The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare [W:71]

[Bigfoot 88]

People seem to be overlooking the fundamental problem of ObamaCare.

The whole concept of universal health insurance is cost spreading. However, the real problem is health cost inflation. ObamaCare does nothing substantial to reduce costs in healthcare.

ObamaCare will fail because it will not reduce costs. They will continue to increase because the root problems have not been addressed.

I suppose it does fit in with the "we're all in it together" talking point from this administration. Only what isn't mentioned is that we will all fail together.

 

[Ray410]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Obamacare, like all programs from this corrupt administration, is extremely divisive. There is no feeling of "We're all in this together" either in this program or in the United States. The common feeling is "Why should I pay for America hating foreigners who vote for Liberals because they get freebies?

This is reflected in the present data, which shows that four out of five who have signed up receive subsidies. Now the problem is to fool others into paying for them. Pretending it's our own elderly doesn't seem to be working for Obama.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

People seem to be overlooking the fundamental problem of ObamaCare.

The whole concept of universal health insurance is cost spreading. However, the real problem is health cost inflation. ObamaCare does nothing substantial to reduce costs in healthcare.

ObamaCare will fail because it will not reduce costs. They will continue to increase because the root problems have not been addressed.

I suppose it does fit in with the "we're all in it together" talking point from this administration. Only what isn't mentioned is that we will all fail together.

Living in a country that has had universal health care for over half a century, I can tell you that no one seems to have solved the issue of skyrocketting costs associated with the provision of healthcare. We handle it here, or mishandle it here, by continuously delisting procedures and products from the list of covered services. Even so, almost 50% of every tax dollar here in Ontario, Canada, is spent on providing an ever decreasing list of healthcare services to an ever growing, ever aging, and living longer population.

That said, Obamacare is perhaps the worst of both worlds.

 

[polgara]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Living in a country that has had universal health care for over half a century, I can tell you that no one seems to have solved the issue of skyrocketting costs associated with the provision of healthcare. We handle it here, or mishandle it here, by continuously delisting procedures and products from the list of covered services. Even so, almost 50% of every tax dollar here in Ontario, Canada, is spent on providing an ever decreasing list of healthcare services to an ever growing, ever aging, and living longer population.

That said, Obamacare is perhaps the worst of both worlds.

What exactly is driving up the cost of health care in Canada? Considering that nearly half of every tax dollar is being spent on ever decreasing services, this is alarming, considering that we may be looking at the same problems soon. Do you subsidize those that can't pay? Is it that surgeries are more costly for the elderly due to increased risk? What do you see as the reason for constantly delisting products and procedures?

Good evening, CJ. :2wave:

 

[Carjosse]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

What exactly is driving up the cost of health care in Canada? Considering that nearly half of every tax dollar is being spent on ever decreasing services, this is alarming, considering that we may be looking at the same problems soon. Do you subsidize those that can't pay? Is it that surgeries are more costly for the elderly due to increased risk? What do you see as the reason for constantly delisting products and procedures?

Good evening, CJ. :2wave:

Form what I have looked at part of it is doctor salaries which are increasing at a very rapid pace and I believe drugs are the largest part of it. I believe at the last meeting of the premiers they agreed they would work together to buy drugs in order to reduce prices. Though form the medical community the problem is care is too centralized meaning hospitals are driving up costs instead of opting for lower cost home care for especially older patients. Well necessary procedures are still paid for but elective procedures are being delisted.

 

[Greenbeard]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

People seem to be overlooking the fundamental problem of ObamaCare.

The whole concept of universal health insurance is cost spreading. However, the real problem is health cost inflation. ObamaCare does nothing substantial to reduce costs in healthcare.

ObamaCare will fail because it will not reduce costs. They will continue to increase because the root problems have not been addressed.

I suppose it does fit in with the "we're all in it together" talking point from this administration. Only what isn't mentioned is that we will all fail together.

Here's the fundamental problem with posts like this: the ACA isn't just about getting more people insured. The coverage expansions are obviously the part that get the most press. But there's also a lot of activity going on right now, either directly through the ACA or in conjunction with, to start putting actual health care delivery on a more sustainable footing going forward. And that part of the law is just as important as the coverage stuff that gets all the attention--maybe even more so.

The other problem with posts like this is that they seem divorced from the actual situation these days:

Plummeting hospital price growth drives health care price growth to lowest since 1960

Health care price inflation in October [2013] reached a new historical low of 0.9%, year over year. The 12-month moving average, at 1.3%, is also the
lowest level in our data, and likely for all time.

The HCPI growth reflects a nearly 15-year low in hospital price growth, to 1.2% year over year, down three-tenths from its September reading.
Each other price category growth was exceptionally low, if not falling outright.

Doc-office PPI up 0.3% in 2013; slowest rise in 11 years

A federal measure of healthcare inflation found physician office prices increased last year at the slowest rate in more than a decade.

Hospital prices grow at slowest rate since 1999

Hospital service prices in 2013 grew at the slowest rate since 1999, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Thursday. Prices increased 4.7% compared with an average of 6.2% per year during the past 15 years.

The hospital Consumer Price Index for 2013, which reflects the prices paid by commercial insurers, has declined steadily for the past four years. Its growth nonetheless easily outpaced the rate of overall inflation, as reflected by the consumer price index for all goods, which rose 1.5% last year.

 

[Carjosse]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Living in a country that has had universal health care for over half a century, I can tell you that no one seems to have solved the issue of skyrocketting costs associated with the provision of healthcare. We handle it here, or mishandle it here, by continuously delisting procedures and products from the list of covered services. Even so, almost 50% of every tax dollar here in Ontario, Canada, is spent on providing an ever decreasing list of healthcare services to an ever growing, ever aging, and living longer population.

That said, Obamacare is perhaps the worst of both worlds.

Well if the Fraser Institute (that rather Conservative think tank) has anything to say; Quebec and Ontario have the best healthcare in the country and the best value. Quebec actually got a perfect 10/10 because they had the best quality while having the lowest cost per capita I believe.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

What exactly is driving up the cost of health care in Canada? Considering that nearly half of every tax dollar is being spent on ever decreasing services, this is alarming, considering that we may be looking at the same problems soon. Do you subsidize those that can't pay? Is it that surgeries are more costly for the elderly due to increased risk? What do you see as the reason for constantly delisting products and procedures?

Good evening, CJ. :2wave:

Good morning Lady P - hope you're well - a little bit of snow here this morning, just enough to look nice but not be a problem.

There's no one thing that's increasing the costs - it's a combination of many things - salaries, of course, but here in Ontario general practice doctors are limited to the number of patients they may bill the system for, causing some to close up shop near the end of the year or to reduce hours. Other costs are related to the operation of hospitals, which are all government funded, unlike in the US, and causing patients and visitors to be gouged for services like parking, etc. to help them cover what the system doesn't. There's also a problem with those new to the country getting full coverage, usually greater than those citizens paying for it, while their status in the country is being determined. It's a real sore point with lots of people. The federal government has said they are no longer going to fund it and the provinces are fighting that - I hope the feds win and the province gives up. For too long, Canada has been seen as an easy mark for those who want or need expensive medical services - hop a plane, claim refugee status, visit a doctor and be diagnosed, have an operation or whatever procedure, have your refugee claim refused, be put back on a plane home, but in far better health. Those waiting to have their status determined also get the full slate of coverage, similar to welfare recipients, while everyone else gets the bare bones coverage.

In addition, and increasingly so as we go forward, coverage for nursing homes, old age homes, homecare, etc. is greatly increasing as more of us get old but aren't dying so much. It's similar to social security - as system designed to cover older people for a few years, living to say 70, now covers far more people, not working, and often living close to or over 100. The young are really going to get hit hard and it will be interesting to see how they react. We do encourage a lot of new immigration, working and wealthy immigration, to help with a growth in the economy and taxes to fund it, but it's not an easy problem to solve.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Well if the Fraser Institute (that rather Conservative think tank) has anything to say; Quebec and Ontario have the best healthcare in the country and the best value. Quebec actually got a perfect 10/10 because they had the best quality while having the lowest cost per capita I believe.

That's easy to say when Quebec's government is basically subsidized by the rest of Canada and they refuse to exploit their natural resources to improve their economic status. They'd rather live to a large extent off the work of others.

 

[American]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

People seem to be overlooking the fundamental problem of ObamaCare.

The whole concept of universal health insurance is cost spreading. However, the real problem is health cost inflation. ObamaCare does nothing substantial to reduce costs in healthcare.

ObamaCare will fail because it will not reduce costs. They will continue to increase because the root problems have not been addressed.

I suppose it does fit in with the "we're all in it together" talking point from this administration. Only what isn't mentioned is that we will all fail together.

Actually that's not a problem with Obamacare since it was never devised to solve that problem. It was conceived to make the federal govt larger.

 

[polgara]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Good morning Lady P - hope you're well - a little bit of snow here this morning, just enough to look nice but not be a problem.

There's no one thing that's increasing the costs - it's a combination of many things - salaries, of course, but here in Ontario general practice doctors are limited to the number of patients they may bill the system for, causing some to close up shop near the end of the year or to reduce hours. Other costs are related to the operation of hospitals, which are all government funded, unlike in the US, and causing patients and visitors to be gouged for services like parking, etc. to help them cover what the system doesn't. There's also a problem with those new to the country getting full coverage, usually greater than those citizens paying for it, while their status in the country is being determined. It's a real sore point with lots of people. The federal government has said they are no longer going to fund it and the provinces are fighting that - I hope the feds win and the province gives up. For too long, Canada has been seen as an easy mark for those who want or need expensive medical services - hop a plane, claim refugee status, visit a doctor and be diagnosed, have an operation or whatever procedure, have your refugee claim refused, be put back on a plane home, but in far better health. Those waiting to have their status determined also get the full slate of coverage, similar to welfare recipients, while everyone else gets the bare bones coverage.

In addition, and increasingly so as we go forward, coverage for nursing homes, old age homes, homecare, etc. is greatly increasing as more of us get old but aren't dying so much. It's similar to social security - as system designed to cover older people for a few years, living to say 70, now covers far more people, not working, and often living close to or over 100. The young are really going to get hit hard and it will be interesting to see how they react. We do encourage a lot of new immigration, working and wealthy immigration, to help with a growth in the economy and taxes to fund it, but it's not an easy problem to solve.

Excellent and informative post! :thumbs:

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

The Fundamental problem with it? With acknowledgement to Theodor Seuss Geisel.

 

[Carjosse]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

That's easy to say when Quebec's government is basically subsidized by the rest of Canada and they refuse to exploit their natural resources to improve their economic status. They'd rather live to a large extent off the work of others.

That is how the equalization formula works out and I imagine they could become an economic powerhouse if they really wanted to.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

That is how the equalization formula works out and I imagine they could become an economic powerhouse if they really wanted to.

Which makes them all the more despicable in a federation. You didn't see Newfoundland sit on their asses and let their offshore oil resources rot while they continued to have the rest of Canada fund their existence. The poorest province in the federation decided to exploit their resources for the benefit of their own people.

 

[sawdust]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Living in a country that has had universal health care for over half a century, I can tell you that no one seems to have solved the issue of skyrocketting costs associated with the provision of healthcare. We handle it here, or mishandle it here, by continuously delisting procedures and products from the list of covered services. Even so, almost 50% of every tax dollar here in Ontario, Canada, is spent on providing an ever decreasing list of healthcare services to an ever growing, ever aging, and living longer population.

That said, Obamacare is perhaps the worst of both worlds.

Government programs never address costs other than through price fixing. In markets competition drives cost containment, innovation and efficiency. When government fixes prices companies do the accounting, decide how much money they can make and either agree to the price or pull out of the market. No government program can produce a good deal for consumers when government has a monopoly.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

The singular problem with Obamacare is that Congress wrote and passed the law while Obama was President and a certain element in society hates everything remotely associated with Obama. End of story.

 

[Carjosse]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Which makes them all the more despicable in a federation. You didn't see Newfoundland sit on their asses and let their offshore oil resources rot while they continued to have the rest of Canada fund their existence. The poorest province in the federation decided to exploit their resources for the benefit of their own people.

Though these is one issue though most of those resources are on Native land, you get a repeat of the Oka crisis.

 

[sawdust]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

The singular problem with Obamacare is that Congress wrote and passed the law while Obama was President and a certain element in society hates everything remotely associated with Obama. End of story.

You don't think the problem is that nobody read the thing before it was passed. It was passed with no bi partisan support. Obama has had to modify it with signing statements several times. The government spends lots of time in court defending it because it interferes with religious freedom. There is something wrong with our country when there is a court case called The United States vs. The Little Sisters of the Poor. I'm not religious but come on. Have we sunk that low?

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

People seem to be overlooking the fundamental problem of ObamaCare.

The whole concept of universal health insurance is cost spreading. However, the real problem is health cost inflation. ObamaCare does nothing substantial to reduce costs in healthcare.

ObamaCare will fail because it will not reduce costs. They will continue to increase because the root problems have not been addressed.

I suppose it does fit in with the "we're all in it together" talking point from this administration. Only what isn't mentioned is that we will all fail together.

I mentioned this a long time ago. It was ignored. :shrug:

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

Government programs never address costs other than through price fixing. In markets competition drives cost containment, innovation and efficiency. When government fixes prices companies do the accounting, decide how much money they can make and either agree to the price or pull out of the market. No government program can produce a good deal for consumers when government has a monopoly.

I would agree with you, with on caveat - when government has a monopoly, there will always be citizens and/or businesses who will, for nationalistic or altruistic reasons, continue to provide that service even if they could realize higher rates of return on their efforts elsewhere. In the healthcare field, as an example, hospitals and clinics in the US are constantly trying to entice nurses, doctors, and other practitioners to leave Canada for "greener pastures" in the States. Many do leave, but the vast majority stays.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

The singular problem with Obamacare is that Congress wrote and passed the law while Obama was President and a certain element in society hates everything remotely associated with Obama. End of story.

Nonsense.

 

[Smartmouthwoman]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

The singular problem with Obamacare is that Congress wrote and passed the law while Obama was President and a certain element in society hates everything remotely associated with Obama. End of story.

Really? Maybe you should read what real Americans are going thru before you blame Obamacares' miserable failure on poor widdle Bawak's fewins.

Skip to the comments and educate thine self.

https://m.facebook.com/Healthcare.g...://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php&_rdr

 

[274ina]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

It will control costs becasue profits of the useless middleman are fixed.

Cost to the people is fixed at 2-5% of pay for most people.

The subsidy seems to be fixed too.

So that leaves the middlemen to control costs with all the masses of lawyers they have..........and the poeple will be fine.

And if it does not work, then we all get UHC and ban insurance like the ENTIRE western world.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

And if it does not work, then we all get UHC and ban insurance like the ENTIRE western world.

So the 85% of French people who think they are buying insurance really aren't? You should tell them it is banned and they should save their money!

 

[Born Free]

Re: The Fundamental Problem With ObamaCare

The singular problem with Obamacare is that Congress wrote and passed the law while Obama was President and a certain element in society hates everything remotely associated with Obama. End of story.

You just described a "Partisan Hack"