The FLOOD of Noah and the growing evidence.

[Daisy]

How did god create light on the first day but the sun on the 4th?

He didn't...He merely made it so the sunlight could reach the earth at that time...the sun and moon were already there...

1:16—How could God produce light on the first day if the luminaries were not made until the fourth day? The Hebrew word rendered “make” in Ge 1 verse 16 is not the same as the word for “create” used in Genesis 1:1, 21, 27 chapter 1, verses 1, 21, and 27. “The heavens” that included the luminaries were created long before the “first day” even began. But their light did not reach the surface of the earth. On the first day, “there came to be light” because diffused light penetrated the cloud layers and became visible on the earth. The rotating earth thus began to have alternating day and night. (Genesis 1:1-3, 5) The sources of that light still remained invisible from the earth. During the fourth creative period, however, a notable change took place. The sun, the moon, and the stars were now made “to shine upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:17) “God proceeded to make” them in that they could now be seen from the earth.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004004

 

[Somerville]

You're the one who gave the Epic of Galgamesh. And, I explained to you that it supports the possibility of Noah' flood.
And, it also supports the possibility of the existence of NOAH!
My explanation is logical.

Will we ever find the ark after all these years? Wouldn't it have disintegrated? Or, what is left of it could be buried?
Lol -Would it be fossilised like the alleged "missing link" that have yet to be found?

A link to The Tippling Philosopher's discussion and debunking of the Noah Flood myth. For those who take the time to read even a little bit of the page, you will find links to 5 additional pages discussing the subject.

Debunking the Genesis Flood: The Nonsense of a Local Flood Claim

The Philosopher provides a list of 25 problems for claiming the story tells a true tale. The one that I have known about since doing a bit of history studies (7 years) has to do with the construction of the Ark - it simply ain't possible to build a wooden ship of the size described in Genesis 6:14-16. There is no known method, nor any known lumber that could be used to build a boat of the size mentioned in Genesis. If anyone cares to mention the schooner Wyoming as being as long as the Ark, please note that the overall length includes the bowsprit and the mainsail boom - which extend well past the hull. The drawing shows a brigantine, which was a fairly common vessel in the late 18th and up to the mid-19th centuries. The Wyoming's bowsprit was 30 metres in length, which reduces the hull length to 117 metres, which would be further reduced by the overhang of the mainsail boom.



More on the problems with the story as we have it: 1) Number of animals and humans on the vessel, 2) food storage for the animals and humans 3) shit - the number of animals on the boat would provide lots of shit, which would need to be cleared every day.

 

[LittleNipper]

Didn't you post on a Mormon discussion board quoting the Bible verse by verse several years ago??

The Mormon/LDS Church taught that the flood of Noah was global back when I was in it many years ago.

"There is a third group of people—those who accept the literal message of the Bible regarding Noah, the ark, and the Deluge. Latter-day Saints belong to this group. In spite of the world’s arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets." Link

Yes, I in fact did. The Mormons have some good qualities, though they are not biblical Christians.

 

[LittleNipper]

Flooding which occurred globally.




There is undeniable evidence of floods. There is no evidence, for Noah and his ark, aside from what story tellers and writers added to make the story more interesting for listeners, and later readers.



The "entire" human race?
Perhaps throughout societies where enough flooding occurred to cause havoc or disruption of their lives there were flood stories.
Aside from myths and stories, what irrefutable evidence is there for the existence of a Noah character and an ark? Any at all?

I can see where believers have had, and continue to have, difficulty accepting/making facts fit the biblical narrative as we have increased our knowledge about the world/universe in which we live, which hasn't helped advance a belief in a supernatural causal creation.

Believers do not have major difficulties regarding the data; however, they must remain vigilant and not allow non-believers to manipulate the data explanation.

 

[Individual]

Believers do not have major difficulties regarding the data; however, they must remain vigilant and not allow non-believers to manipulate the data explanation.

To which they go to unbelievably great length.

 

[LittleNipper]

To which they go to unbelievably great length.

To believe that tissue could remain pliable for 70 to 100 million plus years (and even have a smell) seems like a great length to me. To believe that biological life originated spontaniously from inaniment compounds without GOD is even more of a stretch. I guess it all depends on who one wishes to place his faith in.

 

[LittleNipper]

He didn't...He merely made it so the sunlight could reach the earth at that time...the sun and moon were already there...

1:16—How could God produce light on the first day if the luminaries were not made until the fourth day? The Hebrew word rendered “make” in Ge 1 verse 16 is not the same as the word for “create” used in Genesis 1:1, 21, 27 chapter 1, verses 1, 21, and 27. “The heavens” that included the luminaries were created long before the “first day” even began. But their light did not reach the surface of the earth. On the first day, “there came to be light” because diffused light penetrated the cloud layers and became visible on the earth. The rotating earth thus began to have alternating day and night. (Genesis 1:1-3, 5) The sources of that light still remained invisible from the earth. During the fourth creative period, however, a notable change took place. The sun, the moon, and the stars were now made “to shine upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:17) “God proceeded to make” them in that they could now be seen from the earth.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004004

GOD is the light of the world, HE created light and then went on to create a "material" source. GOD wasn't/isn't limited to materials nor by creation. HE is above all! HE created EVERYTHING that exists.

 

[Daisy]

GOD is the light of the world, HE created light and then went on to create a "material" source. GOD wasn't/isn't limited to materials nor by creation. HE is above all! HE created EVERYTHING that exists.

That has not one iota of relevance to my post...

 

[Lisa]

He didn't...He merely made it so the sunlight could reach the earth at that time...the sun and moon were already there...

1:16—How could God produce light on the first day if the luminaries were not made until the fourth day? The Hebrew word rendered “make” in Ge 1 verse 16 is not the same as the word for “create” used in Genesis 1:1, 21, 27 chapter 1, verses 1, 21, and 27. “The heavens” that included the luminaries were created long before the “first day” even began. But their light did not reach the surface of the earth. On the first day, “there came to be light” because diffused light penetrated the cloud layers and became visible on the earth. The rotating earth thus began to have alternating day and night. (Genesis 1:1-3, 5) The sources of that light still remained invisible from the earth. During the fourth creative period, however, a notable change took place. The sun, the moon, and the stars were now made “to shine upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:17) “God proceeded to make” them in that they could now be seen from the earth.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004004

Light from the sun only takes 8.5 minutes to reach earth. Try again, but with facts.

Light travels at a speed of 299,792 kilometers per second; 186,287 miles per second. It takes 499.0 seconds for light to travel from the Sun to the Earth, a distance called 1 Astronomical Unit.

 

[Somerville]

To believe that tissue could remain pliable for 70 to 100 million plus years (and even have a smell) seems like a great length to me. To believe that biological life originated spontaniously from inaniment compounds without GOD is even more of a stretch. I guess it all depends on who one wishes to place his faith in.

Yep - believe a fellow Believer or believe the scientists who can explain the process. Preservation of Soft Tissue in Dinosaur Fossils

 

[Daisy]

Light from the sun only takes 8.5 minutes to reach earth. Try again, but with facts.

Try reading again, only with a little comprehension this time...

The sources of that light still remained invisible from the earth. During the fourth creative period, however, a notable change took place. The sun, the moon, and the stars were now made “to shine upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:17) “God proceeded to make” them in that they could now be seen from the earth.

 

[LittleNipper]

That has not one iota of relevance to my post...

Your post misquotes the Bible. On the 4th day GOD made the sun, moon and stars. People want to make GOD scientific. HE isn't! HE is the CREATOR and everything begin with HIM and not from a point of scientific research (which originates from man). If GOD made the light first, HE could then make a distant star and have the light HE created coming from that star. GOD's Word also reveals that GOD spread out the heavens like a curtain. You can take that to mean what you wish, but it does sound like GOD moved the stars away and spread them out... JOHN 1:3
Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him.

 

[Daisy]

Your post misquotes the Bible. On the 4th day GOD made the sun, moon and stars. People want to make GOD scientific. HE isn't! HE is the CREATOR and everything begin with HIM and not from a point of scientific research (which originates from man). If GOD made the light first, HE could then make a distant star and have the light HE created coming from that star. GOD's Word also reveals that GOD spread out the heavens like a curtain. You can take that to mean what you wish, but it does sound like GOD moved the stars away and spread them out...

Wrong...Genesis 1:1,3..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...And God said: “Let there be light.” Then there was light."

The Genesis account relates that during the fourth creative “day,” God caused luminaries to “come to be in the expanse of the heavens.” (Ge 1:14, 19) This does not indicate the coming into existence of light (Heb., ʼohr) itself, since this is shown to have existed previously. (Ge 1:3) Nor does it state that the sun, moon, and stars were created at this point. The initial verse of the Bible states: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Ge 1:1) Thus the heavens with their celestial bodies, including the sun, existed for an undetermined period of time prior to the processes and events stated as occurring during the six creative periods described in the following verses of the first chapter of Genesis.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002792

 

[tosca1]

It's hard to believe no temple was built in the place of the ark. It seems like something Noah and his family would want to commemorate.

Why? What about the ark?

Is the ark to be thanked........................ or, GOD?
Wouldn't that be skating aroubd something that angered God regarding worship of images?
I'm sure they gave thanks to God.

 

[LittleNipper]

Wrong...Genesis 1:1,3..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...And God said: “Let there be light.” Then there was light."

The Genesis account relates that during the fourth creative “day,” God caused luminaries to “come to be in the expanse of the heavens.” (Ge 1:14, 19) This does not indicate the coming into existence of light (Heb., ʼohr) itself, since this is shown to have existed previously. (Ge 1:3) Nor does it state that the sun, moon, and stars were created at this point. The initial verse of the Bible states: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Ge 1:1) Thus the heavens with their celestial bodies, including the sun, existed for an undetermined period of time prior to the processes and events stated as occurring during the six creative periods described in the following verses of the first chapter of Genesis.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002792

1 In the beginning, when God created the universe, 2 the earth was formless and desolate. The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness, and the Spirit of God was moving over the water. 3 Then God commanded, “Let there be light”—and light appeared. 4 God was pleased with what he saw. Then he separated the light from the darkness, 5 and he named the light “Day” and the darkness “Night.” Evening passed and morning came—that was the first day.

6-7 Then God commanded, “Let there be a dome to divide the water and to keep it in two separate places”—and it was done. So God made a dome, and it separated the water under it from the water above it. 8 He named the dome “Sky.” Evening passed and morning came—that was the second day.

9 Then God commanded, “Let the water below the sky come together in one place, so that the land will appear”—and it was done. 10 He named the land “Earth,” and the water which had come together he named “Sea.” And God was pleased with what he saw. 11 Then he commanded, “Let the earth produce all kinds of plants, those that bear grain and those that bear fruit”—and it was done. 12 So the earth produced all kinds of plants, and God was pleased with what he saw. 13 Evening passed and morning came—that was the third day.

14 Then God commanded, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate day from night and to show the time when days, years, and religious festivals[c] begin; 15 they will shine in the sky to give light to the earth”—and it was done. 16 So God made the two larger lights, the sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night; he also made the stars. 17 He placed the lights in the sky to shine on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God was pleased with what he saw. 19 Evening passed and morning came—that was the fourth day.

20 Then God commanded, “Let the water be filled with many kinds of living beings, and let the air be filled with birds.” 21 So God created the great sea monsters, all kinds of creatures that live in the water, and all kinds of birds. And God was pleased with what he saw. 22 He blessed them all and told the creatures that live in the water to reproduce and to fill the sea, and he told the birds to increase in number. 23 Evening passed and morning came—that was the fifth day.

24 Then God commanded, “Let the earth produce all kinds of animal life: domestic and wild, large and small”—and it was done. 25 So God made them all, and he was pleased with what he saw.

26 Then God said, “And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild,[d] large and small.” 27 So God created human beings, making them to be like himself. He created them male and female, 28 blessed them, and said, “Have many children, so that your descendants will live all over the earth and bring it under their control. I am putting you in charge of the fish, the birds, and all the wild animals. 29 I have provided all kinds of grain and all kinds of fruit for you to eat; 30 but for all the wild animals and for all the birds I have provided grass and leafy plants for food”—and it was done. 31 God looked at everything he had made, and he was very pleased. Evening passed and morning came—that was the sixth day.

 

[rahl]

Why? What about the ark?

Is the ark to be thanked........................ or, GOD?
Wouldn't that be skating aroubd something that angered God regarding worship of images?
I'm sure they gave thanks to God.

setting aside the fact that there was never at any time a global flood, why on earth would a group of survivors be thankful to the entity that specifically caused said extinction event?

 

[Individual]

To believe that tissue could remain pliable for 70 to 100 million plus years (and even have a smell) seems like a great length to me. To believe that biological life originated spontaniously from inaniment compounds without GOD is even more of a stretch. I guess it all depends on who one wishes to place his faith in.

Given up on Noah have we?

 

[Daisy]

1 In the beginning, when God created the universe, 2 the earth was formless and desolate. The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness, and the Spirit of God was moving over the water. 3 Then God commanded, “Let there be light”—and light appeared. 4 God was pleased with what he saw. Then he separated the light from the darkness, 5 and he named the light “Day” and the darkness “Night.” Evening passed and morning came—that was the first day.

6-7 Then God commanded, “Let there be a dome to divide the water and to keep it in two separate places”—and it was done. So God made a dome, and it separated the water under it from the water above it. 8 He named the dome “Sky.” Evening passed and morning came—that was the second day.

9 Then God commanded, “Let the water below the sky come together in one place, so that the land will appear”—and it was done. 10 He named the land “Earth,” and the water which had come together he named “Sea.” And God was pleased with what he saw. 11 Then he commanded, “Let the earth produce all kinds of plants, those that bear grain and those that bear fruit”—and it was done. 12 So the earth produced all kinds of plants, and God was pleased with what he saw. 13 Evening passed and morning came—that was the third day.

14 Then God commanded, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate day from night and to show the time when days, years, and religious festivals[c] begin; 15 they will shine in the sky to give light to the earth”—and it was done. 16 So God made the two larger lights, the sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night; he also made the stars. 17 He placed the lights in the sky to shine on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God was pleased with what he saw. 19 Evening passed and morning came—that was the fourth day.

20 Then God commanded, “Let the water be filled with many kinds of living beings, and let the air be filled with birds.” 21 So God created the great sea monsters, all kinds of creatures that live in the water, and all kinds of birds. And God was pleased with what he saw. 22 He blessed them all and told the creatures that live in the water to reproduce and to fill the sea, and he told the birds to increase in number. 23 Evening passed and morning came—that was the fifth day.

24 Then God commanded, “Let the earth produce all kinds of animal life: domestic and wild, large and small”—and it was done. 25 So God made them all, and he was pleased with what he saw.

26 Then God said, “And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild,[d] large and small.” 27 So God created human beings, making them to be like himself. He created them male and female, 28 blessed them, and said, “Have many children, so that your descendants will live all over the earth and bring it under their control. I am putting you in charge of the fish, the birds, and all the wild animals. 29 I have provided all kinds of grain and all kinds of fruit for you to eat; 30 but for all the wild animals and for all the birds I have provided grass and leafy plants for food”—and it was done. 31 God looked at everything he had made, and he was very pleased. Evening passed and morning came—that was the sixth day.

I've read it many times and you are still wrong...

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Why? What about the ark?

Is the ark to be thanked........................ or, GOD?
Wouldn't that be skating aroubd something that angered God regarding worship of images?
I'm sure they gave thanks to God.

Thanks God, for putting my family through a smelly ordeal, and destroying all the topsoil and killing all my friends. Top notch.

Of course they would mark the location the Ark came to rest, that being God's work. The absense of a temple and an ark nearby (or surrounding) is just more evidence against, imo.

 

[calamity]

Why? What about the ark?

Is the ark to be thanked........................ or, GOD?
Wouldn't that be skating aroubd something that angered God regarding worship of images?
I'm sure they gave thanks to God.

Wait. Do you really want to thank the god who flooded the earth and killed everything on it except for a few pairs of things after whispering into the ear of an old man, telling him to build a boat?

 

[LittleNipper]

Yep - believe a fellow Believer or believe the scientists who can explain the process. Preservation of Soft Tissue in Dinosaur Fossils

TOTAL NONSENSE! What else can they say? Soft tissue could never exist that long, so the fossils discovered could not possibly be as old as once thought? Such a revelation would injure the theory of evolution. The actual dating of our planet would come into question. The FLOOD would become quite feasible. The research of hundreds of individuals would be turned on its ear. SO, is it okay to believe a fellow believer or is it better if an evolutionist accepts the explanation of another evoltionist?

 

[calamity]

TOTAL NONSENSE! What else can they say? Soft tissue could never exist that long, so the fossils discovered could not possibly be as old as once thought? Such a revelation would injure the theory of evolution. The actual dating of our planet would come into question. The FLOOD would become quite feasible. The research of hundreds of individuals would be turned on its ear. SO, is it okay to believe a fellow believer or is it better if an evolutionist accepts the explanation of another evoltionist?

OMG!

That post should be a comedy routine.

 

[LittleNipper]

I've read it many times and you are still wrong...

Your wrong and not the Bible.

 

[Daisy]

Your wrong and not the Bible.

So, you're saying the Bible contradicts itself/lies...got it...

 

[LittleNipper]

OMG!

That post should be a comedy routine.

Have you ever seen an egyptian mummy? How old are they? Have you seen a skeleton that was simply buried in the ground for 2000 years? Think of not 4000 years, but 1000000 years? That is 250 times 4000 years. Who is being unreasonable? What is laughable? Their only explanation is (according to them) that the fossils have to be that old and so that proves that the soft tissue could last that long! Talk about circular reasoning! I don't accept their explanation! They have proven nothing.