The First Problem With the Transgender Debate

[gino]

The way I see it, the first problem with the transgender debate is that we aren't even on the same page when we talk about what a transgender person is. NOW, The National Organization of Women, has stated that a person who is transgendered can be anything from a cross-dressing man (who has had nothing removed or any hormone treatments) to someone who has undergone the full surgical change. And NOW has stated that ANY transgendered man is now 100% a LEGAL woman, even if they haven't had anything done to them. So, a cross-dressing man who claims to be a woman is now LEGALLY a woman, according to the largest woman's rights organization in the US.

Many of us could care less, except that they are trying to allow trans people to compete in women's sports. According to NOW, any man can "identify as a woman" and legally compete in any woman's sporting event. Without any altering of the anatomy, a full male can now compete with biological women, at least according to NOW.

Most of us have realized for years that the National Organization of Women is just a ploy for lesbians to gain more political power. It's going to be interesting when women start to lose every sporting event to men. Will we finally see women in this country stand up to the "Feminist Movement" as they should have years ago?

 

[buck]

The way I see it, the first problem with the transgender debate is that we aren't even on the same page when we talk about what a transgender person is. NOW, The National Organization of Women, has stated that a person who is transgendered can be anything from a cross-dressing man (who has had nothing removed or any hormone treatments) to someone who has undergone the full surgical change. And NOW has stated that ANY transgendered man is now 100% a LEGAL woman, even if they haven't had anything done to them. So, a cross-dressing man who claims to be a woman is now LEGALLY a woman, according to the largest woman's rights organization in the US.

Many of us could care less, except that they are trying to allow trans people to compete in women's sports. According to NOW, any man can "identify as a woman" and legally compete in any woman's sporting event. Without any altering of the anatomy, a full male can now compete with biological women, at least according to NOW.

Most of us have realized for years that the National Organization of Women is just a ploy for lesbians to gain more political power. It's going to be interesting when women start to lose every sporting event to men. Will we finally see women in this country stand up to the "Feminist Movement" as they should have years ago?

I think the first problem is that the research is not being completed in a legitimate manner. So, we don't even know what is going on. NICE/NHS has just released a report about the research of pubery blockers on kids being very low quality. As part of that, it came out that some of the bigger researchers pushing PB on the issue are profiting by working for the pharma creating the puberty blockers.

If we can ever get to higher quality research that is not being impacted by politics and profit, we might actually be able to start addressing the rest.

Other than that, I largely agree with you. Most of it can be cleared up with independent research.

 

[Lisa]

The way I see it, the first problem with the transgender debate is that we aren't even on the same page when we talk about what a transgender person is. NOW, The National Organization of Women, has stated that a person who is transgendered can be anything from a cross-dressing man (who has had nothing removed or any hormone treatments) to someone who has undergone the full surgical change. And NOW has stated that ANY transgendered man is now 100% a LEGAL woman, even if they haven't had anything done to them. So, a cross-dressing man who claims to be a woman is now LEGALLY a woman, according to the largest woman's rights organization in the US.

Many of us could care less, except that they are trying to allow trans people to compete in women's sports. According to NOW, any man can "identify as a woman" and legally compete in any woman's sporting event. Without any altering of the anatomy, a full male can now compete with biological women, at least according to NOW.

Most of us have realized for years that the National Organization of Women is just a ploy for lesbians to gain more political power. It's going to be interesting when women start to lose every sporting event to men. Will we finally see women in this country stand up to the "Feminist Movement" as they should have years ago?

NOW sound like TERFs when they try to confuse the situation Crossdressers and transveesties are not transgendered. They dress for a fetish or sexual thrill and do not have a female gender identity, do not take HRT, and do not seek to transition or have GRS. There are some crossdressers who will later go on to be trans because crossdressing is commonly seen as the first step to coming out as trans.

 

[maquiscat]

The way I see it, the first problem with the transgender debate is that we aren't even on the same page when we talk about what a transgender person is. NOW, The National Organization of Women, has stated that a person who is transgendered can be anything from a cross-dressing man (who has had nothing removed or any hormone treatments) to someone who has undergone the full surgical change. And NOW has stated that ANY transgendered man is now 100% a LEGAL woman, even if they haven't had anything done to them. So, a cross-dressing man who claims to be a woman is now LEGALLY a woman, according to the largest woman's rights organization in the US.

Many of us could care less, except that they are trying to allow trans people to compete in women's sports. According to NOW, any man can "identify as a woman" and legally compete in any woman's sporting event. Without any altering of the anatomy, a full male can now compete with biological women, at least according to NOW.

Most of us have realized for years that the National Organization of Women is just a ploy for lesbians to gain more political power. It's going to be interesting when women start to lose every sporting event to men. Will we finally see women in this country stand up to the "Feminist Movement" as they should have years ago?

First NOW doesn't make law, so they can shove their concepts up their arses. They also don't control the sports organizations, and most have been addressing the issue, which have affected even cis-women who have naturally high testosterone.

That said, I agree about the not being on the same page. And I believe a large part of it is language. We are taking something that we used to think was one way and now are realizing it is another way and trying to use similar language to describe. And it's understandable. First, those who are different want to have that difference recognized, but not to an extent that they are discriminated against. Same as for race and sexual orientation, and many other things. And to make matters worse, while there seems to be a lot of agreements among the non-cis community, there is also a lot of disagreement. For example, some transgender people will say the use of the term "trans" is "transphobic" (although I have yet to understand why), yet there are others trans people who use the term trans and tell their friends and family that it is fine. We have a transwoman here, who is of that later camp. The term transgender has replaced transsexual, and transsexual seem to have moved to apply to those have had the SRS (instead of any lesser transitioning. And by lesser, I mean less done), or an insult, depending on who you talk to. Hell right now you can't get agreement on whether lesbians are gay or gay only applies to men.