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The Dow has its first close above 12,000

Deegan

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"NEW YORK - The Dow Jones industrial average scored its first close above 12,000 Thursday as Wall Street managed to hold on to gains despite concerns about the strength of the economy."

http://news.yahoo.com/i/749

I know, damn the rich, they are the only ones reaping the rewards from this, but my 401K just did a whole lot better, and I'm far from rich.:shock:
 
Cammie said:
good news indeed

LOL, well at least there is one person who thought so, what........ain't ya people got no stocks?:shock:
 
My stocks went up about 20%. I should sell before the democrats take office and bring 'em back down.
 
This is like the 6th record close in the last month and unlike the fake Clinton growth this growth is real, the stocks aren't overpriced and worthless like in the tech bubble that popped these stocks are under priced, there's still money to be made.
 
Eh, too bad most economists believe the S&P is a far better indictator of how things are doing.

which, might I add, hasn't been doing that bad lately..
 
Its not a record, but just the biggest number on the Dow. The rightwing media machine has filled the airwaves with false information.. ever heard of inflation? For it to bet the high of the Clinton years, you need another 12 % or so on the Dow for it to be a true record. But dont let facts get in the way of bashing clinton or other and trying to push a "healthy economy" on the masses.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
...the fake Clinton growth...

...the stocks aren't overpriced and worthless...

Darn, you mean all that money I made back then is fake and worthless?

You mean, I really didn't retire @ age 50?

I guess I'd better call my financial adviser this morning and let him in on the news.

:rofl
 
BWG said:
Darn, you mean all that money I made back then is fake and worthless?

You mean, I really didn't retire @ age 50?

I guess I'd better call my financial adviser this morning and let him in on the news.

:rofl

So you got lucky and sold high it doesn't mean that the stocks weren't worthless that's why the tech bubble burst and people who weren't as lucky as you lost everything, because the companies weren't making any money to back their stocks economists and financial advisers back then were saying that this thing could collapse at anytime and they were right it did, but these stocks are actually worth something there is no bubble to pop because unlike the tech industry these companies are actually making money, rather than the stocks being overpriced like under Clinton they're underpriced.
 
PeteEU said:
Its not a record, but just the biggest number on the Dow. The rightwing media machine has filled the airwaves with false information.. ever heard of inflation? For it to bet the high of the Clinton years, you need another 12 % or so on the Dow for it to be a true record. But dont let facts get in the way of bashing clinton or other and trying to push a "healthy economy" on the masses.

You're right the DOW adjusted for inflation still has about 2000 points to go to bipass the record set Jan. 14, 2000 but guess what? The stocks then were worthless, nobody was diversifying and everyone was buying overpriced stock in tech companies that didn't have any money to back them up but unlike that false growth in the 90s that led some to lose everything the rally isn't limited to a single sector and corporate profits are high. This time there's no bubble to pop.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
You're right the DOW adjusted for inflation still has about 2000 points to go to bipass the record set Jan. 14, 2000 but guess what? The stocks then were worthless, nobody was diversifying and everyone was buying overpriced stock in tech companies that didn't have any money to back them up but unlike that false growth in the 90s that led some to lose everything the rally isn't limited to a single sector and corporate profits are high. This time there's no bubble to pop.

Does not matter if there is a bubble or not, facts are facts. The Dow has not hit a record high.. yet, but everyone on the right is shouting thier mouths off that it has. Infact if you do take inflation into account, the Dow is rather under average compared to quite a few overseas markets.

But as usual, facts and figures are warped by the right wing spin machine to fit thier version of the world. They keep forgetting to mention that real wages are flat at best and that the middle class on average is putting themselvs more and more in debt to keep the life styles they are use to.. but hey! dont let facts get in your way!

On a positive note, the weather is okay.
 
PeteEU said:
Does not matter if there is a bubble or not, facts are facts. The Dow has not hit a record high..

Only in inflation adjusted terms but that is not the standard upon which record high DOW closings are historically judged.

yet, but everyone on the right is shouting thier mouths off that it has. Infact if you do take inflation into account, the Dow is rather under average compared to quite a few overseas markets.

No it's not underaverage at all it's doing great and the growth is real and it isn't going to collapse like the Jan 14, 2000 DOW did.

But as usual, facts and figures are warped by the right wing spin machine to fit thier version of the world. They keep forgetting to mention that real wages are flat at best and that the middle class on average is putting themselvs more and more in debt to keep the life styles they are use to.. but hey! dont let facts get in your way!
[/quote]

Bullshit while the total average of the economic expansion following the recession has been below average of the other comprable sustained economic expansions following a recession the last three years have been great:

Addressing how the economy has performed since the recession ended and the expansion began in November 2001, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), a liberal-oriented think tank, has analyzed how several important macroeconomic variables (GDP, consumption, business investment, nonfarm employment, household net worth, wages and salaries and corporate profits) have fared during the current expansion relative to their performance in previous postwar economic recoveries. Whether measured from the March 2001 peak of the previous business cycle or from the November 2001 trough of the latest recession, the current expansion in many respects has not been as vigorous as its nine postwar predecessors, according to the CBPP analysis.

Measured throughout the 18 quarters that have followed the November 2001 trough, the real (i.e., inflation-adjusted) growth rate of GDP in the current recovery has averaged 3.1 percent per year. That compares to an annual GDP growth rate of 4.2 percent that prevailed on average during the 18 quarters that followed the beginning of each of the nine previous postwar recoveries. Worth noting is the fact that several of the nine previous expansions had reverted into another recession during the 18-quarter period following the initial trough; and the deteriorating numbers from the follow-on recessions are included in the postwar averages. (In the following data, average annual real growth rates during the previous nine postwar recoveries appear in parentheses.)

During the Bush expansion, consumption has increased by an annual average of 3.1 percent (compared to 4 percent); business investment has increased by an annual average of 3.2 percent (compared to 5.8 percent); wages and salaries have increased by 2 percent per year (compared to 3.6 percent); household net worth has increased by 3.3 percent per year (compared to 4 percent); and nonfarm employment, including the projected revision that will add 810,000 jobs to the latest total, has increased by 0.9 percent per year (compared to 2.4 percent). Only corporate profits, which have increased by 13.7 percent per year during the Bush expansion, have grown at a faster rate than the average rate (7.5 percent) for previous postwar expansions.

Let's now look at how some important economic variables have performed during only the last three years. The Dow Jones Industrial Average, which stood at 9,500 in September 2003 (after falling below 8,000 from its January 2000 level of 11,700), recently passed the 12,000 mark for the first time ever. The broader-based S&P 500-stock index has increased by more than one-third since September 2003. In both cases, very strong growth in profits underlies the rallies. During the three years that ended in June, GDP expanded at an average annual rate of 3.7 percent; and business investment increased by 6.6 percent per year. Since June 2003, nominal total household net worth increased by more than $12.5 trillion, reaching $53.3 trillion in June 2006 and reflecting an average real growth rate of 5.9 percent during the previous three years. Nonfarm employment has increased by more than 6.5 million jobs over the past three years, representing an annual growth rate of more than 1.6 percent.

Meanwhile, declining gasoline prices (the average price per gallon has fallen more than 80 cents since early August) have caused the inflation rate (CPI-W) to decelerate to 1.7 percent during the last 12 months. This decelerating inflation rate has combined with an accelerating growth rate in nominal wages to generate a 2.2 percent increase in average real wages during the last 12 months. That jump represents the biggest 12-month increase since January 2002. Moreover, as the White House Council of Economic Advisers noted, the recent 2.2 percent increase in real wages "was much faster than the 1990s (0.3 percent per year) or even during the second half of the 1990s (1.2 percent per year)."

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20061021-104523-2415r.htm

The economy is currently doing great and unlike under the Clinton administration the growth is real.
 
Only in inflation adjusted terms but that is not the standard upon which record high DOW closings are historically judged.

that still dont make it right! Its economics 101, you can not compare years "truthfully" if you dont take inflation into account. Doing anything else is dishonest and so easily manipulated for political pourpose (and I know everyone does it, still dont make it right). The same goes for comparing countries.. do it per capita and get a good comparison, do it in real dollars and get a warped version.

No it's not underaverage at all it's doing great and the growth is real and it isn't going to collapse like the Jan 14, 2000 DOW did.

It is underaverage when compared to some overseas markets. However that dont mean its not positive or good, just not as good as you could get in other areas of the world. And dont think its some warped anti american crap, as European markets are not doing that great either if you take inflation out. Is the market up from 9/11 and the problems after this..yes... is it booming? No, but its not crappy either. Some things are going good, others are not so good, and even some things are flat or negative.

The economy is currently doing great and unlike under the Clinton administration the growth is real.

Again the Clinton bashing. Right wingers just dont like knowing that thier most hated liberal did better (so far) than thier prophet sitting in the white house. If they cant beat you on the numbers without the manipulating, then they go to "real growth" angle. And if that dont, work I am guessing they will hit the critics with "are you not a patriot", "do you want Saddam back", "terrorist sympatiser" or something just as lame.

There is no dobut that the present US economy is not in a slump, but its not doing really great as the right try to paint. When an economy does not produce real wage rises compared to other years, and prices do rise no matter what, then said economy is growing based on more debt. Now much debt is held in morgatages and on credit cards so if the so called housing bubble is real and it does burst, then watch one hell of a problem arise for the average american. I hope it does not happen, because I have seen what such a similar situation can do to a country and it aint pretty.

Or is it that the right dont give a damn about average americans but only give a damn about stock holders and rich people?
 
PeteEU said:
that still dont make it right! Its economics 101, you can not compare years "truthfully" if you dont take inflation into account. Doing anything else is dishonest and so easily manipulated for political pourpose (and I know everyone does it, still dont make it right). The same goes for comparing countries.. do it per capita and get a good comparison, do it in real dollars and get a warped version.

That's fine but it's also economics 101 that the DOW growth in 2000 wasn't real growth because the stocks were overpriced and worthless because the tech companies weren't making any money which resulted in a huge stock collapse.


It is underaverage when compared to some overseas markets.

Name one? Growth in Europe is stagnant so is growth in the Pacific I believe.

However that dont mean its not positive or good, just not as good as you could get in other areas of the world. And dont think its some warped anti american crap, as European markets are not doing that great either if you take inflation out. Is the market up from 9/11 and the problems after this..yes... is it booming? No, but its not crappy either. Some things are going good, others are not so good, and even some things are flat or negative.

It's far from underaverage it's well above average.


Again the Clinton bashing. Right wingers just dont like knowing that thier most hated liberal did better (so far) than thier prophet sitting in the white house.

It's not Clinton bashing the fact of the matter is that the record DOW set in Jannuary 2000 that you are comparing the current DOW record too, was only an illussion because the stocks were overpriced and the tech companies weren't making any money which led to the stock market collapse.

There is no dobut that the present US economy is not in a slump, but its not doing really great as the right try to paint. When an economy does not produce real wage rises compared to other years,

In the last 12 months real wages have increased by 2.2% well outpacing the real wage increase average of the 90s of only .3% per year the 2.2.% increase even outpaces the 1.2% per year average of the second half of the 90s. By any measure our economy is doing great.

Now much debt is held in morgatages and on credit cards so if the so called housing bubble is real and it does burst, then watch one hell of a problem arise for the average american.

They've been predicting the housing bubble to burst for like the last three or four years, regardless I rent and don't own stock I'm a student. ;)
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
You're right the DOW adjusted for inflation still has about 2000 points to go to bipass the record set Jan. 14, 2000 but guess what? The stocks then were worthless, nobody was diversifying and everyone was buying overpriced stock in tech companies that didn't have any money to back them up but unlike that false growth in the 90s that led some to lose everything the rally isn't limited to a single sector and corporate profits are high. This time there's no bubble to pop.

There's no bubble to pop because stocks have been the shitter so long they're underpriced. Its the real estate market bubble that will pop.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
The economy is currently doing great and unlike under the Clinton administration the growth is real.

Growth under Clinton wasn't real? Just sour grapes by a Bush apologist.

To the contrary; after 8 years of solid growth the economy still has never gone down in a fiscal year. It was the greatest post war boom of all time, and it was done without increasing the deficits but eliminating them, truly a fabulous achievement.

What is unreal is the growth generated by the Bush administration, relying upon a risky borrowing scheme and government spending to prop up the economy.
 
Iriemon said:
There's no bubble to pop because stocks have been the shitter so long they're underpriced. Its the real estate market bubble that will pop.

sp500pe.gif


It was a hugh bubble of overpriced stocks
 
PeteEU said:
But dont let facts get in the way of bashing clinton or other and trying to push a "healthy economy" on the masses.

You're the one who brings up Clinton Pete...we're just happy to see our economy doing well.

Is your problem that you forgot your meds, or jealousy because the EU economy has been, is now, and will be forever in the tank?

BubbaBob
 
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