The German post-war Chancellors

[Oberon]

A plug here for a few English translations of books about Germany between the wars, two by this author:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detlev_Peukert

I have these two on my shelves:

Volksgenossen und Gemeinschaftsfremde: Anpassung, Ausmerze und Aufbegehren unter dem Nationalsozialismus Cologne: Bund Verlag, 1982, translated into English by Richard Deveson as Inside Nazi Germany : Conformity, Opposition and Racism in Everyday Life London : Batsford, 1987 ISBN 0-7134-5217-X.

Die Weimarer Republik : Krisenjahre der Klassischen Moderne, Frankfurt am Main : Suhrkamp Verlag, 1987 translated into English as The Weimar Republic : the Crisis of Classical Modernity, New York : Hill and Wang, 1992 ISBN 0-8090-9674-9.

The last one is the better translation, though the first is the most interesting for laymen of the two.

The third is Otto Frederich's Before The Deluge, not a complicated academic work but plenty of stuff on German culture and odds and ends of how chaotic German society was after WW I, a good companion to Peukert's Wiemar Republic. There are probably better ones, if anybody knows of any please post them; these three are merely the ones I have personally.

 

[German guy]

Hmm, that is very interesting. Do you think that if Adenaur had accepted Stalin's proposal could Germany have thrown out the West and become neutral like Austria, thereby keeping Germany intact during the Cold War?

I don't think Adenauer had the power to throw out the Western Allies. He would have had to convince them to leave, and I doubt that the Western Allies would have accepted that.

But assuming for a moment Stalin's offer would have been accepted -- it's a matter of speculation if Germany might have gone through the Cold War as a neutral power. But I like speculation. My guess is much would have depended on the question if even though there would have been no political ties to the West, if neutral Germany could have continued close economic ties to the West. If yes, perhaps the standard of living in neutral Germany would have been high enough to make sure the political system remains stable and the moderate parties strong. After all, that's what stabilized West-Germany after WW2. But if the economy had gone worse, all bets would have been open. IMO, democratic culture and ideals were not yet deeply ingrained in the people yet, during the 50s and 60s, perhaps even the 70s. I wouldn't bet Germany would have remained a stable democracy back then without economic prosperity; while I trust Germany today has become so stable that its democracy could stand some economic turmoil.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I think East Germany and Poland at the time fared a lot better relative to other Soviet puppet regimes, as the Soviets were intent on providing a 'showcase' of how great Soviet style socialism was, for propaganda purposes, hence they poured more resources into the most visible states closest to western media, especially re food, medical, and fuel allotments and the like. Those states were also slightly more productive, given the higher general education levels of the population there, so yes, no doubt the East German apparatchiks and Party members wouldn't have been happy with the change in status of their bailiwicks, I would guess.

A lot of it was also simply that those governments were more willing to follow the "Party Line" and do what their Overlords wanted, without more direct help.

When in 1956 workers in Poland demanded the right to Unionize and improvement of working conditions, the Polish Government itself sent in tanks and troops to put down this uprising. It was put down fast enough that it did not spread.

Unlike say Hungary in 1956, or Czechoslovakia in 1968. But I also remember watching the news with dread and tenseness in 1980, hoping that the Soviet Union did not invade Poland the way they had other countries because of the Solidarity strikes. But both the Union and the Polish Government gave something up, a compromise was reached and tensions eased down.

Then 5 years later Premier Gorbachev started the beginning of the end of the Soviet Empire, so it all became moot anyways.

I do not think a "showcase" had anything to do with how East Germany and Poland were handled, simply that they had governments capable enough to run things for the most part without overt Soviet pressure.