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A carpenter in Chicago CURRENTLY has a market value of $28.50 per. Are you arguing that during the boom the cost was LOWER?Again, you keep saying "below market value" when that is just some idiocy you invented.
Quite a few if as you claim you paid them $10-$15. Duh.And how many of my employees made less than 50K?
A carpenter in Chicago CURRENTLY has a market value of $28.50 per. Are you arguing that during the boom the cost was LOWER?
Quite a few if as you claim you paid them $10-$15. Duh.
Again, you keep saying "below market value" when that is just some idiocy you invented.
Actually, that was for Winnebago County, Cook was twice that.that's union scale, not market value. I want skilled labor.
Fresh off the boat...and legal too!I only paid that to unskilled laborers. At most, I'd have one of them on the job and they were usually fresh off the boat and looking to learn the trade. The other four guys made a minimum of $25 an hour.
****, In 2006 I was the lowest paid guy on the crew at 40K.
The Mexicans have already wrecked their own country, now they are in the process of wrecking ours. Let them choose some other country as their pinata.Justice Scalia remarks:
I believe that he is not entirely wrong. Do you think there is a glut of us "wood welders" (carpenters) in south TX? I see DAILY the situation on residential carpentry jobs. Residential new/remodel work is booming in TX yet many entire carpentry crews getting the work are speaking ONLY spanish and working CHEAP, forcing the rest of us to sit it out or work for far less. I know you think that this is just "free market" fairness but I must, respectfully, disagree. I am now making bids at material cost x2, down from x2.5 only two years ago, just to get ANY work. Ten years ago bids of material cost x3 would get plenty of work. I just got tired of wastin my time by working up too many losing bids.
Actually, that was for Winnebago County, Cook was twice that.
Instead, you can get a job threatened by educated cheap labor allowed to legally come here from India. The bosses you worship won't keep anyone immune from this invasion except their own children. The rewards for being a flunkie of economic traitors last only long enough for them to get around to your kind too.His policy is to concentrate the limited resources available to deport criminals.
If MY job was threatened by unskilled laborers who could barely speak the language I would rethink my career choice.
Fresh off the boat...and legal too!
Again, you were not willing to pay prevailing wages for Chicago.
You wanted to pay unskilled wages for skilled workers in one of the highest COL areas in the nation.
No wonder you got out of that line.
And my point still stands. At no point in American history was that the market value for residential carpentry in Chicago.
you shure talk a big game about the LAZY americans at least they aren't law breaking scumbags.The problem with your assessment is the flawed assumption that it's just illegal immigrants that drive down the cost of labor. Legal immigrants, the people I typically hired, were twice the employee for half the cost as a natural born US citizen was.
Illegal immigrants aren't the problem (and they never have been, despite decades of whining by the anti-illegal crowd), lazy Americans are the problem. Personally I'd rather deport the no-skill-having, overpriced, arrogant Natural-born citizens that are nothing more than a victim-mentality drain in the economy than the hard working, talented, workers that just happen to be here illegally.
That's actually about what it is like here. I still do some side jobs now and again, but I don't make nearly as much as I did 5 or 6 years ago. Basically, I do them for about $10 an hour profit. As a side income, it's fine, but I wouldn't be able to live off of it.
The last year I had my company going, I was underbid on a job by so much that I couldn't have profited on it even if I had only paid my guys $7 an hour (I actually sat down and calculated how much I would have had to pay to match the price just to break even). My theory is that the guy had to be stealing some of his materials and paying jack**** to pull a profit.
That last year, I even took a few jobs where I was just breaking even in order to keep my guys working (part of the reason I made the least amount of money that year).
So I probably understand the frustration you feel better than most. I don't think that illegal immigration is the cause of this, though. I also don't believe cheap foreign labor is the cause of outsourcing, though.
Ultimately, I blame the consumer.
you shure talk a big game about the LAZY americans at least they aren't law breaking scumbags.
No, I mean they priced themselves out of the market. I ran a construction company (and I only hired legal workers, by the way). Natural-born American citizens think they are too good to work for the wages immigrants will work for. On top of that, they weren't as good of employees.
If we Americans would stand up to our conceited self-appointed Masters, we would fire them by saying that they wage-cut their way out of the market and out of their property, which we created the value of. Some people think they are too good for the low profits they'd make if anyone but themselves evaluated their contribution to the American economy.
Blame the consumer? Are you kidding me? If I, as a consumer, want a very modest deck built, I put out bids; I get 3 independent bids as follows $1,200, $1,500 and $3,000, I then check what Lowe's and Home Depot would charge they both say about $2,000 - OK which bid do I, the consumer, pick?
The same is true of "outsourcing", I can buy a Chinese made tool, say a circualr saw, for $100 or I can bu a U.S. made EQUIVALENT for $169; which saw do I, as the consumer, buy?
Sure....yeah....you are the expert (socialist!!) and these documents are LYING!!!!!I don't know what that is based on, but I am 100% certain that it is not the reality of what the market value of pay a residential carpenter could expect here in Chicago. Absolutely, positively certain. It looks more like the amount that each employee cost the employer to employ.
****, union carpenters do not make 41 an hour here. I'm not sure what you have found, but it's not a realistic picture of what people get paid to do carpentry.
If we Americans would stand up to our conceited self-appointed Masters, we would fire them by saying that they wage-cut their way out of the market and out of their property, which we created the value of. Some people think they are too good for the low profits they'd make if anyone but themselves evaluated their contribution to the American economy.
If you love foreigners so much, you should be deported. And if these people were such great workers, their own economies would be booming and they wouldn't be coming here.I said I couldn't. Past tense. When the construction industry died (along with familial issues), I closed down the company. In 2005, you couldn't find an American construction worker willing to work for $25 an hour. Today you can, because there are no jobs and people have become more humble. The problem is that equally skilled immigrants will do the same work for $10.
It's not my fault you ignored my use of the past tense. :shrug:
Sure....yeah....you are the expert (socialist!!) and these documents are LYING!!!!!
You keep saying this. I do not believe it is true. Would you point out in the law where it says the police are free to do as they want? It should be easy for you to do as you are so completely invested in the idea. Thank you in advance.I have no idea, but the police are free to do it as often as they want, for merely being suspect, not actually doing some suspicious. The stop is based on how they look.
If you love foreigners so much, you should be deported.
And if these people were such great workers, their own economies would be booming and they wouldn't be coming here.
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