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The Failure of ‘Defund the Police’

Antiwar

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I know you don’t hide your political positions. It’s why it’s so easy to determine that you live in some sort of fairy tale land and not the real world.
I accept your challenge. Post an actual critique of any of my comments, instead of your "fairy tale" and "real world" fluff.
 

CLAX1911

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It is a tough job, yes. An often thankless job, I'm sure. The good people who are drawn to that occupation appear to be called to performing that service for their communities.
It's worse than that. It's not simply thankless, even if you are doing everything right you can lose your job, career and everything. It isn't a wise decision for anybody ever to do that job. Hence for every good person it attracts it also attracted 50 that simply want a pay check.
LEOs all over the country have been laid siege to, been isolated, socially ostracized, and violently and verbally attacked and abused, only to be stabbed in the back by their local government.
My point exactly. Why would anybody with integrity take that job. That's exactly why I walked away. You're integrity will not just go unthanked, you will be punished for it.
Is it any wonder that they've retreated (Ferguson effect) and on other fronts and retrenched? Wouldn't that be a normal human reaction?
Or quit.
What is your take on possibly improving the response from the other 1/2 of the parties involved?
Not sure you can.
 

braindrain

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"Virtue signalling" is just another lame conservative term for "I don't give a :poop: ."
No it’s not. It’s similar to liberals calling for a ban on assault rifles but not handguns despite the fact that all rifles are used in less then 1% of all murders. Just like how liberals never say a word about the fact that homicide is the leading cause of death for young black males. It only matters when it is a white cop that is involved.

If people like you actually cared about the things you claim you are about then your priorities would be close to the complete

It’s sad that you don’t realize just how painfully obvious your BS is.
 

Antiwar

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No it’s not. It’s similar to liberals calling for a ban on assault rifles but not handguns despite the fact that all rifles are used in less then 1% of all murders. Just like how liberals never say a word about the fact that homicide is the leading cause of death for young black males. It only matters when it is a white cop that is involved.

If people like you actually cared about the things you claim you are about then your priorities would be close to the complete

It’s sad that you don’t realize just how painfully obvious your BS is.
What a load of straw man arguments.
 

CLAX1911

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No it’s not. It’s similar to liberals calling for a ban on assault rifles but not handguns despite the fact that all rifles are used in less then 1% of all murders. Just like how liberals never say a word about the fact that homicide is the leading cause of death for young black males. It only matters when it is a white cop that is involved.

If people like you actually cared about the things you claim you are about then your priorities would be close to the complete

It’s sad that you don’t realize just how painfully obvious your BS is.
All he did was say it was a conservative conspiracy and deny it. That isn't an argument it's denial.
 

eohrnberger

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It's worse than that. It's not simply thankless, even if you are doing everything right you can lose your job, career and everything. It isn't a wise decision for anybody ever to do that job. Hence for every good person it attracts it also attracted 50 that simply want a pay check.
My point exactly. Why would anybody with integrity take that job. That's exactly why I walked away. You're integrity will not just go unthanked, you will be punished for it. Or quit.
Not sure you can.
I respect that you once served in that occupation. I really hope that the dark picture you paint isn't the most prevalent, and would hope better for those that chose to serve in that capacity.

If it isn't humanly possible to perform the much needed service, as your dark picture paints, what's next? RoboCop?
 

Antiwar

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All he did was say it was a conservative conspiracy and deny it. That isn't an argument it's denial.
Conspiracy is the wrong word. Conservatives seem to love to vice signal.
 

CLAX1911

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I respect that you once served in that occupation. I really hope that the dark picture you paint isn't the most prevalent, and would hope better for those that chose to serve in that capacity.
I was in police academy with 46 other students in 2013. 6 of them are police officers.

If it isn't humanly possible to perform the much needed service, as your dark picture paints, what's next? RoboCop?
No. The problem isn't the police that is a symptom. The problem is the justice system. The reform needs to start there and it'll trickle down.
 

braindrain

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What a load of straw man arguments.
It is painfully obvious why you want to pretend that what I said was a straw man. Unfortunately for you no matter for much you squirm it direct change reality.
 

trixare4kids

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So, throw more money at the problem.

It's only logical that if the cop blamers demand the cops need better training and stricter oversight, then they ought to be for throwing more money at the problem.
 

eohrnberger

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I was in police academy with 46 other students in 2013. 6 of them are police officers.

No. The problem isn't the police that is a symptom. The problem is the justice system. The reform needs to start there and it'll trickle down.
OK. Fair enough. The justice system has problems. Which do you think are the problems that most cause such a dark reality?
 

braindrain

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It's only logical that if the cop blamers demand the cops need better training and stricter oversight, then they ought to be for throwing more money at the problem.
You don’t seem to get it. Police departments are supposed to be much more selective on who they hire and give those people much more training and do all that with much less money.
It makes perfect sense if you look at it from a liberal point of view.

why would anyone not take liberals seriously I will never get.
 

CLAX1911

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OK. Fair enough. The justice system has problems. Which do you think are the problems that most cause such a dark reality?
Well for starters broken prisons that only make better criminals. Locking up drug users for decades and releasing murders after two years. Anti male bias. Ignoring threats to peace to avoid a so called "school to prison pipeline."

If all you're doing is being part of a merry go round you aren't going to be committed to the job very long.
 

trixare4kids

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You don’t seem to get it. Police departments are supposed to be much more selective on who they hire and give those people much more training and do all that with much less money.
It makes perfect sense if you look at it from a liberal point of view.

why would anyone not take liberals seriously I will never get.

You're preaching to the choir. Or maybe I am missing the snark in your post? ;) Late edit: Sorry, I did miss your sarcasm. My apology.

My oldest son is a retired chief of police in an upscale suburb of Chicago.
He came in with a college degree, started at 22 as a rookie, worked his way up, returned to school and received his masters and eventually earned being a chief. He made a good living. He's making even a bigger one now that he retired young, is well educated and just started a second career.

Btw, I do not find most of today's liberals liberal at all. Intolerant illiberals are what they are...My opinion.
 

Antiwar

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You don’t seem to get it. Police departments are supposed to be much more selective on who they hire and give those people much more training and do all that with much less money.
It makes perfect sense if you look at it from a liberal point of view.

why would anyone not take liberals seriously I will never get.
Are you intellectually dishonest and/or ignorant when you post abrasive straw man arguments?
 

eohrnberger

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Well for starters broken prisons that only make better criminals.
Yes, I've heard of prisons being 'crime-u' (university). But I've also heard of rehabilitation and occupational training efforts. Of course I've also heard of Islamic fundamentalism indoctrination creating the next generation of domestic terrorists as well.

Locking up drug users for decades and releasing murders after two years. Anti male bias. Ignoring threats to peace to avoid a so called "school to prison pipeline."
How are you going to codify and enforce sentencing guidelines for judges?

If all you're doing is being part of a merry go round you aren't going to be committed to the job very long.
Fair. It would be difficult to be committed to a job in that situation. But it seems that even just recently (like 5 or 10 years ago) it wasn't like that.
Or was this just better hidden from public sight in those years?
I have to say that the local DAs to which Soros contributed large sums have opened up the gates of that justice system 'merry go round'. Something that I've never agreed with nor supported.

Which state / area of the nation was it in which you served in the LEO role? (If you don't mind me asking).
 

CLAX1911

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Yes, I've heard of prisons being 'crime-u' (university). But I've also heard of rehabilitation and occupational training efforts.
That's another facet. Rehabilitation only works on people who wish to be rehabilitated.
Of course I've also heard of Islamic fundamentalism indoctrination creating the next generation of domestic terrorists as well.
OKAY.
How are you going to codify and enforce sentencing guidelines for judges?
They already are codified. Just because I know what the problem is doesn't mean I know how to solve it.

Fair. It would be difficult to be committed to a job in that situation.
It's impossible. You are literally doing nothing.
But it seems that even just recently (like 5 or 10 years ago) it wasn't like that.
Or was this just better hidden from public sight in those years?
That's the time frame I was in it. The only thing different now is the public wants you paid less.
I have to say that the local DAs to which Soros contributed large sums have opened up the gates of that justice system 'merry go round'. Something that I've never agreed with nor supported.
Do you think that's something new?
Which state / area of the nation was it in which you served in the LEO role? (If you don't mind me asking).
Not at all. South east Texas.
 

eohrnberger

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That's another facet. Rehabilitation only works on people who wish to be rehabilitated.
Very true. Raises the question why there are so many people who end up going against society and civilization. There would seem to be a correlation between single parent families and this behavior. Yes, there are some single parent families which don't go down that path, but there are far more single parent families which do (and no, I don't have a ready citation for that, that's my impression / opinion).
OKAY.
They already are codified. Just because I know what the problem is doesn't mean I know how to solve it.
Fair. I was only seeking if you had any insights from your previous role, because I don't have any either. :(
It's impossible. You are literally doing nothing.
That's the time frame I was in it. The only thing different now is the public wants you paid less.
😱 I guess the next question is when will the 'thin blue line' break? Given the large scale police retirements in NYC, Minnesota and other Democrat controlled cities, it may yet not that far off.
I suppose I can take solace in being in the Detroit Metro area, at least for now. I think Chief Craig is doing well in his role.
Do you think that's something new?
The first that I noticed it was when Soros and his leftist foundations contributed to those DA's campaigns. Then I see that they were elected, and after that I see how they've only decreased the actual enforcement of laws by any excuse available. You are telling me that this isn't the first time for something like this?
Not at all. South east Texas.
Arrg. Even in Texas? Oh man. Yeah, that does paint a rather dark picture for the future.
 

CLAX1911

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Very true. Raises the question why there are so many people who end up going against society and civilization. There would seem to be a correlation between single parent families and this behavior. Yes, there are some single parent families which don't go down that path, but there are far more single parent families which do (and no, I don't have a ready citation for that, that's my impression / opinion).
That's getting into why people commit crimes, I don't disagree, but I think it's outside the scope of the discussion
Fair. I was only seeking if you had any insights from your previous role, because I don't have any either. :(
From the perspective of an LEO it's broken and there is nothing you can do. Nobody listens to you and everybody hates you.
😱 I guess the next question is when will the 'thin blue line' break? Given the large scale police retirements in NYC, Minnesota and other Democrat controlled cities, it may yet not that far off.
My guess budget police, and they'll get what they pay for.
I suppose I can take solace in being in the Detroit Metro area, at least for now. I think Chief Craig is doing well in his role.
I'd say depend on yourself.
The first that I noticed it was when Soros and his leftist foundations contributed to those DA's campaigns. Then I see that they were elected, and after that I see how they've only decreased the actual enforcement of laws by any excuse available. You are telling me that this isn't the first time for something like this?
It's been happening for years.
Arrg. Even in Texas? Oh man. Yeah, that does paint a rather dark picture for the future.
Big lefty city in Texas we do have those.
 

eohrnberger

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That's getting into why people commit crimes, I don't disagree, but I think it's outside the scope of the discussion
Yeah, it is.
From the perspective of an LEO it's broken and there is nothing you can do. Nobody listens to you and everybody hates you.
I don't hate cops, so there's at least one, I guess.
My guess budget police, and they'll get what they pay for.
I'd say depend on yourself.
It's been happening for years.
Big lefty city in Texas we do have those.
True.
Appreciate your time and patience with me. All my best to you.
 

CLAX1911

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Yeah, it is.

I don't hate cops, so there's at least one, I guess.
I don't think most people hate cops it's just that's what the media tells them. It's probably people like you that encourage those of them out there to put their belt on every day.
True.
Appreciate your time and patience with me. All my best to you.
I enjoyed the discussion with you. Even if we don't agree it's good to talk about certain things.
 

MTAtech

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The Failure of ‘Defund the Police’


An excellent article with some interesting questions.
While right-wingers have latched onto the literal words of “defund the police,” that isn’t what proponents mean. The term means take social service functions, like responding to a mentally ill person, away from the police and give it to personnel trained in handling the mentally ill.

While the author of that National Review piece attempts to hang the problem of police abuse around the necks of Democrats, it’s a nationwide problem.

In the last 20 years we see police overreach in New Orlean, Arkansas, and other Republican controlled areas.
 
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