse with about this, discard it right off the bat.

Thats because most Christians cannot fathom the idea that our Bible is incomplete thanks to my own Roman Catholic church. It is also beyond the realm of thought that we could also have an evolving and changing spirituality. Just another guess though.

 

[George_Washington]

Thats because most Christians cannot fathom the idea that our Bible is incomplete thanks to my own Roman Catholic church. It is also beyond the realm of thought that we could also have an evolving and changing spirituality. Just another guess though.

I don't know, I think adding this book to our Bible would be rather an odd addition...

 

[George_Washington]

The Gospel of Judas portayes Judas as the favored disciple, not the hated betrayer of Christ. Are there any Christians who have an issue with seeing Judas in this new light?

Something ells of interest: The beginning of God?

Clearly, this great invisible Spirit and the enlightened, angelic Self Generated are separate beings. So, which one is the one we call "God"?

Christians have a triune God, so would these be the Holy Spirit and the Father? Would one of the latter four angels created by the Self Generated be Christ?

See also this interview with Kenneth Hanson.

It's interesting although I'm not really sure how well this would actually fit in with the actual theology of the New Testament. It seems rather odd to me that Judas would have been commissioned to have betrayed Jesus. It seems much more probable that Jesus had been given a glimpse of the future by God rather than Judas actually being on God's side. I would think it sounds more probable that Judas had been on the side of Satan.

 

[kal-el]

It's interesting although I'm not really sure how well this would actually fit in with the actual theology of the New Testament. It seems rather odd to me that Judas would have been commissioned to have betrayed Jesus. It seems much more probable that Jesus had been given a glimpse of the future by God rather than Judas actually being on God's side. I would think it sounds more probable that Judas had been on the side of Satan.

Good point George. But why would Satan want the prophesies to be fullfilled? This makes sense, as he gave the money back. (felt guilty for having betrayed Jesus) I don't know, something didn't quite mesh together for me about that story, I think it was the fact that Judas gave the money back.

 

[Jerry]

I actually agree with you for once Jerry. I have not bothered to read through it, but the basic scenario makes complete sense. All of the Gospels try to paint him as an informer, that committed treason, as they all list him at the very end of the disciples. I always had a hunch that Judas was indeed the gallant hero of the story. I am suprised that you hold any credence in this account, as most of the Christians I have engaged in discourse with about this, discard it right off the bat.

We agree on something? The end must be near....

The Gospel of Judas has been authenticated, so it has every bit the authority and legitimacy as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It doesn’t surprise me that many Christians would have a problem with seeing Judas in a good light, as that flies in the face of their trusted authority figures. Namely the Church and their versus priests. To now question Judas’s standing is to admit that they may have always been wrong about other things as well. And that’s very dissonant.

 

[Jerry]

It's interesting although I'm not really sure how well this would actually fit in with the actual theology of the New Testament. It seems rather odd to me that Judas would have been commissioned to have betrayed Jesus. It seems much more probable that Jesus had been given a glimpse of the future by God rather than Judas actually being on God's side. I would think it sounds more probable that Judas had been on the side of Satan.

Well, I don’t know, Jesus knew that the crucifixion had to go down, but he flees from temples and stoning mobs until a time of His choosing. He arranges the arrest so that things happen on His terms, according to His plan. The idea that Jesus and Judas were in cahoots takes out some of the beyond belief mysticism which keeps some from believing, and it makes allot more sense....at least it does to me. It shows Jesus as actively being in control, rather than passively accepting treachery. And that fits my idea of Jesus better.

 

[kal-el]

Well, I don’t know, Jesus knew that the crucifixion had to go down, but he flees from temples and stoning mobs until a time of His choosing. He arranges the arrest so that things happen on His terms, according to His plan. The idea that Jesus and Judas were in cahoots takes out some of the beyond belief mysticism which keeps some from believing, and it makes allot more sense....at least it does to me. It shows Jesus as actively being in control, rather than passively accepting treachery. And that fits my idea of Jesus better.

Exactly. It's a little bit more believable now. I know for me it was kinda hard to swallow at first as Judas had to backstab Jesus, and point him out by kissing him. If Jesus preached everywhere, held sermons, was a walking miracle machine, and the pharisses wanted him dead so bad, one would think they would know exactly who Jesus is. That depiction makes it seem like he is just another prophet.

 

[Rev.]

Here's my two cents...

I haven't read the "Gospel of Judas." I want to read the scholarship that authenticates it first.

I DON'T believe Jesus and Judas were in cahoots. I don't think Jesus needed to "prearrange" his treason...with so many people after his head, it seems a bit unnecessary. In the end ALL the disciples betrayed Jesus...

But I also don't think Judas was an evil villian who wanted to see Jesus dead...there was a move underway to force Jesus to claim the title as King and defeat the Romans and establish his Messianic Kingdom. I think Judas betrayed Jesus as a way of "forcing Jesus' hand" to do exactly that...but it back fired on Judas. I don't think Judas had any idea that death was the goal of the Sanhedran, and I think his extreme remorse was genuine.

 

[Apostle13]

Here's my two cents...

I haven't read the "Gospel of Judas." I want to read the scholarship that authenticates it first.

I DON'T believe Jesus and Judas were in cahoots. I don't think Jesus needed to "prearrange" his treason...with so many people after his head, it seems a bit unnecessary. In the end ALL the disciples betrayed Jesus...

there was a move underway to force Jesus to claim the title as King and defeat the Romans and establish his Messianic Kingdom. I think Judas betrayed Jesus as a way of "forcing Jesus' hand" to do exactly that...but it back fired on Judas. I don't think Judas had any idea that death was the goal of the Sanhedran, and I think his extreme remorse was genuine.

This text according to the documentary I recently watched is "carbon dated" to or at about three hundred years after the crucifixion making it older than any of the four Gospels.

But I also don't think Judas was an evil villian who wanted to see Jesus dead...

Let us recall what the scripture says:
Psalm 41:9 (A prophetic of David)
Yes, my own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, who ate of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
John 13:18:
I don't speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen. But that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with me has lifted up his heel against me.'
John 6:70
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
John 13:26-27
Jesus therefore answered, "It is he to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it." So when he had dipped the piece of bread he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
After the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

While these are just a sample few there are many such others both prophetic and non. Elsewhere the bible tells us that "God watches over His word"... Therefore, it is easy for us as believers to discount/disregard the texts that for whatever reason(s) did not make the original cut. By the Holy Spirit we can perceive the errors of contradiction made plain by this text titled Judas.
As a non believer/enemy of God they are quick to embrace it... Some who do see the contradictions, and equally, them that don't... They are driven by alternate spirits the same of which are seeking to deny/discredit that which we hold so dear as witnesses...
Just because a text is old is not reason to accurate.

 

[Jerry]

............John 13:26-27
Jesus therefore answered, "It is he to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it." So when he had dipped the piece of bread he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
After the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Even if I were to concede to your unfounded claim that Jesus facilitated the demonic possession of Judas, the whole thing still happened on Jesus’s terms and was not an independent betrayal by an apostle.

While these are just a sample few there are many such others both prophetic and non. Elsewhere the bible tells us that "God watches over His word"... Therefore, it is easy for us as believers to discount/disregard the texts that for whatever reason(s) did not make the original cut. By the Holy Spirit we can perceive the errors of contradiction made plain by this text titled Judas.

That assumes that the only way which “God watches over his word” is by having the Coptic Christian Church bound His entire word into a single collective document. I have no reason to assume such.

As a non believer/enemy of God they are quick to embrace it... Some who do see the contradictions, and equally, them that don't... They are driven by alternate spirits the same of which are seeking to deny/discredit that which we hold so dear as witnesses...

Oh, so now I don’t believe in God and am seeking to discredit scripture :roll:

Oh_no…….you_found_me_out.
Now I have to contact the dark lord for further direction!

 

[kal-el]

O man, 2 Christians at odds over what they believe is the "truth.":lol:

 

[Jerry]

O man, 2 Christians at odds over what they believe is the "truth.":lol:

Silence heathen!!!

You must understand, there never was one Christianity. Since ancient times there have always been Christianities. Not an orthodoxy, but a heterodoxy. Even “believers” who happen to all have faith in Jesus are at odds with eachother's traditions. The assemblence of a common bible was one, perhaps the greatest, attempt to bring everyone to a single fold, but folks still hold there own interpretations, etc. For example, I am of the opinion that Revelations 22:18-19 only applies to Revelations, and not the entire bible, because Revelations existed before the bible. There are those who would, and have, call me a non believer over this.

It’s right up there with the classic “repent or go to hell” line.

These accusations, though tiresome, just role off me, as they are not credible.

 

[kal-el]

Hey guys, isn't it possible Satan has debached the Bible over the aeons, I mean humans did write and translate it after all, and for a time, it wasn't written down, it was simply passed on by word of mouth, isn't it concievable or even very likely that satan has influenced these men to write the bible a certain way? Of course, if that's the case, then that begs a very interesting question, mostly God's innability to forsee Satan's corruption on his word.

 

[Jerry]

Hey guys, isn't it possible Satan has debached the Bible over the aeons, I mean humans did write and translate it after all, and for a time, it wasn't written down, it was simply passed on by word of mouth, isn't it concievable or even very likely that satan has influenced these men to write the bible a certain way? Of course, if that's the case, then that begs a very interesting question, mostly God's innability to forsee Satan's corruption on his word.

Any degree of influence Satan may have in God’s written word is afforded to him by God, so thus it serves God’s plan for us and we need not worry whether Satan has influence or not.

 

[kal-el]

Any degree of influence Satan may have in God’s written word is afforded to him by God, so thus it serves God’s plan for us and we need not worry whether Satan has influence or not.

Of course, why worry, after all, God has everything under control. The Bible is the written word of God - the Bible say so! Jesus says so - in the Bible! Since the Bible is the Word of God, the Bible tells the truth - it can't do anything else! It's innerant!:lol:

Anyway, how do we know for a fact that Satan didn't influence the writers of the Bible? Even the Bible claims that Satan is clever, so it is a possibility.

 

[Jerry]

Of course, why worry, after all, God has everything under control. The Bible is the written word of God - the Bible say so! Jesus says so - in the Bible! Since the Bible is the Word of God, the Bible tells the truth - it can't do anything else! It's innerant!:lol:

Sure, if you only include the bible as your foundation of faith. That’s like taking a product brochure’s word on the fact that, say, a particular washer, is the best washer and all others are in err. You know that this washer is the best because the brochure says so, and you know that the brochure is right because witness testimony, in the brochure, says so.

If you’re like me, however, you have have used other washers, worked for both GE and Whirlpool (to name 2), and form your own opinion.

I see you as a person who is arguing based on the brochures. I’m telling you that you should put the brochures down and try washing your clothes in a few machines. You are not arguing based on experience, but literature.

Anyway, how do we know for a fact that Satan didn't influence the writers of the Bible? Even the Bible claims that Satan is clever, so it is a possibility.

In so far as I know, we don't know for sure. But so what? Any ability that Satan has to influence God's written word is afforded to him by God, so thus any such ability serves God's purpose and we need not worry.

 

[kal-el]

Sure, if you only include the bible as your foundation of faith. That’s like taking a product brochure’s word on the fact that, say, a particular washer, is the best washer and all others are in err. You know that this washer is the best because the brochure says so, and you know that the brochure is right because witness testimony, in the brochure, says so.

If you’re like me, however, you have have used other washers, worked for both GE and Whirlpool (to name 2), and form your own opinion.

I see you as a person who is arguing based on the brochures. I’m telling you that you should put the brochures down and try washing your clothes in a few machines. You are not arguing based on experience, but literature.

Yes, but unlike several different types of washing machines, this God only has 1 brochure attributed to him. We all form our facts and figures about God based on 1 book, and 1 book alone. And experience means nothing, if no one can voutch for it; no spectators or observers on hand.

In so far as I know, we don't know for sure. But so what? Any ability that Satan has to influence God's written word is afforded to him by God, so thus any such ability serves God's purpose and we need not worry.

Haha, yea. God is indeed perfectly good and controld all things. So we shouldn't worry our little heads.:lol:

 

[Jerry]

Yes, but unlike several different types of washing machines, this God only has 1 brochure attributed to him. We all form our facts and figures about God based on 1 book, and 1 book alone. And experience means nothing, if no one can vouch for it; no spectators or observers on hand.

1? I count 66 in the Christian bible alone. Then there's the Lutheran doctrine, the book of Enoch, the Gospel of Judas, The Dead Sea Scrolls, the Koran....I'm sure that Hinduism has it's texts as well; and I'm sure that there are more texts that I am not currently aware of but others are.

Aside from texts, the Native American and Mian oral traditions can not be discounted. Also remember Wicca and Odinism, as that is where I come from.

As for experiences, I vouched for mine. Been there, don that. I was a follower of Thor. Living the Christian life has proven itself to me. I am one such and observer and witness who is on hand.

Haha, yea. God is indeed perfectly good and controld all things. So we shouldn't worry our little heads.:lol:

Yup, that's right. Don't worry about everything, just be a good person.