The Electoral College

[99percenter]

no, the average rich person is more likely to vote GOP than Democrat

The facts don't support that. Obama, clinton and biden all won folks that make 200k.

 

[TurtleDude]

The facts don't support that. Obama, clinton and biden all won folks that make 200k.

well I proved that those making more than 100K had at least a 10 point gap in favor of the GOP candidates. You had one source suggesting that Obama had a very slight edge in those making over 200k. That means lots more wealthy-upper middle class people voted GOP. and every case-the poorest quarter substantially supported the democrats

as I noted, those who want to be the parents of others combine with people who want to be children all their lives

 

[99percenter]

well I proved that those making more than 100K had at least a 10 point gap in favor of the GOP candidates. You had one source suggesting that Obama had a very slight edge in those making over 200k. That means lots more wealthy-upper middle class people voted GOP. and every case-the poorest quarter substantially supported the democrats

as I noted, those who want to be the parents of others combine with people who want to be children all their lives

So you proved the upper middle class supported gop candidates. The wealthy and the poor support dems. Is that your point?

 

[TurtleDude]

So you proved the upper middle class supported gop candidates. The wealthy and the poor support dems. Is that your point?

no most of the wealthy support the GOP. if you define wealthy as making over 100K a year.

 

[99percenter]

no most of the wealthy support the GOP. if you define wealthy as making over 100K a year.

100k is middle class nowadays.

 

[TurtleDude]

100k is middle class nowadays.

depends where you live. In big blue cities, I would agree with you. In most of the rest of the country its upper middle class.

 

[American]

Why is the idea of dumping the electoral college and just having the winner declared by whoever gets the most votes a bad thing?

It works in Europe just fine.

Because we're not Europe, on purpose. In fact we're not like anyone else, on purpose. That fact that you don't know that is somewhat astounding. Now that you're aware, please try to understand how and why the Electoral College works. It's all spelled out in the Federalist Paper #68.

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68

 

[Peter]

Because we're not Europe, on purpose. In fact we're not like anyone else, on purpose. That fact that you don't know that is somewhat astounding. Now that you're aware, please try to understand how and why the Electoral College works. It's all spelled out in the Federalist Paper #68.

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68

This idea that the US is somehow so special that no other system than what you have now is possible is all rather odd.
Again I ask, why is the idea of the voters being the deciding factor so scary for you?
Many Americans think the Electoral College system stinks and they know all about why it was formed so it's not like the idea is all that outlandish.

 

[mrjurrs]

Because we're not Europe, on purpose. In fact we're not like anyone else, on purpose. That fact that you don't know that is somewhat astounding. Now that you're aware, please try to understand how and why the Electoral College works. It's all spelled out in the Federalist Paper #68.

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68

The Federalist Papers were a marketing brochure for the Constitution. They said why the USC should be ratified. The Constitution says everything we need to know about the EC in Article 2 Sect 1 clauses 2&3. Clause 4 is where it gets interesting.

 

[noonereal]

Why is the idea of dumping the electoral college and just having the winner declared by whoever gets the most votes a bad thing?

It works in Europe just fine.

Because it would transfer the USA back to the world leader and the unwashed here in the states want no part of that. They want to live in 1850. (or as close to 1850 as they can)

 

[noonereal]

Again I ask, why is the idea of the voters being the deciding factor so scary for you?

It strips deplorables of the ability to rule the majority. Deplorables are fear living in the present more than anything on earth.

 

[99percenter]

This idea that the US is somehow so special that no other system than what you have now is possible is all rather odd.
Again I ask, why is the idea of the voters being the deciding factor so scary for you?
Many Americans think the Electoral College system stinks and they know all about why it was formed so it's not like the idea is all that outlandish.

Yep. And the discussion hasn't been new. I don't think anything was done back then because the popular vote winner usually wins the electoral college. It has now come underfire because two of the last gop presidents were elected that way.

 

[TurtleDude]

This idea that the US is somehow so special that no other system than what you have now is possible is all rather odd.
Again I ask, why is the idea of the voters being the deciding factor so scary for you?
Many Americans think the Electoral College system stinks and they know all about why it was formed so it's not like the idea is all that outlandish.

many americans have been addicted to the democrats beloved concept of instant gratification and desire to change rules that have worked well for centuries, if the whiners don't get their way RIGHT NOW

 

[TurtleDude]

Because it would transfer the USA back to the world leader and the unwashed here in the states want to part of that. They want to live in 1850. (or as close to 1850 as they can)

we'd love to have those who don't like our constitutional system to move to Eurosocialist nations and whine there

 

[prometeus]

Because we're not Europe, on purpose.

Yea, those ****ing plates drifted apart and separated us from them, even putting an ocean between us. Did they debate that in Philly or somewhere else?

In fact we're not like anyone else, on purpose.

At least at the time of founding. Since then we are in many ways very similar to many plces.

That fact that you don't know that is somewhat astounding.

The fact that you think that is not in the least so.

please try to understand how and why the Electoral College works.

Actually it does not.

It's all spelled out in the Federalist Paper #68.

Is it? Which part, but lets see:

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation

Explain how by this criteria was an asshole like Trump chosen?

A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.

Then, maybe, but certainly not now. What supports such a notion in this day and age that only a select few can make such decisions?

It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder.

It worked so well on Jan. 6 didn't it.

But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.

How so?

They have not made the appointment of the President to depend on any preexisting bodies of men, who might be tampered with beforehand to prostitute their votes

Right, because it is so much easier to tamper with the entire population than the few electors.

Another and no less important desideratum was, that the Executive should be independent for his continuance in office on all but the people themselves.

So the President should only depend on the people for re-election, but the people should not do the electing.

The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications. Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union

So much for moral certainty that Trump even came close to the criteria needed to "establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union."

 

[TurtleDude]

Yea, those ****ing plates drifted apart and separated us from them, even putting an ocean between us. Did they debate that in Philly or somewhere else?

At least at the time of founding. Since then we are in many ways very similar to many plces.

The fact that you think that is not in the least so.

Actually it does not.

Is it? Which part, but lets see:


Explain how by this criteria was an asshole like Trump chosen?

Then, maybe, but certainly not now. What supports such a notion in this day and age that only a select few can make such decisions?

It worked so well on Jan. 6 didn't it.

How so?

Right, because it is so much easier to tamper with the entire population than the few electors.

So the President should only depend on the people for re-election, but the people should not do the electing.

So much for moral certainty that Trump even came close to the criteria needed to "establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union."

yawn. Trump lost, find someone else to whine about. Trump was a better choice than Hillary and Senile Joe

 

[prometeus]

yawn. Trump lost, find someone else to whine about. Trump was a better choice than Hillary and Senile Joe

This is not about Trump but the simple fact that the EC failed by the criteria outlined in Federalist #68 and your juvenile labeling is the only whining here.

 

[TurtleDude]

This is not about Trump but the simple fact that the EC failed by the criteria outlined in Federalist #68 and your juvenile labeling is the only whining here.

it didn't fail. It kept California from having too much influence. the main good of the electoral college is preventing a heavily blue state from corrupting the election through vote fraud. whether the Democrat wins by 100,000 valid votes or 5 million fraudulent votes, the impact on the election is the same That is the real brilliance of the EC

 

[prometeus]

it didn't fail.at

Of course it failed by the criteria outlined. If you have difficulty grasping that, it means it does not work as described.

It kept California from having too much influence.

Where is that one of the criterias in Federalist #68 or the Constitution?

the main good of the electoral college is preventing a heavily blue state from corrupting the election through vote fraud.

Right, it was a big concern back then. I never realized that Dominion goes back that far. Have you really lost even the slightest modicum of integrity?

 

[American]

Yea, those ****ing plates drifted apart and separated us from them, even putting an ocean between us. Did they debate that in Philly or somewhere else?

At least at the time of founding. Since then we are in many ways very similar to many plces.

The fact that you think that is not in the least so.

Actually it does not.

Is it? Which part, but lets see:


Explain how by this criteria was an asshole like Trump chosen?

Then, maybe, but certainly not now. What supports such a notion in this day and age that only a select few can make such decisions?

It worked so well on Jan. 6 didn't it.

How so?

Right, because it is so much easier to tamper with the entire population than the few electors.

So the President should only depend on the people for re-election, but the people should not do the electing.

So much for moral certainty that Trump even came close to the criteria needed to "establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union."

I'm surprised you didn't quote each letter?

Explain how a plagiarizing, senile, racist, corrupt asshole like Biden got elected.

 

[American]

This idea that the US is somehow so special that no other system than what you have now is possible is all rather odd.
Again I ask, why is the idea of the voters being the deciding factor so scary for you?
Many Americans think the Electoral College system stinks and they know all about why it was formed so it's not like the idea is all that outlandish.

It's irrelevant if ANOTHER system is possible. That's not the system created here. And I haven't seen anyone in government or academia yet that I think is smart enough to devise anything better.

 

[prometeus]

I'm surprised you didn't quote each letter?

Explain how a plagiarizing, senile, racist, corrupt asshole like Biden got elected.

Well, at least you are indirectly confirming that the EC is outdated in the least.

 

[prometeus]

It's irrelevant if ANOTHER system is possible.

After all "a more perfect union" has lost its meaning to people like you.

And I haven't seen anyone in government or academia yet that I think is smart enough to devise anything better.

A good thing is that we have you and people like you to make such determinations.

 

[American]

Well, at least you are indirectly confirming that the EC is outdated in the least.

No I'm not, so clearly you like to invent fantasy.

 

[prometeus]

No I'm not

Yet you could not refute what I said or even address it.