The Ashtiname of Muhammad, another forgery

[Yasureoktoo]

The Ashtiname of Muhammad, also known as the Covenant or Testament (Testamentum) of Muhammad, is a document which is a charter or writ written by Ali[citation needed] and ratified by Muhammad granting protection and other privileges to the followers of Jesus the Nazarene, given to the Christian monks of Saint Catherine's Monastery. It is sealed with an imprint representing Muhammad's hand.
Āshtīnāmeh is a Persian word meaning "Book of Peace", a Persian term for a treaty and covenant.

Islam is chock full of forgeries, and phony info, but this one is more of a slap in the face.

It is a forgery by Christians to save their heads, and it works to this day.
I remember seeing a documentary on it a long time ago, where it is framed, in a glass covered case, on the wall of a church.

This letter contains the oath given unto them, and he who disobeys that which is therein will be considered a disbeliever and a transgressor to that whereunto he is commanded. He will be regarded as one who has corrupted the oath of God, disbelieved His Testament, rejected His Authority, despised His Religion, and made himself deserving of His Curse, whether he is a Sultan or any other believer of Islam.

The letter specifically gives these chosen Christians to,
not pay the Jizya
They are protected by the Muslims,
A Muslim woman can marry a Christian man,

A slew of orders that violate the written orders of Islam,
( Which is allowed if the leader grants it, and in this case granted by Muhammed himself.).

 

[TypicalRussian]

The Ashtiname of Muhammad, also known as the Covenant or Testament (Testamentum) of Muhammad, is a document which is a charter or writ written by Ali[citation needed] and ratified by Muhammad granting protection and other privileges to the followers of Jesus the Nazarene, given to the Christian monks of Saint Catherine's Monastery. It is sealed with an imprint representing Muhammad's hand.
Āshtīnāmeh is a Persian word meaning "Book of Peace", a Persian term for a treaty and covenant.

Islam is chock full of forgeries, and phony info, but this one is more of a slap in the face.

It is a forgery by Christians to save their heads, and it works to this day.
I remember seeing a documentary on it a long time ago, where it is framed, in a glass covered case, on the wall of a church.

This letter contains the oath given unto them, and he who disobeys that which is therein will be considered a disbeliever and a transgressor to that whereunto he is commanded. He will be regarded as one who has corrupted the oath of God, disbelieved His Testament, rejected His Authority, despised His Religion, and made himself deserving of His Curse, whether he is a Sultan or any other believer of Islam.

The letter specifically gives these chosen Christians to,
not pay the Jizya
They are protected by the Muslims,
A Muslim woman can marry a Christian man,

A slew of orders that violate the written orders of Islam,
( Which is allowed if the leader grants it, and in this case granted by Muhammed himself.).

evidence?

 

[Yasureoktoo]

evidence?

The info here is by Robert Spencer.
Probably the best Islamic scholar the west has to offer.

There is no mention of this document in any remotely contemporary Islamic sources. Among other anomalies, it bears a drawing of a mosque with a minaret, although minarets weren’t put on mosques until long after the time Muhammad is supposed to have lived, which is why Muslim hardliners consider them unacceptable innovation.

The document exempts the monks of St. Catherine’s monastery from paying the jizya. While it is conceivable that Muhammad, believing he bore the authority of Allah, would exempt them from an obligation specified by Allah himself in the Qur’an (9:29), the Achtiname specifies that Christians of Egypt are to pay a jizya only of twelve drachmas. Yet according to the seventh-century Coptic bishop John of Nikiou, who had firsthand knowledge of what happened when the Arabs invaded Egypt, Christians in Egypt “came to the point of offering their children in exchange for the enormous sums that they had to pay each month.”
The Achtiname, in short, bears all the earmarks of being an early medieval Christian forgery, perhaps developed by the monks themselves in order to protect the monastery and Egyptian Christians from the depredations of zealous Muslims. Modern scholars doubt its authenticity, and the prevailing opinion among Muslims is likewise dubious.

There is more

 

[Yasureoktoo]

The ancient covenant Muhammad supposedly made with Christians, known as the Achtiname, is indeed supposed to have been written by Muhammad around 628 to the monks of St. Catherine’s Monastery in the Sinai. Unfortunately, it is of even more doubtful authenticity than everything else about Muhammad’s life. Muhammad is supposed to have died in 632; the Muslims conquered Egypt between 639 and 641. The document says of the Christians, “No one shall bear arms against them.” So were the conquerors transgressing against Muhammad’s command issued just a few years before their invasion of Egypt?

 

[TypicalRussian]

The info here is by Robert Spencer.
Probably the best Islamic scholar the west has to offer.

There is no mention of this document in any remotely contemporary Islamic sources. Among other anomalies, it bears a drawing of a mosque with a minaret, although minarets weren’t put on mosques until long after the time Muhammad is supposed to have lived, which is why Muslim hardliners consider them unacceptable innovation.

The document exempts the monks of St. Catherine’s monastery from paying the jizya. While it is conceivable that Muhammad, believing he bore the authority of Allah, would exempt them from an obligation specified by Allah himself in the Qur’an (9:29), the Achtiname specifies that Christians of Egypt are to pay a jizya only of twelve drachmas. Yet according to the seventh-century Coptic bishop John of Nikiou, who had firsthand knowledge of what happened when the Arabs invaded Egypt, Christians in Egypt “came to the point of offering their children in exchange for the enormous sums that they had to pay each month.”
The Achtiname, in short, bears all the earmarks of being an early medieval Christian forgery, perhaps developed by the monks themselves in order to protect the monastery and Egyptian Christians from the depredations of zealous Muslims. Modern scholars doubt its authenticity, and the prevailing opinion among Muslims is likewise dubious.

There is more

interesting to say the least but religion is made up of tons of little stories like that, thx for the share
\
although this wouldnt debunk the abhramic religions

 

[Yasureoktoo]

interesting to say the least but religion is made up of tons of little stories like that, thx for the share
\
although this wouldnt debunk the abhramic religions

It's not meant to.

It is purely an attempt by Christians, ( That worked) to save their heads.
It would be interesting to find out exactly when it was written, however
I"m sure they would not allow it to be carbon dated.

 

[TypicalRussian]

It's not meant to.

It is purely an attempt by Christians, ( That worked) to save their heads.
It would be interesting to find out exactly when it was written, however
I"m sure they would not allow it to be carbon dated.

meant to what?

 

[Yasureoktoo]

meant to what?

I'll let you re-read that.

 

[TypicalRussian]

I'll let you re-read that.

your first and second statements are not connected

Ill let you try again

 

[CJ 2.0]

your first and second statements are not connected

Ill let you try again

It was meant to address your stream of consciousness non-sequiter about this having anything to do with debunking a group of religions. It obviously wasn’t meant for that purpose.

None of this should be as hard as it seems to be sometimes. You might want to think about why that is.

 

[TypicalRussian]

It was meant to address your stream of consciousness non-sequiter about this having anything to do with debunking a group of religions. It obviously wasn’t meant for that purpose.

None of this should be as hard as it seems to be sometimes. You might want to think about why that is.

and no evidence

 

[CJ 2.0]

and no evidence

huh??

 

[TypicalRussian]

huh??

sorry let me say it louder

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE!

 

[CJ 2.0]

sorry let me say it louder

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE!

For what?

You are making less sense than usual, I’m afraid.

 

[TypicalRussian]

For what?

You are making less sense than usual, I’m afraid.

for your posts

 

[Yasureoktoo]

For what?

You are making less sense than usual, I’m afraid.

Not enough meds, or too many.

 

[ChezC3]

The info here is by Robert Spencer.
Probably the best Islamic scholar the west has to offer.

:lamo
A self described islamophobe who founded Jihad Watch

Nothing to see here....move along...

:inandout:

 

[Yasureoktoo]

:lamo
A self described islamophobe who founded Jihad Watch

Nothing to see here....move along...

:inandout:

So your post meant absolutely nothing.
I don't care if he beats his wife, and has sex with his dog.
His comments on Islam are indisputable.

Are you a realityophobe.

 

[ecofarm]

So your post meant absolutely nothing.
I don't care if he beats his wife, and has sex with his dog.
His comments on Islam are indisputable.

Are you a realityophobe.

I can't see trusting a wife-beating dog-****er.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

I can't see trusting a wife-beating dog-****er.

As long as he does it in the privacy of his own home.

 

[ecofarm]

As long as he does it in the privacy of his own home.

Nah. I'm definitely gonna have misgivings about wife-beating and dog-****ing, no matter where it's conducted.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Something I have noticed in My studies of Islam, which consist of mostly of
Qur'an
Ishaq
Taburi
Bukhari
Muslim

Is that all western scholars ( Of which I am not) who independently study Islam, come up with the same thing.

There seems to be a pattern there.


I have also noticed all the haters don't use the material these scholars come up with, to hate on them,
No, they just call him names, and use that to justify their opinion.

 

[stevecanuck]

:lamo
A self described islamophobe who founded Jihad Watch

Nothing to see here....move along...

:inandout:

Argumentum ad hominem.

Can you dispute his points or not?

Didn't think so. You are dismissed.

 

[stevecanuck]

Mohamed barely reached the northern part of the Arabian Peninsula, and certainly didn't get anywhere near the Sinai. He may not have even heard of St. Catherine's, let alone granted them any favors. Never once does the Qur'an mention Egypt unless it's talking about Moses and Pharoah. Clearly a forgery.

Btw, I've been up mount Sanai to watch the sun rise a couple of times. It's overrated. Go after breakfast.

 

[ChezC3]

Argumentum ad hominem.

Can you dispute his points or not?

Didn't think so. You are dismissed.

It's like I got ESPn, or something....:lol:

"You are dismissed." OK, buddy.....:thumbs:

:lamo