The 1619 Project

[craig]

Considering that people were taught for generations that the Civil War wasn't about slavery and Reconstruction was a mistake, revising history isn't neccesarily a bad thing.

That's not true I went to school back then and we learned practical knowledge and skills. We might have spent an hour on the civil war but I doubt it.

 

[Rawley]

I am well versed in Marx because of my formal study of political philosophy as a minor. What is your problem with the ideas of Karl Marx?

Systemic racism created Marx's classes. Class struggle. Rich white folk keeping the black man down. This really doesn't ring any bells?

 

[Lisa]

Systemic racism created Marx's classes. Class struggle. Rich white folk keeping the black man down. This really doesn't ring any bells?

Are you blaming Marx for the racism that had been happening for more than 4 millennia before he ever took a breath? or wasn't he supposed to notice? More inequity is based on economics than race. It just happens that white people tend to have more wealth than other races.

 

[Rawley]

Are you blaming Marx for the racism that had been happening for more than 4 millennia before he ever took a breath? or wasn't he supposed to notice? More inequity is based on economics than race. It just happens that white people tend to have more wealth than other races.

??? No.

The point Fishking was making was that critical race theory evolved from Marx's class struggle theory.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1124&context=mjrl

 

[Antiwar]

Neo Marxist, critical race theory propaganda meant to indoctrinate. The successfully indoctrinated are not aware.

How did you come to these labels/conclusions?

 

[dixon01767]

There is literally nothing there that is defending racism. Condemning Marxist ideology isn't defending racism. Your response is a red herring and a pre-programmed response from CRT NPCs that simply cannot actually support their positions using actual reasoning and solid premises.

Yeah, this silliness that one who is not "anti racist" is by definition a racist. Or "silence is violence". It really is absurd.

 

[dixon01767]

How did you come to these labels/conclusions?

Knowledge of the writings of Marx and others known as Marxism. Its evolution into neo marxism and the writings of Marcuse, Fromn, Adorno, Gramsci, Foucault and others that spawned ALL of Critical Theory. I attended law school 89-90 and witness critical legal theory morph into critical race theory.

 

[Antiwar]

Knowledge of the writings of Marx and others known as Marxism. Its evolution into neo marxism and the writings of Marcuse, Fromn, Adorno, Gramsci, Foucault and others that spawned ALL of Critical Theory. I attended law school 89-90 and witness critical legal theory morph into critical race theory.

Make your case for your conclusions.

 

[Antiwar]

Yeah, this silliness that one who is not "anti racist" is by definition a racist. Or "silence is violence". It really is absurd.

I've heard it said that not being racist isn't enough. I've never heard that not being anti-racist is racist.

 

[dixon01767]

Make your case for your conclusions.

What do you dispute? The connection between Marxism and neo marxism,? Neo marxisms claim to all of critical theory? 1619 project as an example of Critical Race Theory? Its not really disputed.

Neo-Marxism - Wikipedia
Many prominent neo-Marxists, such as Herbert Marcuse and other members of the Frankfurt School, have historically been sociologists and psychologists.....
Max Weber's....


Critical theory - Wikipedia
Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Walter Benjamin, Erich Fromm, and Max Horkheimer.
Max Weber.
In sociology and political philosophy, "Critical Theory" means the Western-Marxist philosophy of the Frankfurt School, developed in Germany in the 1930s and drawing on the ideas of Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud.....
György Lukács and Antonio Gramsci,....
. Michel Foucault

 

[Antiwar]

What do you dispute? The connection between Marxism and neo marxism,? Neo marxisms claim to all of critical theory? 1619 project as an example of Critical Race Theory? Its not really disputed.

Neo-Marxism - Wikipedia
Many prominent neo-Marxists, such as Herbert Marcuse and other members of the Frankfurt School, have historically been sociologists and psychologists.....
Max Weber's....


Critical theory - Wikipedia
Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Walter Benjamin, Erich Fromm, and Max Horkheimer.
Max Weber.
In sociology and political philosophy, "Critical Theory" means the Western-Marxist philosophy of the Frankfurt School, developed in Germany in the 1930s and drawing on the ideas of Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud.....
György Lukács and Antonio Gramsci,....
. Michel Foucault

I'm requesting that you address #255. You seem to think that there's something wrong with Marxism, neo-Marxism, critical theory, and critical race theory. This is in addition to complaints about the supposed historical inaccuracies of The 1619 Project, one of the reporters supposedly saying it's not history it's a narrative, you said indoctrination, and I believe it was you that said something about an agenda. None of that seems to really say what your concerns are. What are your concerns? What do you think has happened or is going to happen because of The 1619 Project?

I'm going to believe Chomsky's assessment at face value because I find him to be a very credible source. I listened to an interview with one of the reporters. She didn't say anything that I noticed which should make people concerned. If you just want to post that you don't like something, put labels on it and such, okay. But that's not a convincing argument.

 

[Court Jester]

Here is what I would teach kids in school:

The people who build ships and have gunpowder first usually win. Nuff said.

Who wants to hear the history of basket weavers, when they can learn about the men who built steel buildings, dams, railroads, and rockets?

 

[Antiwar]

@dixon01767

Nevermind on #261.

 

[Fishking]

Yeah, this silliness that one who is not "anti racist" is by definition a racist. Or "silence is violence". It really is absurd.

And they make up their own meanings to those terms. Most people are "anti racist". They just have taken that term to mean that if you aren't out there assaulting people or participating in violent protests then you're complicit. Or if you don't fall for every made up controversy then you're complicit.

 

[dixon01767]

I'm requesting that you address #255. You seem to think that there's something wrong with Marxism, neo-Marxism, critical theory, and critical race theory.

Actually you were disputing the labels

This is in addition to complaints about the supposed historical inaccuracies of The 1619 Project, one of the reporters supposedly saying it's not history it's a narrative, ..........

Actually that was Hannah Jones, the architect and author of the 1619 project who said it wasnt history and its bad to teach impressionable children propaganda as if it was actual history.

 

[eohrnberger]

And they make up their own meanings to those terms. Most people are "anti racist". They just have taken that term to mean that if you aren't out there assaulting people or participating in violent protests then you're complicit. Or if you don't fall for every made up controversy then you're complicit.

"if you don't fall for every made up controversy then you're complicit"

If you criticize their ideology then you're then you are accused of being complicit.
If you critical of their public policy proposals then you are accused of being complicit.
If you don't support or believe in their ideology then you are accused of being complicit.

Let's face it, if you don't toe their ideological line and the things they want 100% of the time, then you are accused of being complicit.

 

[dixon01767]

"if you don't fall for every made up controversy then you're complicit"

If you criticize their ideology then you're then you are accused of being complicit.
If you critical of their public policy proposals then you are accused of being complicit.
If you don't support or believe in their ideology then you are accused of being complicit.

Let's face it, if you don't toe their ideological line and the things they want 100% of the time, then you are accused of being complicit.

A complicit racist. They attack the messenger because they cant attack the message.

 

[dixon01767]

Geez, our infection in the United States is spreading.

Oxford University may stop teaching sheet music because of its 'complicity in white supremacy'
Sheet music is now considered "too colonial," while Beethoven and Mozart, and music curriculums in general, are believed to have "complicity in white supremacy."
Oxford University may stop teaching sheet music because of its 'complicity in white supremacy' | The Post Millennial

No doubt, too many of their black students that make up a whole 3% of the student population couldnt read sheet music, so they concluded it must be racist.

Much like here in the US. Symphonies in all the major cities were all white men, so they implemented blind auditions. Quickly the underrepresentation of women was soon corrected and the underrepresentation of blacks stayed the same. So now they are calling to do away with blind auditions. They need to see the candidates color to know who to discriminate against and who to discriminate in favor of. Treating all races the same disproportionately effects black people so treating all races the same is now considered racist.

When they accuse you of being "racist", that word doesnt mean what it used to mean.

 

[Roadvirus]

Geez, our infection in the United States is spreading.

Oxford University may stop teaching sheet music because of its 'complicity in white supremacy'
Sheet music is now considered "too colonial," while Beethoven and Mozart, and music curriculums in general, are believed to have "complicity in white supremacy."
Oxford University may stop teaching sheet music because of its 'complicity in white supremacy' | The Post Millennial

No doubt, too many of their black students that make up a whole 3% of the student population couldnt read sheet music, so they concluded it must be racist.

Much like here in the US. Symphonies in all the major cities were all white men, so they implemented blind auditions. Quickly the underrepresentation of women was soon corrected and the underrepresentation of blacks stayed the same. So now they are calling to do away with blind auditions. They need to see the candidates color to know who to discriminate against and who to discriminate in favor of. Treating all races the same disproportionately effects black people so treating all races the same is now considered racist.

When they accuse you of being "racist", that word doesnt mean what it used to mean.

It's stupidity like this that makes these Woke twerps hard to take seriously.

 

[dixon01767]

It's stupidity like this that makes these Woke twerps hard to take seriously.

Or how about

"Mathematics was once considered immune: after all, doesn't 2 + 2 = 4?” Ricketts said. “But as I have read recently, the problem that math and arithmetic insist on correct answers is actually a hidden form of 'white supremacy,' as everything else is as well."
Campus Reform the #1 Source for College News

Disagree and for them that is further evidence that you are racist. OMG, I just put 2+2 into my desktop calculator and it says 4. I have a racist calculator and didnt even know it. Much like the math professor above, probably taught math for decades without any indication that math was in any way racist until " I have read recently, the problem that math and arithmetic insist on correct answers is actually a hidden form of 'white supremacy,"....... and the fool believed what he read.

 

[diz]

Here is what I would teach kids in school:

The people who build ships and have gunpowder first usually win. Nuff said.

Who wants to hear the history of basket weavers, when they can learn about the men who built steel buildings, dams, railroads, and rockets?

Well, fortunately kids can still learn this from many video games.

 

[Court Jester]

Well, fortunately kids can still learn this from many video games.

There have always been winners in losers in history. Nobody ever said the winners were angelic beings. Rome for example were pretty ruthless, but they moved civilization forward more than backward.

Thing is, today nobody is still whining about how ruthless the Romans were. There aren't a lot of victim card carrying crybabies talking about "Roman privileged".

 

[calamity]

There have always been winners in losers in history. Nobody ever said the winners were angelic beings. Rome for example were pretty ruthless, but they moved civilization forward more than backward.

Thing is, today nobody is still whining about how ruthless the Romans were. There aren't a lot of victim card carrying crybabies talking about "Roman privileged".

Huh? Christians never shut up about how ruthless the Romans were to them. Be real.

 

[dixon01767]

Huh? Christians never shut up about how ruthless the Romans were to them. Be real.

Care to quote ANY Christian saying ANYTHING about how ruthless the Romans were to them?

 

[diz]

Rome for example were pretty ruthless, but they moved civilization forward more than backward.

This needs to be here: