Gas tax has nothing to do addressing peak usage or demand vs supply. It has to do with forcing people to think about their usage and what kind of car they buy. Walk to the corner store instead of driving and buy a small compact that can go 60+ miles per gallon instead of the SUV that does 10. But then again you guys dont have any gas tax that means anything
Gas tax has nothing to do with those, but tolling would take care of those (and an emission fee would satisfy your contention).
It's absurd that when supply gets scarce that price stays exactly the same. There's a ton of profit that is left untapped, and that profit is a signal that building a new road or some kind of transportation near that corridor would be a success. We don't have that signal right now, and we don't have an incentive to increase capacity except the pressure that is put on politicians (and that hasn't been very successful since road funds have been diverted to much less effective rail projects).
LOL it has everything to do with those two. Gas tax in Europe was put in place in a very serious manner after the first oil crisis. The justification for this tax was to avoid the hardship that an oil shock could cause (and of course a revenue for the government) by pushing the consumer to smaller cars with great mileage. Add to that, the forcing of car companies to make such cars by putting on minimum mandatory mileage requirement (and changing them every half a decade or so).
This has resulted in Europeans buying smaller fuel efficient cars and being world leaders in fuel efficiency cars. It also resulted in that Europeans did not feel the same hardship of the speculative oil price hike of the last few years, because they were use to high prices.
Eh? When supply gets scarce the price goes up.. what planet do you live on? Or are you advocating for tax rises when prices are pushed up, so that the over all price goes up even more? Are you a communist or something?
As for increasing capacity.. of what? Oil production? Cars? Roads? you make no sense.
I think you've lost my point. I'm talking about rush hour and congestion and road capacity. Not demand for oil or anything like that.
If you congestion price roads, you get people to use the freeway during off-peak hours more often and you'll know exactly where to build more.
This is only works if you assume people have the option of when to use the roads. Since the majority of people have jobs, and the majority of those jobs don't let you come into work whenever you want, your theory kind of falls apart. I mean, sure, you COULD go into work 4 hours early and leave 3 hours late to miss the rush hour and have to pay less for your drive, but how many people are honestly going to do that?
That is why an efficient well done public transport system is always the best. We have learned this in many major cities around the world and even inbetween cities. Very few people take the plane from Malaga to Madrid in Spain any more, since taking the high-speed train the 1000 km is cheaper and faster. Domestic air travel in Spain between cities that have gotten high speed trains has fallen dramatically. Add to that city wide well made public transport and you got the recipe for fast reliable transport in areas where the car can be a problem.
Seriously, it does nothing to address peak usage or demand vs. supply. If you congestion price roads, you get people to use the freeway during off-peak hours more often and you'll know exactly where to build more. With a gas tax, what information do you get besides how far people are driving? Forget the gas tax, just use that to pay for streets. Congestion pricing (or some kind of variant such as adding on an emission fee) is much more efficient.
It infuriates me that this is a sacred cow in politics.
I believe what you are seeking are "Toll Roads"Seriously, it does nothing to address peak usage or demand vs. supply. If you congestion price roads, you get people to use the freeway during off-peak hours more often and you'll know exactly where to build more. With a gas tax, what information do you get besides how far people are driving? Forget the gas tax, just use that to pay for streets. Congestion pricing (or some kind of variant such as adding on an emission fee) is much more efficient.
It infuriates me that this is a sacred cow in politics.
Okay, I give up. How does one "congestion price" a road?
Pete EU's right.
Seriously, it does nothing to address peak usage or demand vs. supply. If you congestion price roads, you get people to use the freeway during off-peak hours more often and you'll know exactly where to build more. With a gas tax, what information do you get besides how far people are driving? Forget the gas tax, just use that to pay for streets. Congestion pricing (or some kind of variant such as adding on an emission fee) is much more efficient.
It infuriates me that this is a sacred cow in politics.
Gas tax has nothing to do addressing peak usage or demand vs supply. It has to do with forcing people to think about their usage and what kind of car they buy. Walk to the corner store instead of driving and buy a small compact that can go 60+ miles per gallon instead of the SUV that does 10. But then again you guys dont have any gas tax that means anything
That is not "gas tax" lol. That is congestion tax/charge. Hugeeeeee difference
This is only works if you assume people have the option of when to use the roads. Since the majority of people have jobs, and the majority of those jobs don't let you come into work whenever you want, your theory kind of falls apart. I mean, sure, you COULD go into work 4 hours early and leave 3 hours late to miss the rush hour and have to pay less for your drive, but how many people are honestly going to do that?
Okay, I give up. How does one "congestion price" a road?
Pete EU's right.
Pete is correct the gas tax has nothing to do with peak usage, but overall consumption of gasoline or diesel.
The gasoline tax also helps Europe with its current account. More oil consumption means more money leaving Europe to parts unknown
Congestion pricing has also been implemented in urban freeways. Between 2004 and 2005, Santiago de Chile implemented the first 100% non-stop urban toll for concessioned freeways passing through a downtown area,[90] charging by the distance traveled.[91] Congestion pricing is used since 2007 during rush hours in order to maintain reasonable speeds within the city's core with the aim of keeping a minimum level of service for their customers.[92][93]
A lot of people would to save money. There is also the option of moving closer to work or taking the streets.
Move closer to work? Not an option if you own your home. Renters might find that option viable....
Even if you are just now buying a home....what assurance do you have that you will have the same job a year from now?
Trying to make the very large USA fit the EU mold is not an easy thing to accomplish...
That's not the point of this thread at all.
Can we just have a thread where people stop trying to fit me into some perceived ideological mold and just debate what I'm actually saying?
YOU are the one who brought it up, why do that if you are not inviting a response?That's not the point of this thread at all.
Can we just have a thread where people stop trying to fit me into some perceived ideological mold and just debate what I'm actually saying?
I never said it did!
Since we abandoned mercantilism long ago, I don't see why this is an advantage.
I never said it did!
Since we abandoned mercantilism long ago, I don't see why this is an advantage.
This has resulted in Europeans buying smaller fuel efficient cars and being world leaders in fuel efficiency cars. It also resulted in that Europeans did not feel the same hardship of the speculative oil price hike of the last few years, because they were use to high prices.
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