The Amsterdam Hooligans: Israel In a Nutshell

[german hick]

The Quran teaches hatred of Jews. It's in Islam's DNA.

In fact all Abraham religions do that. It´s written in the bible and Torah, too. Exclusive heavens suck in my world view, not matter who of that three decide how they look like and wich imaginary friend tells you that you are special.

 

[Juks]

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The fact is that it was after the Europa League football match between the Dutch team Ajax and the Israeli club Maccabi Tel Aviv that chaos erupted on the streets of Amsterdam. In several areas, Israeli supporters were chased and attacked by individuals shouting pro-Palestinian slogans, according to reports in Israeli media. At least ten Israelis were injured, and several had to be taken to the hospital, reports Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

It is also a fact that: The day before the match, video clips on social media show Israeli football fans on the streets shouting hateful slogans against Arabs and Palestinians and tearing down Palestinian flags that had been put up. "Hope the IDF (Israel Defense Forces) wins and damn the Arabs" can be heard shouted by Maccabi supporters in one of the clips. According to Amsterdam's Police Chief Peter Holla, Maccabi supporters also attacked a taxi and set fire to a Palestinian flag.

That said: Political violence is never acceptable, not even in response to provocation, but perhaps we can still agree that there was provocation? That being said, when violence is carried out in this way, it’s almost guaranteed that those responsible for the provocation are not the ones who bear the consequences of it. They were probably sitting at home or already on a plane back to Israel. Maybe they weren’t even Israeli but Russian provocateurs, who knows? maybe they, the very next day, where chasing Israeli football supporters down the street shouting pro-Palestinian slogans...It certainly seemed to be neatly set up for just that to happen...

 

[stevecanuck]

In fact all Abraham religions do that. It´s written in the bible and Torah, too. Exclusive heavens suck in my world view, not matter who of that three decide how they look like and wich imaginary friend tells you that you are special.

I'm on solid ground saying that hatred of Jews is in Islam's DNA, and I'll provide quotes if needed, but I'm not familiar enough with the bible to say the same about it. Do you have examples for me? Thanks.

 

[Chagos]

I honestly think we're at one of those pivot points to which future historians will dedicate copious books. Reminiscent of 1930's Germany, Jews are once again in the cross-hairs, and not - as you pointed out - because of whether they're Israeli or sympathizers thereof, but simply because they are Jews.

And the Woke West is almost entirely to blame for the enabling, and even encouragement that they provide. When blond, blue-eyed co-eds join pro-Palestinian (actually pro-Hamas) protests, they don't seem to realize that a sizeable portion of Muslims in those protests are not merely calling for a Palestinian homeland, but they're celebrating a massacre, and openly calling for more.

The Leftish students, certainly in the post war Germany that I've had the opportunity to know quite well, have certainly (and practically always) adjusted their position of being on the side of the real or assumed underdog, to levels of insanity usually devoid of critical thinking.

It's the usual black or white definition shared with the radical right and both are too dumb to see that or, better said, totally unwilling to even try.

As such walking shoulder to shoulder with neo-Nazis and Palestinian Hamas fans in support of destroying Israel is a truly mind-boggling side, or would be to me, were I not so unshaken in my belief in human stupidity.

But, it gets so much worse. What they REALLY don't seem to get is that if they were at that music festival, they too would have been raped/murdered/kidnapped, AND that many of the people they're marching with would be perfectly fine with that. How they don't see that just boggles my poor old mind.

Yeah, same here.

This has never been about Palestinians killing Israelis. It's been about Muslims killing Jews, and has been since 1921, when Jewish immigrants started coming under attack for no other reason than that they were there. The Quran teaches hatred of Jews. It's in Islam's DNA.

I live in a country where historically tolerance of Muslim rule for religious minorities (principally Jews and Christians) had been part of the Moorish regime from the first days of invasion, jizya taxation notwithstanding. Persecutions of specifically Jews beginning with the (Christian) reconquista.
As to anybody's holy books, the specific example of the Islamic one provides a hodge podge of opportunities for its adherents to pick whatever they want from it, including the opposite teaching of religious intolerance being worthy of condemnation.

Most of the Jew-hating self-declared Islamic assholes in Europe don't even know the Quran in its entirety, let alone possess the intellectual capacity to read it in full, not to mention reflecting upon its content in the sense that I've had the privilege of seeing true Islamic scholars do.

 

[Chagos]

I'm on solid ground saying that hatred of Jews is in Islam's DNA, and I'll provide quotes if needed, but I'm not familiar enough with the bible to say the same about it. Do you have examples for me? Thanks.

I'd be equally on solid grounds if I could be bothered to quote (definitely existing) passages from the Quran that forbid religious persecution of other people of the book, yet "bothered" is the operative word here.

Which I simply can't be, cuz I place little to no importance on what books tell me to do.

Okay, Kant would be one of the few exception.

 

[oneworld2]

I honestly think we're at one of those pivot points to which future historians will dedicate copious books. Reminiscent of 1930's Germany, Jews are once again in the cross-hairs, and not - as you pointed out - because of whether they're Israeli or sympathizers thereof, but simply because they are Jews.

And the Woke West is almost entirely to blame for the enabling, and even encouragement that they provide. When blond, blue-eyed co-eds join pro-Palestinian (actually pro-Hamas) protests, they don't seem to realize that a sizeable portion of Muslims in those protests are not merely calling for a Palestinian homeland, but they're celebrating a massacre, and openly calling for more.

But, it gets so much worse. What they REALLY don't seem to get is that if they were at that music festival, they too would have been raped/murdered/kidnapped, AND that many of the people they're marching with would be perfectly fine with that. How they don't see that just boggles my poor old mind.

This has never been about Palestinians killing Israelis. It's been about Muslims killing Jews, and has been since 1921, when Jewish immigrants started coming under attack for no other reason than that they were there. The Quran teaches hatred of Jews. It's in Islam's DNA.

The Jew card/antisemitism card has been being played for decades in an attempt to stifle legitimate criticisms of the Israeli state.

Every time they misuse it they devalue it and that's the real tragedy.

Every time they claim a " pogrom" or " krystallnacht". or " the new antisemitism" to describe a football hooligan riot or opposition to Israeli crimes, they are actually shitting all over the real suffering of Jewish people whose suffering they are exploiting to serve as a gag to stop criticism of the Israeli led abuses of other people.

But let's be clear here, since 9/11 the Muslims became the new 1930s German Jew and that makes your commentary above of only ironic/comedic relevance imo

I go on those marches, I know what the people who march are made up of and you are wrong about it.

Many of them are Jewish themselves and are disgusted by the actions/policies of the Israeli state, that the state claims in the name of the Jewish people whether they agree with it or not.

Am I going to say that there are no actual antisemites in their midst? no because it just isn't realistic to claim as much, in the same way those on the " Israeli side" will harbour Islamophobes /anti Muslim bigots ( oh the irony of your commentary). It just goes with the territory/reality but to tag everyone as you do, is just more of your ignorant bigoted tripe.

If you were around in the 1930s Germany my bet is that you would have delved into Jewish history and would be making the case that what was happening to them is justified.

Authentic antisemitism is just the other arse cheek to Islamophobia, you just haven't realized your own position properly imo

 

[oneworld2]

Whole thing appears to have been ignited by Maccabi football hooligans not having found an Ajax flag to burn and, politically and ideologically expedient,

Self deceptive bs

The Maccabi fans were not interested in attacking Ajax fans or flags, you are peddling shite and I strongly suspect you know it. They attacked people who support Palestine, they attacked taxi drivers because they are or look like Arabs

having taken a Palestinian flag and burning it in the central Dam Square, to then (whether the same hools or others) vandalize a taxi.

Many of the cabbies are Arabs/immigrants, you missed the Israeli supremacism that was at play

Then, with many of them chanting anti-Arab slogans while marching to the stadium,

Note, not anti Ajax slogans? Which also undermines your apologetics for the actions of Jewi9sh supremacist in the form of Israeli football thugs

They cheered for genocide, they cheered on the genocide of kids in Gaza.

You did the same sleight of hand the media did and for the same reason

Incitement to genocide is a CRIME in Holland and many other places and is not so easily dismissed as the PR friendly " anti Arab slogans"

the ground work for following attacks on Maccabi fans was laid, with "groups" on scooters proceeding to attack the Israelis after the match.

They attacked the Maccabi fans which descended at times to attacking Israelis and ultimately in some cases Jews in authentic antisemitic acts

Putting the blame singularly on one of either side is stupid.

You put the blame on those who started it, first and foremost BUT because they were Israelis everyone shit themselves because they know how the Israelis/Israeli state hides its ugliness behind the skirt of Judaism and Jewish suffering.

The fact that nowhere in your commentary is any mention of the jaw dropping gaslighting in the western MSM that served to disinform its audiences is in keeping with your own positions imo western indoctrinated/western centric gibberish

 

[oneworld2]

Just to add wrt what I've bolded

You bolded a straw man and then continued to thrash the daylights out of it.

The poster who introduced it has bravely stayed away since playing it which is yet another shock.

I expect you piggy back such dishonest tactics, it's what your posts tend to do

The good thing about the Israel/Palestine situation over the past 13 months, the only good thing, is that at least we know who supports genocide or denies it in order to protect it in the West ( and in this forum) and the MSM shot itself in both feet over this.

 

[oneworld2]

More common sense commentary about the ridiculous weaponization of antisemitsm in the aftermath of events in Amsterdam.

 

[stevecanuck]

I live in a country where historically tolerance of Muslim rule for religious minorities (principally Jews and Christians) had been part of the Moorish regime from the first days of invasion, jizya taxation notwithstanding.

Yes. The whole point of jizya is to buy tolerance and protection in exchange for recognizing the superiority of Muslims.

Persecutions of specifically Jews beginning with the (Christian) reconquista.

Yup.

As to anybody's holy books, the specific example of the Islamic one provides a hodge podge of opportunities for its adherents to pick whatever they want from it, including the opposite teaching of religious intolerance being worthy of condemnation.

In my reading of the Quran over the last 20+ years, I don't see that it "provides a hodge podge of opportunities for its adherents to pick whatever they want from it." The overall message of enforced Islamosupremacy and hatred for the 'other' is very, very, very clear.

Most of the Jew-hating self-declared Islamic assholes in Europe don't even know the Quran in its entirety, let alone possess the intellectual capacity to read it in full, not to mention reflecting upon its content in the sense that I've had the privilege of seeing true Islamic scholars do.

I'm sure they've all had the Cliff's Notes version, but then it's so repetitive that reading all of it would be redundant. (I've often wondered how many verses the Quran would contain if all repetitions were eliminated. It would probably go from 6,236 verses down to no more than 500.)

 

[stevecanuck]

I'd be equally on solid grounds if I could be bothered to quote (definitely existing) passages from the Quran that forbid religious persecution of other people of the book,

And this is where we disagree.

It takes a few laps around the Quran to truly get used to the language and style to the point of understanding it's message about the "people of the book (Jews and Christians)". I'm happy to talk specifics if you're interested, but for now I'll just say that in order to be considered believers, thereby qualifying for admission to heaven, they must not only believe in "that which came before (the bible)", BUT ALSO in "that which I reveal (the Quran)".

In other words, Jews and Christians who don't accept the Quran as the last installment in Allah's trilogy are still considered to be infidels. Again, I could go into this in great detail.

 

[stevecanuck]

I go on those marches, I know what the people who march are made up of and you are wrong about it.

I went to one in Sydney earlier this year, and when the screeching Muslima with the megaphone called Oct 7 "legitimate", she was rewarded with a loud cheer.

Those people were celebrating a massacre. There was absolutely no doubt about it.

 

[stevecanuck]

Authentic antisemitism is just the other arse cheek to Islamophobia, you just haven't realized your own position properly imo

What utter BS.

Antisemitism is codified in the Quran. "Islamophobia" is a made up non-word meant to keep people from telling the simple truth about what the Quran says.

 

[german hick]

And this is where we disagree.

It takes a few laps around the Quran to truly get used to the language and style to the point of understanding it's message about the "people of the book (Jews and Christians)". I'm happy to talk specifics if you're interested, but for now I'll just say that in order to be considered believers, thereby qualifying for admission to heaven, they must not only believe in "that which came before (the bible)", BUT ALSO in "that which I reveal (the Quran)".

In other words, Jews and Christians who don't accept the Quran as the last installment in Allah's trilogy are still considered to be infidels. Again, I could go into this in great detail.

Yeah. And the Christians sent the crusades (much worse than any killing in religious believes before and after).
In Judaism, it´s about the genes - if you don´t have (motherly) ancestors of jewish faith, you are doomed to hell. Period. No chance to convert to the "true faith" - and most defenders of the israeli landgrab at one point in diskussion say that´s their right to do, because god gave them these land 3000 years before...
I go with Marx in that matter although I´m no communist: "Religion ist Opium fürs Volk"

 

[stevecanuck]

Yeah. And the Christians sent the crusades (much worse than any killing in religious believes before and after).
In Judaism, it´s about the genes - if you don´t have (motherly) ancestors of jewish faith, you are doomed to hell. Period. No chance to convert to the "true faith" - and most defenders of the israeli landgrab at one point in diskussion say that´s their right to do, because god gave them these land 3000 years before...
I go with Marx in that matter although I´m no communist: "Religion ist Opium fürs Volk"

All of that has nothing to do with the conversation you butted into.

 

[german hick]

All of that has nothing to do with the conversation you butted into.

I butted offtopic into your fine conversation?!?
Okay than go talk to yourself again - don´t wanna be intrusive. Have a nice day.

 

[stevecanuck]

I butted offtopic into your fine conversation?!?
Okay than go talk to yourself again - don´t wanna be intrusive. Have a nice day.

I’ll talk all you want to, but not unless you stay on topic. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Chagos]

And this is where we disagree.

It takes a few laps around the Quran to truly get used to the language and style to the point of understanding it's message about the "people of the book (Jews and Christians)". I'm happy to talk specifics if you're interested, but for now I'll just say that in order to be considered believers, thereby qualifying for admission to heaven, they must not only believe in "that which came before (the bible)", BUT ALSO in "that which I reveal (the Quran)".

In other words, Jews and Christians who don't accept the Quran as the last installment in Allah's trilogy are still considered to be infidels. Again, I could go into this in great detail.

Again (me) being bothered is the operative issue.

 

[Chagos]

I went to one in Sydney earlier this year, and when the screeching Muslima with the megaphone called Oct 7 "legitimate", she was rewarded with a loud cheer.

Those people were celebrating a massacre. There was absolutely no doubt about it.

I've been to none of those but various comments that I've seen and heard elsewhere, where the massacre of the rock festival participants was completely denied, will do me just fine in determining that ideological fanaticism requires mental institutionalisation.

Including, as seen from some on here, the argument that all Israelis are IDF members anyway, and thus legitimate targets. That latter case on account of military service being compulsory in Israel for both women and men and thus EVERYone in Israel is part of even the IDF reserve.

Babies found little mention, but seeing how they are potential future IDF members, the argument of "nits turn into lice" simply, it would appear, wasn't thought of in time.

Incidentally accounts of the Bucha massacre in Ukraine were met with skepticism by some of the very same posters here.

Again, I've stopped bothering with these people altogether.

 

[Chagos]

~............................In my reading of the Quran over the last 20+ years, I don't see that it "provides a hodge podge of opportunities for its adherents to pick whatever they want from it." The overall message of enforced Islamosupremacy and hatred for the 'other' is very, very, very clear................~

Just to address this, makes one wonder why a holy book so assumedly providing "cut'n dried" for everything, requires such countless "accompanying" hadiths.

More so how such hadiths are even allowed by the religion.

Let alone how respected institutions of Islamic scholarship are even necessary for interpreting and thus guiding the confused, let alone even permitted to do so when one just need read the book.

I retain my position that after reading the whole thing one can only come to the conclusion of "nice try".

 

[Chagos]

I butted offtopic into your fine conversation?!?
Okay than go talk to yourself again - don´t wanna be intrusive. Have a nice day.

There ain't no off topic limitations when discussing ANY religion.

 

[Chagos]

Yeah. And the Christians sent the crusades (much worse than any killing in religious believes before and after).
In Judaism, it´s about the genes - if you don´t have (motherly) ancestors of jewish faith, you are doomed to hell. Period. No chance to convert to the "true faith" - and most defenders of the israeli landgrab at one point in diskussion say that´s their right to do, because god gave them these land 3000 years before...
I go with Marx in that matter although I´m no communist: "Religion ist Opium fürs Volk"

That (bolded by me) is not quite true.

Conversion to Judaism for the goyim is possible but they make it as difficult as one can imagine.

And how dare you contest that the US (certainly in perception of many of its citizens) is God's Own Country?

 

[oneworld2]

I went to one in Sydney earlier this year, and when the screeching Muslima with the megaphone called Oct 7 "legitimate", she was rewarded with a loud cheer.

Those people were celebrating a massacre. There was absolutely no doubt about it.

You've been on one, allegedly, I have been on around two dozen, I've been on an Xmas vigil for the victims of Gaza and taken protest actions against individual business and organizations on a few occasions and I know you are lying about the movement.

Occupied people have a legitimate right to use armed resistance against illegal occupiers. Everybody accepts this when it is not related to the Palestinian case, why? because they hold bigoted views.

The truth about 7th October will never come out because the Israeli side has blocked any investigation and buried much of the evidence ( literally), either their own or an independent one. Why? So people like you can use it for propaganda purposes as a justification for the massively more horrific Israeli crimes against Palestinians and others.

 

[oneworld2]

What utter BS.

Antisemitism is codified in the Quran. "Islamophobia" is a made up non-word meant to keep people from telling the simple truth about what the Quran says.

Nope, it is a extremely useful word to describe people with hateful agendas like you have. They hate an entire group of people because of their religious denomination, just like antisemitism is used to describe anti Jewish sentiment and is equally as important.

Since 9/11, no doubt when you first looked at the Quran with a view to endorsing your hatred of Muslims after the events of 9/11 Muslims in many places have been subject to the same racist/bigoted hostility Jews have been throughout history. It was always there to begin with but it went on steroids after 9/11.

You can see this in full swing by witnessing how many of the far right groups carry Israeli flags, are set up by Israeli agitators etc etc. We even saw Geert Wilders speaking in defence of racist Israeli thugs and piggy backing events to push an agenda to deport Arabs living in Holland

The whole irony of people like yourself is that you hold positions that are identical to the Nazis who persecuted and ended up committing genocide against European Jews in the 1930-40s, you have just swapped " Jew" for " Muslim"

 

[oneworld2]

I've been to none of those but various comments that I've seen and heard elsewhere,

Exactly, you've been to none so you are basing your opinion on hearsay and propaganda, what a shocker lol

where the massacre of the rock festival participants was completely denied, will do me just fine in determining that ideological fanaticism requires mental institutionalisation.

Is it being " denied" or is it being contested in the light of the evidence that the IDF itself murdered many of those concert goers in a mass Hannibal Directive?

You see, you really have no clue becuase what you accuse others of is actually that which applies to yourself.

Including, as seen from some on here, the argument that all Israelis are IDF members anyway, and thus legitimate targets. That latter case on account of military service being compulsory in Israel for both women and men and thus EVERYone in Israel is part of even the IDF reserve.

IDF members ARE legitimate targets. I understand that you would deny that there's been an illegal occupation of the Palestinians by Israel for at least 57 years but others choose to be a lot more objective about this conflict

Babies found little mention, but seeing how they are potential future IDF members, the argument of "nits turn into lice" simply, it would appear, wasn't thought of in time.

Babies were at the forefront of the debate, what one earth are you talking about?

Recall the Israeli side lied that they found 40 beheaded babies, babies strung up on washing lines, babies in the oven, babies cut from the womb of Israeli women etc etc all lies that you appear to have nothing to say about, is that because the lies came from the Israeli side?

Your commentary is, as ever, ignorant tripe.

Incidentally accounts of the Bucha massacre in Ukraine were met with skepticism by some of the very same posters here.

The two situations were vastly different and skepticism is wise considering the raft of lies that came out from the Israeli side about the events of 7th October.

Again, I've stopped bothering with these people altogether.

Yeah, because they have your number and expose your rubbish, you just don't want to admit it.