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The Democratic Party - Dead?

Dans La Lune

Do you read Sutter Cane?
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It's not just that Democrats had a bad night, but they are positioned to learn the opposite lessons from their losses. There is now talk of scaling down the reconciliation bill further, if not dismantling it completely.

Democrats get punched in the face, and their lesson seems to be to lean into the punch more next time.

Elected progressives are weak and in disarray, and without them, what exactly are the Democrats? Nothing but vehicles for corporate interests.

It's really quite remarkable, and would be funny if the alternative wasn't the Reich Wing.

I think the world just took a collective gulp. This will impact foreign policy, not just domestic issues. The only thing standing between Trumpism or worse is this sad, pathetic animal known as the Democratic party.
 
It's not the end of the Democrat party - whether we wish it so or not.
 
It's just a case of the democrat's lies catching up to them. That old thing about fooling some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Times up.
 
Napoleon said:
What happened tonight is total decimation of the progressive agenda everywhere it was put to the test of the ballot box.
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This statement is the suicide note of the Democratic party. Biden ran on an agenda and his own party sabotaged it at every turn. What do you expect the voters to do? Democrats can't learn lessons. They didn't learn them in 2010, they didn't learn them in 2016, and now they didn't learn them in 2021.

Napoleon said:
This is why you don’t let the patients run the asylum.
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Maybe they shouldn't run Clinton insiders who smell like dandruff. Maybe they shouldn't let Sinema and Manchin run the Democratic agenda while inviting the GOP into the White House to sabotage Biden's agenda.
 
The Democrats certainly tried to shoot their foot off, but I doubt the wound is fatal. Republicans can rival them in terms of self inflicted wounds.
 
No, the Democrat party isn't dead. We have a two party system composed of two pretty terrible parties, ensuring that people will get sick of one party and go for the other in an endless cycle of turd polishing.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Biden ran on an agenda and his own party sabotaged it at every turn. What do you expect the voters to do? Democrats can't learn lessons.
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Stop calling it the "party" and "Democrats". It's TWO. FRICKIN. PEOPLE. 95% of Democrats supported a very good agenda.
 
To keep score:

- Police reform - DOA
- Minimum wage - DOA
- Paid leave - DOA
- Drug price reduction - DOA
- Climate change - DOA
- Repeal of Trump tax cuts - DOA
- Tax cuts for the middle class - DOA

- Infrastructure - More privatization

Am I leaving something out? Look at that progressive agenda running wild!
 
Fishking said:
No, the Democrat party isn't dead. We have a two party system composed of two pretty terrible parties, ensuring that people will get sick of one party and go for the other in an endless cycle of turd polishing.
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Then maybe there should actually be a credible third party instead of the far right nutjob Libertarians and far left nutjob Greens.
 
Craig234 said:
Stop calling it the "party" and "Democrats". It's TWO. FRICKIN. PEOPLE. 95% of Democrats supported a very good agenda.
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Sorry, you're wrong. Biden himself destroyed his agenda about ~6 months ago by chasing after GOP votes. Dem leadership absolutely sabotaged it, Biden didn't really fight for it, and ultimately progressives had their leverage slowly drained from them. Also, there are many corporate Dems who wanted to sabotage reconciliation but let Manchin and Sinema take center stage.
 
Dans La Lune said:
To keep score:
Click to expand...

What part of "The Democrats don't have the votes" isn't clear? The problem seems to be that everyone things the Democrats have control, when they do not, because two Democrats are opposing the rest of the Democrats. That's what it all comes down to: near-total Republican obstructionism, filibuster abuse, 48 of 50 votes needed.
 

 
No, I'm not, but otherwise I largely agree with your post. The only lesson in all this is the same one we've had for many years, the only solution is to elect a progress majority. That's it.
 
Democrats and Republicans are both minority parties. Independents rule the roost, and here is a list of things many Independents are not so passionate about:
- Donald Trump and Q
- CRT and everything being a race issue
- Low taxes for billionaires
- High taxes for businesses
- Poor infrastructure
- Endless wars
- Always increasing national debt
- Porous borders
- Insufficient legal immigration and refugee programs
- Inordinate attention on abortion restrictions / abortion rights to the point of paralyzing all other legislation

Every one of these is a pet project of either the D's or the R's, and with the exception of the last point, none are a priority for both parties at once. That is why so little gets done nowadays. What's sad is how quickly it will become clear that the 21st century belongs to China because the United States is caught in a perpetual loop of 53% of the population continuously facing off against 47% of the population, leaving precious little bandwidth to actually move the needle forward in any particular area.

Meanwhile, China says 'stop wasting food or else' and boom, food waste goes down.

We're only a decade from being outclassed in every way that matters.
 
Craig234 said:
No, I'm not, but otherwise I largely agree with your post. The only lesson in all this is the same one we've had for many years, the only solution is to elect a progress majority. That's it.
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I invite you to watch that video. Progressives can't achieve any of their agenda because they bluff and place nice. Manchin starts out from a superior position because he doesn't care about being nice or helping the voters. Also, Dem leadership never lays a glove on him. He absolutely can be moved or at the very least be turned into an example. Then you start on the agenda again. And again. And again. You don't beg for scraps and and try to bluff with a pair of deuces. Manchin, Sinema, and probably now about 5-10 others moderates are going to take turns beating the BBB agenda like a piñata.

The agenda Biden campaigned on and which the American people voted for. That's why Dems are going to lose in 2022 and 2024.

The notion that progressives are helpless without more progressives is not a strategy.
 


If a political party spends a jillion dollars to get power then does nothing with it...is it really alive?
 
Dans La Lune said:
The agenda Biden campaigned on and which the American people voted for. That's why Dems are going to lose in 2022 and 2024.

The notion that progressives are helpless without more progressives is not a strategy.
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I think you overstate what the American people voted for. A great many, including myself, did not vote for Biden's agenda. We voted to kick Donald Trump out of office because he was a toddler who posed an existential treat to our nation's democratic traditions. A vote for Biden did not automatically equate to a vote for all of his spending and taxing priorities.
 

At least you are honest regarding your desire for a one party state.
 

I don't think it is as bad as you indicate. When the GOP has to open it's mouth and tell us what they believe in...you'll see some activism from the left.

What should bother democrats the most is not the losses of power center(s) but the inability of leaders to lead. Every time they put pelosi in power, the right wing does well. Is this a coincidence? Nope.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I invite you to watch that video. Progressives can't achieve any of their agenda because they bluff and place nice.
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I agree with the video, it's the best option they have, but it doesn't change the fact that the issue is *they don't have the votes*. So they do that, and Manchin says no, and it all fails, and that's that. Nothing changes that the problem is Democrats lack two votes, and people want to blame Democrats for everything two Democrats block.
Dans La Lune said:
The notion that progressives are helpless without more progressives is not a strategy.
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It's identifying the problem. What you're suggesting is like saying after the Titanic hit iceberg they needed to use better pens to draw up plans. No. The ship was sinking. We should try to salvage the situation but the only real solution is to elect more progressives.
 
Nonetheless, many Biden voters DID, and a vote for Biden meant a vote for those policies. That was the choice. The disaster of trump or the Biden agenda. There was no 'Biden but without his agenda' on the ballot.
 
Dans La Lune said:
The agenda Biden campaigned on and which the American people voted for. That's why Dems are going to lose in 2022 and 2024.
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Democrats are likely to lose because a lot of voters are idiots. When 48 Democrats support good policies that need 50 votes, those voters don't say "we need more Democrats", they say "Democrats suck let's vote for the totally corrupt party who completely oppose the agenda."
 
Craig234 said:
Nonetheless, many Biden voters DID, and a vote for Biden meant a vote for those policies. That was the choice. The disaster of trump or the Biden agenda. There was no 'Biden but without his agenda' on the ballot.
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Factually untrue. For many, including myself, the choice was the disaster of Trump or stop-the-disaster-of-Trump. I like a great many pieces of Biden's agenda but he is not an emperor nor diety and therefore I do not feel compelled, as you appear, to fully support every element of it without question. I imagine I'm not alone, and like me, I imagine others who feel the same also have let their representatives know that they expect a moderate policy position in order to win our votes in 2022. I have no issue with the House and Senate going R in 2022, because I can rest easy knowing Biden will veto any garbage a Republican Congress comes up with. If the choice is between Q and Bernie Unleashed, I'll vote for government gridlock every single time. If Progressives think their hand is so strong that over half the nation is with them, then by all means, they should play their hand and see what happens.

My guess is that their cards aren't that much stronger than what the QAnon nutters are holding. Neither appeals to the large block of us in the middle who are turned off by all the things in post #16.
 
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