The Anti-Mask League: lockdown protests draw parallels to 1918 pandemic (1 Viewer)

[Chomsky]

I am in the area (East Bay). I am thrilled to see how quickly people adopted and adapted.

The problem with these measures is that you always will know if you did not do enough (political risk) but you will never "really" know if you did too much (political risk).

What really helped our area was city was in lock step with the county. The county was in lock step with the state.

So when we get mixed messages from Trump.....it has little effect on the bottom line of our action.

Most of the restaurants in our area have remained open (that I can see). Many have adapted very well to take out - offering family meal deals. I love the fact that some have started offering supplies to residents as well. They come in to buy a meal and buy some eggs, flour, yeast as well.:lamo

No doubt San Fran is doing exceedingly well, as is CA in general.

When I look at the travails of the Northeast cities, I'm coming to think density is not the only thing they have in common. They all rely heavily on public transportation.

High population density and hi-rise living & working, an international presence with international airports, and reliance on well developed public transportation. I believe that's the triumvirate for the mass spread of Covid. Plus that builds high viral-loading, which looks like it may be a factor in mortality.

 

[year2late]

No doubt San Fran is doing exceedingly well, as is CA in general.

When I look at the travails of the Northeast cities, I'm coming to think density is not the only thing they have in common. They all rely heavily on public transportation.

High population density and hi-rise living & working, an international presence with international airports, and reliance on well developed public transportation. I believe that's the triumvirate for the mass spread of Covid. Plus that builds high viral-loading, which looks like it may be a factor in mortality.

The interesting thing is that it is difficult to afford to live in the communities surrounding SF (let alone SF itself) so commutes are substantial. It is faster to get on public mass transit - so it is usually heavily used. So a person communitng from Merced or Stockton area to San Francisco may commute over 3 different county transit systems. Each one pretty packed...and then transporting back to their own heavily populated community.

Our south bay area was hit the hardest....but our county only had 57 deaths. The city I live in (l0 miles away from SF) only has had 35 cases and no deaths.

As heavily as SF counties rely on public transportation....it is part executing the shut down with really good compliance (with attention paid to the homeless community) and just damned dumb luck.

But yeah, the cool thing was really.....the message we got from the mayors on all the surrounding cities was the same message we got from the governor. Even when POTUS was all over the place - we got clear direction.

 

[eman623]

The Anti-Mask League: lockdown protests draw parallels to 1918 pandemic | World news | The Guardian

California has succeeded in flattening the curve of infections, but will it learn a lesson from a similar pandemic a century ago?

San Francisco seems to have done a good job of flattening the coronavirus curve. Initially perceived as an overreaction, the shelter-in-place order issued on 16 March now seems prudent in light of the sustained public health crisis that New York has endured.

San Francisco has seen roughly 1,450 confirmed coronavirus cases and 23 deaths but the city wasn’t always so good at heeding the advice of experts.

A century ago, the influenza pandemic hit San Francisco harder than any other major US city, with 45,000 infections and 3,000 deaths. As NPR’s Tim Mak pointed out in a 19 April Twitter thread, protests in late 1918 and early 1919 helped turn a manageable public-health situation into a disaster – courtesy of a now-forgotten movement known as the Anti-Mask League.
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Yeah, let's forget those masks & open everything up so we can infect as many people as possible. That's the ticket.

SF was not saved by an early lockdown. NY locked down only 3 days after SF did. Something else is at play here.

 

[Chomsky]

The interesting thing is that it is difficult to afford to live in the communities surrounding SF (let alone SF itself) so commutes are substantial. It is faster to get on public mass transit - so it is usually heavily used. So a person communitng from Merced or Stockton area to San Francisco may commute over 3 different county transit systems. Each one pretty packed...and then transporting back to their own heavily populated community.

Our south bay area was hit the hardest....but our county only had 57 deaths. The city I live in (l0 miles away from SF) only has had 35 cases and no deaths.

As heavily as SF counties rely on public transportation....it is part executing the shut down with really good compliance (with attention paid to the homeless community) and just damned dumb luck.

But yeah, the cool thing was really.....the message we got from the mayors on all the surrounding cities was the same message we got from the governor. Even when POTUS was all over the place - we got clear direction.

Well, I suppose I now stand corrected. It's been a long time since I've visited the City by the Bay, and that was on a driving vacation. I was not aware of the state of public transportation, because it doesn't come to mind when thinking about the city. I guess I should have remembered all those Rice-A-Roni commercials of my childhood!

 

[Linc]

Did Trump make Pence the leader of the modern Anti Mask League?

Pence’s wife chose to enter politics today, lying about Pence not knowing he had to wear a mask yesterday at Mayo Clinic.

The know-nothings of the 1850’s would be proud of their white nationalist brethren of today.

 

[Jay59]

Trumpco and customers keep spreading bull****. The credulous will continue to believe them until the bitter end. Things are going to get much, much ****tier before we decide to make them get better. hold on tight

What are you basing your dire predictions upon? It isn't recent scientific research.

 

[Phys251]

We might have to start forcibly quarantining idiots. The problem is that there are so many that it might be difficult to find a venue. Maybe if we give them Trumpy Bears to hug for the two week incubation, that might pacify them enough. We could also project images of really badass guns onto a big screen and blast hell yeah music and fox. We could make it a festival environment. Wyoming is pretty much empty, so maybe have it there. Build the wall.

I like the idea of giving the covidiots a large, open compound to go to. Military guard at the border to keep them from escaping.

 

[Phys251]

No doubt San Fran is doing exceedingly well, as is CA in general.

When I look at the travails of the Northeast cities, I'm coming to think density is not the only thing they have in common. They all rely heavily on public transportation.

High population density and hi-rise living & working, an international presence with international airports, and reliance on well developed public transportation. I believe that's the triumvirate for the mass spread of Covid. Plus that builds high viral-loading, which looks like it may be a factor in mortality.

There's a joke that going around the internet that says that the coronavirus' spread depends on two things:

1. How dense people are, and
2. How dense people are.

 

[Daisy]

Just goes to show you. Stupid never learns and never dies.:mrgreen:

But the stupid ones do die...

 

[bearpoker]

If I was the guy in the recliner, I would have shoo'd him away in a NY minute!

So the secret service and everyone around him is wearing a mask and yet he doesn't twig to the fact that he should wear one too.

 

[Helix]

I like the idea of giving the covidiots a large, open compound to go to. Military guard at the border to keep them from escaping.

I was mostly joking, but they could take those agricultural and landscaping jobs they are so pissed about losing to migrants. This could work.

 

[Chomsky]

There's a joke that going around the internet that says that the coronavirus' spread depends on two things:

1. How dense people are, and
2. How dense people are.

Heavy!

 

[haymarket]

Pence’s wife chose to enter politics today, lying about Pence not knowing he had to wear a mask yesterday at Mayo Clinic.

The know-nothings of the 1850’s would be proud of their white nationalist brethren of today.

You certainly picked through the archives to come up with right party name.

 

[Linc]

You certainly picked through the archives to come up with right party name.

The part that bothers me is that the civil war came right after the know-nothings disbanded. This current crowd of tea partiers has been pining for a civil war since 1993.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

What are you basing your dire predictions upon? It isn't recent scientific research.

A drugstore Ian Malcolm wannabe thing I guess.
Idk what will happen, but it seems like large, complicated, delicate moving machinery is being run carelessly.
The situation is volatile and complicated. This makes it inherently susceptible to unintended consequences.

Politicians and political parties work more for the interests of themselves and of their donors than most of their constituents.
Politicians are playing funny with the numbers. This makes the uncertain data even more unreliable than it already is.

Garbage as input and the interests of special interests at heart leads to bad decisions.
Bad decisions when there's volatility can lead to unexpectedly large unintended consequences.

Tens of millions of people are without work.
Govts have had trouble keeping up with the demands on the unemployment insurance.
Food banks are already stretched past capacity in places because the demand has increased so much so suddenly.

Idk how all that energy will express itself
But people absolutely will do *something* to keep their family afloat

Even if millions jobs opened up in the morning tomorrow,
it'd be weeks before people start cashing paychecks

It only takes a few examples where people screw up the re-opening to **** things up for a lot of people.
A few people fibbing their way through pre-work screenings at a public place, a few govt skimping on tracing personnel, or w/e else I don't even know about that can go wrong.

Probably my impression is just made up never-trumper fake news you can safely ignore.
Maybe whatever Trumpco is saying will happen is what will happen.
Maybe the country will be fully open in June and really rolling by July just like they say.

In some sense,
Trumpco has really nailed all of their pandemic predictions so far.

 

[haymarket]

The part that bothers me is that the civil war came right after the know-nothings disbanded. This current crowd of tea partiers has been pining for a civil war since 1993.

Let us all hope that never happens again. The suffering and death would be terrible to behold.

 

[Jay59]

A drugstore Ian Malcolm wannabe thing I guess. Idk what will happen, but it seems like large, complicated, delicate moving machinery is being run carelessly. The situation is volatile and complicated. This makes it inherently susceptible to unintended consequences. Politicians and political parties work more for the interests of themselves and of their donors than most of their constituents. Politicians are playing funny with the numbers. This makes the uncertain data even more unreliable than it already is.

Garbage as input and the interests of special interests at heart leads to bad decisions. Bad decisions when there's volatility can lead to unexpectedly large unintended consequences. Tens of millions of people are without work. Govts have had trouble keeping up with the demands on the unemployment insurance. Food banks are already stretched past capacity in places because the demand has increased so much so suddenly. Idk how all that energy will express itself But people absolutely will do *something* to keep their family afloat Even if millions jobs opened up in the morning tomorrow, it'd be weeks before people start cashing paychecks

It only takes a few examples where people screw up the re-opening to **** things up for a lot of people. A few people fibbing their way through pre-work screenings at a public place, a few govt skimping on tracing personnel, or w/e else I don't even know about that can go wrong. Probably my impression is just made up never-trumper fake news you can safely ignore. Maybe whatever Trumpco is saying will happen is what will happen. Maybe the country will be fully open in June and really rolling by July just like they say. In some sense, Trumpco has really nailed all of their pandemic predictions so far.

I see. It was a subject matter difference. I took that as a comment on COVID-19 as things start opening up.

With regard to the economy, I am glad you have the sense to see that the Trump administration has a sterling record for encouraging growth. Still, the difficulties are daunting, because it is a global economic problem. Exports have been a big part of our economy and they will suffer. Several major sectors of the economy have taken big hits, entertainment, airlines, car rentals, energy, fitness, etc. That said, it is not as bleak as some of the numbers indicate because the situation is imposed by an outside force and not the fundamentals of the economy. A lot of jobs are not gone, just on furlough. CARE provided a bridge and CARE2 will keep a lot of paychecks coming for people who would otherwise be laid off. As you point out, we have some competent people in charge.

As you say, it's going to hurt. But, the light isn't another train. We can dimly see the end of this.

 

[Linc]

Let us all hope that never happens again. The suffering and death would be terrible to behold.

I'm tossing around this link from Australia right now since I'm on computer:
Chinese ‘batwoman'’ scientist chilling prediction | Daily Examiner
This is just the beginning of this new generation of infected viruses.
I don't know how to do these links on my iphone.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I see. It was a subject matter difference. I took that as a comment on COVID-19 as things start opening up.
With regard to the economy, I am glad you have the sense to see that the Trump administration has a sterling record for encouraging growth.

I said that the Trump Admin has a sterling record of pandemic predictions this year.

CARE provided a bridge and CARE2 will keep a lot of paychecks coming for people who would otherwise be laid off.

When is CARE2?
After the Congress gets enough tests to hold sessions they will debate about it?
And after they debate about it for a bit, they'll probably pass something.
And then after it's passed, how long until people get their money?
Weeks like this last time?

I don't think these things are actually filling the gaps for Americans.

As you point out, we have some competent people in charge.

I said
Trumpco has really nailed all of their pandemic predictions so far.
So why wouldn't we trust them to continue to help us anticipate what coming?

We went from 15 cases down to zero
Covid disappeared in April like a miracle

We will be up and running in June and really rocking by July.
Trumpco says so

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I'm tossing around this link from Australia right now since I'm on computer:
Chinese ‘batwoman'’ scientist chilling prediction | Daily Examiner
This is just the beginning of this new generation of infected viruses.
I don't know how to do these links on my iphone.

We will have more pandemics more often as time goes by
So get the hang of it now, y'all

This is the tutorial mode

 

[yankintx]

He is certainly not leading by example. Neither is President Lysol.

With Righties its always do as I say, not as I do. Look who the Evangelicals voted for, low leadership standards are the norm for Republicans.

 

[Jay59]

I said that the Trump Admin has a sterling record of pandemic predictions this year.

True statement.

When is CARE2? After the Congress gets enough tests to hold sessions they will debate about it? And after they debate about it for a bit, they'll probably pass something. And then after it's passed, how long until people get their money? Weeks like this last time? I don't think these things are actually filling the gaps for Americans.

Already done, signed into law and funding became available last Monday. It debated mostly as more money for the Payroll Protection Plan, but the act does not have a popular name.

I said Trumpco has really nailed all of their pandemic predictions so far. So why wouldn't we trust them to continue to help us anticipate what coming?

You seem to be claiming irony. That doesn't work if there is too much truth in the statement.

We went from 15 cases down to zero Covid disappeared in April like a miracle

This isn't good irony for different reasons.

We will be up and running in June and really rocking by July. Trumpco says so

Again, too close to the truth for good irony.

Humor failures aside, the Trump administration does have a very good record with the economy and the shutdown is ending, almost by force. It was always clear that people would resist shelter in place. In my own state it expired at midnight last night. The whole week prior, traffic increased. There is clearly an energy that is bursting out. How that energy manifests in the economy remains to be seen, but it is clear that it is not going to be a normal recession.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

True statement.
Already done, signed into law and funding became available last Monday. It debated mostly as more money for the Payroll Protection Plan, but the act does not have a popular name.
You seem to be claiming irony. That doesn't work if there is too much truth in the statement.
This isn't good irony for different reasons.
Again, too close to the truth for good irony.
Humor failures aside, the Trump administration does have a very good record with the economy and the shutdown is ending, almost by force. It was always clear that people would resist shelter in place. In my own state it expired at midnight last night. The whole week prior, traffic increased. There is clearly an energy that is bursting out. How that energy manifests in the economy remains to be seen, but it is clear that it is not going to be a normal recession.

I am forced to concede all of your points about irony
Your post demonstrates that you are a true master of irony.

 

[Jay59]

I am forced to concede all of your points about irony
Your post demonstrates that you are a true master of irony.

Much better. I see you have been working on it.

Irony has never been one of my strengths. I know the theory, but the practice is elusive.

For example, you see irony in the post, when there isn't any. I don't get that. Trump and his administration really is very good at economics, so there is no irony there.