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The 14th Amendment Birthright Citizenship was intended for the children of freed slaves (1 Viewer)


the authors of the 14th amendment

Who used the words ALL PERSONS with no qualifiers.

To mean, according to you, emancipated slaves.

Except if they meant emancipated slaves they certainly wouldn't use the term ALL PERSONS as that means ALL PERSONS.
 
No one is "subjecting" themselves to anything. That's a verb. It's also a choice. The 14th uses "subject" as an adjective. And it's not a choice, it's a condition.

This guy writing your "source" material doesnt even understand basic grammar and usage. Or is just misusing it to twist the meaning of the 14th to suit his agenda.



Of course they are under the jurisdiction of the US and the state in which they are. They can be charged for a crime or be protected as well.

Please source a definition for "political jurisdiction." How is it distinct from just "jurisdiction?"



Where does the 14th A address "jurisdictional allegiance obligations?"
It never has been for non-citizens
 
Who used the words ALL PERSONS with no qualifiers.

To mean, according to you, emancipated slaves.

Except if they meant emancipated slaves they certainly wouldn't use the term ALL PERSONS as that means ALL PERSONS.
“[a]ll persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power”
that mean citizens
not non-citizens
 
It never has been for non-citizens

Nope, it defines citizens. And that would be:

Section 1

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Correct, non-citizens, period, are not citizens.
 
“[a]ll persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power”
that mean citizens
not non-citizens

ALL PERSONS born in the US are Citizens.

”All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
 
ALL PERSONS born in the US are Citizens.

Yeah, I've color-coded it for him and he still is unable to make the distinction between the words...which are truly different 🤷

Educationally, he seems unprepared for this discussion.
 
“[a]ll persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power”
that mean citizens
not non-citizens

I think you're catching on.

No one's discussing non-citizens because persons born in the US are citizens. Right?
 
they have to apply for citizenship just like all other non-citizens
Nope. Every single child born on US soil is a citizen. The one and only exception is children of diplomats who have diplomatic immunity.
 
There is a misinterpretation of the 14th amendment.

[snippet]
The 14th Amendment doesn’t say that all persons born in the U.S. are citizens. It says that “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” are citizens. That second, critical, conditional phrase is conveniently ignored or misinterpreted by advocates of “birthright” citizenship.

Critics erroneously believe that anyone present in the United States has “subjected” himself “to the jurisdiction” of the United States, which would extend citizenship to the children of tourists, diplomats, and illegal aliens alike.

But that is not what that qualifying phrase means. Its original meaning refers to the political allegiance of an individual and the jurisdiction that a foreign government has over that individual.

The fact that a tourist or illegal alien is subject to our laws and our courts if they violate our laws does not place them within the political “jurisdiction” of the United States as that phrase was defined by the framers of the 14th Amendment.

This amendment’s language was derived from the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which provided that “[a]ll persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power” would be considered citizens.

The 14th Amendment doesn’t say that all persons born in the U.S. are citizens. It says that “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” are citizens. That second, critical, conditional phrase is conveniently ignored or misinterpreted by advocates of “birthright” citizenship.

Critics erroneously believe that anyone present in the United States has “subjected” himself “to the jurisdiction” of the United States, which would extend citizenship to the children of tourists, diplomats, and illegal aliens alike.

But that is not what that qualifying phrase means. Its original meaning refers to the political allegiance of an individual and the jurisdiction that a foreign government has over that individual.

The fact that a tourist or illegal alien is subject to our laws and our courts if they violate our laws does not place them within the political “jurisdiction” of the United States as that phrase was defined by the framers of the 14th Amendment.

This amendment’s language was derived from the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which provided that “[a]ll persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power” would be considered citizens.

Even in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the 1898 case most often cited by “birthright” supporters due to its overbroad language, the court only held that a child born of lawful, permanent residents was a U.S. citizen. That is a far cry from saying that a child born of individuals who are here illegally must be considered a U.S. citizen.

It is just plain wrong to claim that the children born of parents temporarily in the country as students or tourists are automatically U.S. citizens: They do not meet the 14th Amendment’s jurisdictional allegiance obligations. They are, in fact, subject to the political jurisdiction (and allegiance) of the country of their parents. The same applies to the children of illegal aliens because children born in the United States to foreign citizens are citizens of their parents’ home country.

Federal law offers them no help either. U.S. immigration law (8 U.S.C. § 1401) simply repeats the language of the 14th Amendment, including the phrase “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”
Refuted. US v Wong Kim Ark.
 
The USSC needs to make this clear
They already have. In 1898.
[snippet]
As constitutional scholar John C. Eastman has argued, “subject to the jurisdiction” was meant to exclude those who owed allegiance to foreign nations. This understanding is reinforced by the historical context in which the amendment was drafted. Its primary purpose was to grant citizenship to freed slaves, who had been wickedly denied it by the slave states, and later nationally under the infamous Dred Scott decision.

The authors of the 14th Amendment wanted to ensure that the freed slaves were granted citizenship, and that the former slave states could not abridge or deny it. But they never intended for the amendment to grant automatic citizenship to the children of foreign nationals, particularly those who enter the country illegally or remain on temporary visas.

Don’t believe me? Here’s what the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services website has to say:


Wait, what?! Did they just say that if you’re not “subject to the jurisdiction of United States law” then the citizenship provision of the 14th Amendment doesn’t apply to you?
Why yes. Yes they did. And this isn’t a new thing: it’s always been the law.

The Supreme Court affirmed this original understanding of the 14th Amendment in its earliest interpretations. In The Slaughterhouse Cases (1872), the Court explicitly stated that the phrase “subject to its jurisdiction” was intended to exclude children of foreign diplomats, consuls, and foreign nationals born on U.S. soil.
1898 is after 1872 😂

You remain refuted.
 
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It never has been for non-citizens
It has always been for non citizens. It’s why the amendment says all persons, and doesn’t say citizens. It’s also why your argument has lost every single time it’s ever been in front of any court.
 
“[a]ll persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power”
that mean citizens
not non-citizens
It means all persons, like the amendment explicitly says. And not citizens, as there is no mention of citizens vs non citizens in the amendment. It’s also why you’ve lost every single time this stupidity has ever been tried in court.
 
Wait, what?! Did they just say that if you’re not “subject to the jurisdiction of United States law” then the citizenship provision of the 14th Amendment doesn’t apply to you?
Why yes. Yes they did. And this isn’t a new thing: it’s always been the law.

Correct.

For anyone to whom US immigration law applies, they are subject to United States law, and if they are born here, are thus a US citizen.

For anyone to whom US immigration law does not apply, they have not broken any laws and thus cannot be considered illegal aliens.
 
You’re gonna do real well here…….I just have a feeling…..
 
Correct.

For anyone to whom US immigration law applies, they are subject to United States law, and if they are born here, are thus a US citizen.

For anyone to whom US immigration law does not apply, they have not broken any laws and thus cannot be considered illegal aliens.
you do not understand what “subject to the jurisdiction of United States law” means
Yeah, I've color-coded it for him and he still is unable to make the distinction between the words...which are truly different 🤷

Educationally, he seems unprepared for this discussion.
The children whose parents who are not citizens are not eligible for birthright citizenship, because they are "subject to a foreign power”
That means that birthright citizenship does not apply to them because they are the citizens of another country.
Why is this so complex?
 
I think you're catching on.

No one's discussing non-citizens because persons born in the US are citizens. Right?
The Supreme Court affirmed this original understanding of the 14th Amendment in its earliest interpretations. In The Slaughterhouse Cases (1872), the Court explicitly stated that the phrase “subject to its jurisdiction” was intended to exclude children of foreign diplomats, consuls, and foreign nationals born on U.S. soil.
 
they have to apply for citizenship just like all other non-citizens
Why? They have a birth certificate, a passport, and the Constitution that say they are citizens. You are free to disagree, but remember, Trump wants to end birthright citizenship, which is current the status quo.

And btw, where would you deport them to? Why would any country accept them if they have a US birth certificate and have been granted a US passport?

Face it, this is just the latest plank in Donald Trump’s platform of hate and resentment of immigrants: legal ones whom he compared to poisonous snakes, illegal ones who he called rapists, overseas refugees vetted by several US agencies over many months whom he suggested might be terrorists, migrants crossing the border whom he suggested be shot in the legs, people from “shit hole countries,” and Muslims, whom he suggested banning completely. Hitler had Jews and Gypsies; Trump has Muslims and migrants.

FDR’s message: “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” Trump: the only thing I have to offer is fear.
 

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