• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

"That’s not how our democracy functions."

APACHERAT said:
The National Council of La Raza and it's agenda are no different than all of the other La Raza organization in the past. NCLR is no diffrent than the former "La Raza Mexicana," "La Raza Esanola" or "La Raza Hispano-Americano." All are/were a racist, Mexican nationalist organizations.

NCLR has ties to a number of separatist Reconquista groups:

>" In 2007, La Raza's website stated explicitly that NCLR's mission is the “empowerment of our gente [people] and the liberation of Aztlán.” <

La Raza's Support of Separatist Groups:

>" While claiming that it “has never supported, and does not support, separatist organizations,” NCLR acknowledges that in 2003 it provided the Georgetown University chapter of MEChA—an openly separatist Chicano student group—with a $2,500 grant..."<

The Premise That America Is Racist, Hateful, and Discriminatory:

>" NCLR has succeeded in defining, on its own terms, the parameters of the immigration debate by smearing critics of its agendas as “anti-immigrant” racists. Typical was a 2008 campaign called “We Can Stop the Hate.” Launched by NCLR with the assistance of the Center for American Progress, Media Matters, and the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF), this campaign was overtly designed to silence critics who raised alarms about mass illegal immigration into the United States, and who opposed amnesty and open borders. The La Raza campaign portrayed such concerns as the “rhetoric of hate groups, nativists, and vigilantes.”<


Opposing Assimilation:

>" NCLR opposes legislation that would make English the official language of the United States. Former La Raza president Raul Yzaguirre once declared that “U.S. English”—America's oldest, largest citizens'-action group dedicated to preserving English as the national tongue—“is to Hispanics, as the Ku Klux Klan is to blacks.”

Strongly supportive of bilingual education and the provision of bilingual ballots for Spanish-speaking voters, NCLR in 1998 joined other left-wing groups in filing a lawsuit designed to prevent Proposition 227, California's ballot initiative for bilingual-education reform, from becoming state law."<

>" In 2011, a Judicial Watch investigation revealed that federal funding for NCLR and its affiliates had skyrocketed since President Barack Obama had hired its longtime senior policy analyst, Cecilia Muñoz, to be his director of intergovernmental affairs in 2009. During Muñoz's first year in the White House, government funds earmarked for La Raza totaled approximately $11 million—far above the $4.1 million figure for the previous year. Fully 60 percent of that $11 million came from the Department of Labor—headed by Hilda Solis, who has close ties to the La Raza movement. Further, in 2010 the Department of Housing and Urban Development gave NCLR $2.5 million to fund its housing-counseling program; the Department of Education contributed almost $800,000 to NCLR; and the Centers for Disease Control gave approximately $250,000.

Moreover, NCLR affiliates nationwide collected tens of millions of government grant and recovery dollars in 2010. An NCLR offshoot called Chicanos Por La Causa, for example, saw its federal funding nearly double to $18.3 million following Muñoz’s appointment. Ayuda Inc., which provides immigration law services and guarantees confidentiality to assure illegal aliens that they will not be reported to authorities, took in $600,000 in 2009 and $548,000 in 2010 from the Department of Justice. (The group had not received any federal funding between 2005 and 2008.)"<

Controversy over the Name “La Raza”:

>" The words “La Raza” (Spanish for “The Race”) in NCLR's name have long been a source of considerable controversy. Critics claim that the name reflects an organizational commitment to racial separatism and race-based grievance mongering. By NCLR's telling, however, such critics have mistranslated the word “Raza.” “The term 'La Raza,'” says the organization, “has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as 'the people' or, according to some scholars, 'the Hispanic people of the New World.'” According to NCLR, “the full term,” which was coined by the Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos, is “la raza cósmica,” meaning “the cosmic people.” NCLR describes this as “an inclusive concept” whose purpose is to express the fact that “Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”

NCLR's interpretation of Vasconcelos's explanation, however, is inaccurate. As Guillermo Lux and Maurilio Vigil (professors of history and political science, respectively, at New Mexico Highlands University) note in their 1991 book, Aztlan: Essays on the Chicano Homeland:

"The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race) at least partially as a minority reaction to the Nordic notions of racial superiority. Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race. The concept of La Raza connotes that the mestizo is a distinct race and not Caucasian, as is technically the case."

In short, Vasconcelos was not promoting "an inclusive concept," but rather, the notion of Hispanic racial superiority."<

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfile.asp?grpid=153
Click to expand...

Nothin there states they are Marxists.
 
APACHERAT said:
These people are so dumb, they just don't know what a Marxist is, they are also clueless who Al Qaeda is and are unaware that it's ok to own more than one pair of underwear.
Click to expand...

So they still arent Marxists. Nor did you explain how they are Marxists.
 
Apacherat has a very strange fascination about Latinos...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So they still arent Marxists. Nor did you explain how they are Marxists.
Click to expand...

They practice Marxist culturalism.

But I digress.

Mexican Separatist School Pushes Marxism, Anti-Americanism

A school in Los Angeles, California, is using taxpayer money to push a radical separatist agenda to its students, according to evidence obtained by Judicial Watch through the California Public Records Act. Academia Semillas del Pueblo (Seeds of the People Academy) was ostensibly established to provide an alternative to traditional schools and better education options for Latinos. Behind the façade, statements by the school’s president, Mexican radical Marcos Aguilar, prove that the school’s purpose is far more threatening.

Aguilar was a student radical at UCLA in the early 1990s, when he joined the reconquista-focused student group M.E.Ch.A, which features the slogan “Por La Raza todo, Fuera de La Raza nada,” or, “For the Race, everything, for those outside the Race, nothing.” He was involved in destroying a teacher’s lounge at UCLA in 1993 as part of a protest to force the University to create a Chicano Studies department.

Aguilar’s radical, racist bent has continued into his role as principal of Academia Semillas del Pueblo. The school’s charter emphasizes Mexican culture, collective governance, and anti-Americanism as its three main focal points in the education of students. Mexican culture is promoted to the exclusion of American ideals; instruction in the English language does not begin until the fourth grade. The end result of these policies: the lowest rank possible on the State Department of Education’s “Academic Performance Index”.

Academia Semillas del Pueblo, a combination of anti-American, separatist ideology and clear academic failings, is being paid for by American taxpayers in the amount of $1.6 million for fiscal year 2004-2005. The school also received a $50,000 grant and a $200,000 line of credit from reconquista organization the National Council of La Raza. According to Professor Clynn Custred of California State University, quoted in an Investor’s Business Daily article, “There is a racial aspect to this. They have no intention of assimilating – It’s just amazing to me that the rest of the country hasn’t caught on to it.”

Mexican Separatist School Pushes Marxism, Anti-Americanism - Judicial Watch
 
APACHERAT said:
They practice Marxist culturalism.

But I digress.

Mexican Separatist School Pushes Marxism, Anti-Americanism

A school in Los Angeles, California, is using taxpayer money to push a radical separatist agenda to its students, according to evidence obtained by Judicial Watch through the California Public Records Act. Academia Semillas del Pueblo (Seeds of the People Academy) was ostensibly established to provide an alternative to traditional schools and better education options for Latinos. Behind the façade, statements by the school’s president, Mexican radical Marcos Aguilar, prove that the school’s purpose is far more threatening.

Aguilar was a student radical at UCLA in the early 1990s, when he joined the reconquista-focused student group M.E.Ch.A, which features the slogan “Por La Raza todo, Fuera de La Raza nada,” or, “For the Race, everything, for those outside the Race, nothing.” He was involved in destroying a teacher’s lounge at UCLA in 1993 as part of a protest to force the University to create a Chicano Studies department.

Aguilar’s radical, racist bent has continued into his role as principal of Academia Semillas del Pueblo. The school’s charter emphasizes Mexican culture, collective governance, and anti-Americanism as its three main focal points in the education of students. Mexican culture is promoted to the exclusion of American ideals; instruction in the English language does not begin until the fourth grade. The end result of these policies: the lowest rank possible on the State Department of Education’s “Academic Performance Index”.

Academia Semillas del Pueblo, a combination of anti-American, separatist ideology and clear academic failings, is being paid for by American taxpayers in the amount of $1.6 million for fiscal year 2004-2005. The school also received a $50,000 grant and a $200,000 line of credit from reconquista organization the National Council of La Raza. According to Professor Clynn Custred of California State University, quoted in an Investor’s Business Daily article, “There is a racial aspect to this. They have no intention of assimilating – It’s just amazing to me that the rest of the country hasn’t caught on to it.”

Mexican Separatist School Pushes Marxism, Anti-Americanism - Judicial Watch
Click to expand...

Nothing in that is Marxist.
 
*sigh*

Since you apparently can't be bothered to click a link, here's the relevant passage.

"...La Raza emerged as the single most important symbol of ethnic pride and identification. There were many ways of using this term, depending on the context. "La Raza Mexicana," "La Raza Hispano-Americana," "La Raza Española," and "La Raza Latina" were all used to convey a sense of the racial, class, and national variety within the Spanish-speaking community. But in general the use of "La Raza" implied membership in a cultural tradition that was separate from the "Anglo-Sajones" or "norte-americanos."... Thus, regardless of the type of newspaper, "La Raza" came to be a common term of self-identification." (Emphasis added)

He then goes on to identify actual "social clubs and political associations" active between 1850 and 1900, ranging from conservative to militant to musical. He describes the activities of La Junta Patrotica de Juarez, an actual nationalist organization that -- horrors! -- organized Cinco de Mayo celebrations and parades. Which is what we would expect from someone who is describing organizations.

None of those actual, existing organizations had any direct lineage to NCLR, which started in the 1960s, borne out of the civil rights movements of that time. The earliest predecessor to NCLR was the Southwest Council of La Raza, which started in Arizona in 1968, funded by the Council of Churches, the UAW, and the Ford Foundation. They went national in 1972.

At any rate, the real problem is that your bizarre attempts to slag NCLR, as well as your general histrionics about Hispanics -- oh, sorry, "illegal immigrants" -- demonstrates how vital it is for civil rights organizations to be active, and for the Hispanic community to fight to protect their civil rights.

Oh, and you do know that Bush 43 also spoke to NCLR?

''It doesn't matter what party you're from,'' he said, as he stood before more than 1,000 people at the annual convention of the National Council of La Raza. ''You've got to admit: When it takes three to five years to process paperwork, that's too long. It's time to reform the I.N.S.'' (Bush Seeks to Boost Image With Minorities - NYTimes.com)

I guess that makes him a traitor, too? Maybe they were inciting him to exceed his authority by reforming the INS, without the approval of Congress...?
 
Not to mention a House that scheduled on 114 days to be in official session in 2014, down 12 days from last year.
Or a House that passed out a "blank" sheet of paper as their agenda for 2014.
Or a House that won't act on a Tax Rewrite bill that theie own Ways and Means Chair Dave Camp put out .
 
CrabCake said:
That may be (I'm not saying it is, but it could be. But your claim was this:
Click to expand...

Claims? Let's talk about claims.

Republicans chose to filibuster every major legislation. The only way ACA was able to pass was for a Republican to buck his party and not vote. Even that opportunity was gone once Kennedy died and was replaced by a Republican, making any sort of major legislation after the ACA impossible.
Click to expand...

Dodd-Frank. Cash For Clunkers. COBRA Extension. 2010 NDAA (That included Matthew Sheppard Hate Crimes Prevention Act and Unemployment Extension).

The only way ACA was able to pass was for a Republican to buck his party and not vote. Even that opportunity was gone once Kennedy died and was replaced by a Republican, making any sort of major legislation after the ACA impossible.
Click to expand...

2010 HIRE Act. Several rounds of unemployment extension. Reconciliation Act.


First of all, your claim wasn't that they could pass some legislation. Your claim was that they could pass any legislation they wanted. How you reach that conclusion given that they barely passed ACA thanks to a single republican sitting out, and that this was now impossible once Kennedy died, is beyond me.
Click to expand...

The final bill was passed after Kennedy died. It was already through the Senate, but House Democrats weren't happy with it. They decided to reign in their demands and take a more moderate approach due to the political shock of a traditional Democratic stronghold seat going to a Republican by five points. And thus works the democratic process.

Your claim, however, threw out the word "impossible" a lot. That argument is bunk and you know it, seeing as how several bills (including major pieces of legislation such as the ACA) got around the filibuster wall. Further, the Democrats did enjoy a filibuster-proof supermajority (counting the two independents that vote Democrat) for approximately six months, minus a brief stint between Kennedy's death and Kirk's appointment. Even while Franken's recount battle was going on, the 59-41 split still saw legislation passed.

My claim (anything) is correct for a six month period, with several examples of the filibuster wall failing outside of that period. Your claim (nothing), on the other hand, is demonstrably wrong.
 
ernst barkmann said:
The school’s charter emphasizes Mexican culture, collective governance,
Click to expand...

Learning about a culture does not equal Marxist. Are we Marxist cuz we emphasize European culture in our history classes?
 
Wait a minute, if my claim is nothing, then aren't I correct by default?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Nope. Its not. Marxism is a way of analyizng the world.
Click to expand...


http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104142100311


Though the main emphasis of the collective was the study of Marxism-Leninism, external tasks began to play more of a role in collective work.

A Short History of the Tucson Marxist-Leninist Collective

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-4/tmlc-history.htm

collective....... is a group of entities that share or are motivated by at least one common issue or interest, or work together to achieve a common objective

Governance........ refers to "all processes of governing, whether undertaken by a government, market or network, whether over a family, tribe, formal or informal organization or territory and whether through laws, norms, power or language."[1] It relates to processes and decisions that seek to define actions, grant power and verify performance.






the u.s. federal government was designed, to prevent collectivism.......
 
Last edited:
ernst barkmann said:
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


Though the main emphasis of the collective was the study of Marxism-Leninism, external tasks began to play more of a role in collective work.

A Short History of the Tucson Marxist-Leninist Collective

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-4/tmlc-history.htm

collective....... is a group of entities that share or are motivated by at least one common issue or interest, or work together to achieve a common objective

Governance........ refers to "all processes of governing, whether undertaken by a government, market or network, whether over a family, tribe, formal or informal organization or territory and whether through laws, norms, power or language."[1] It relates to processes and decisions that seek to define actions, grant power and verify performance.






the u.s. federal government was designed, to prevent collectivism.......
Click to expand...

Marxism-Leninsm is not Marxism.
 
Visbek said:
*sigh*

Since you apparently can't be bothered to click a link, here's the relevant passage.

"...La Raza emerged as the single most important symbol of ethnic pride and identification. There were many ways of using this term, depending on the context. "La Raza Mexicana," "La Raza Hispano-Americana," "La Raza Española," and "La Raza Latina" were all used to convey a sense of the racial, class, and national variety within the Spanish-speaking community. But in general the use of "La Raza" implied membership in a cultural tradition that was separate from the "Anglo-Sajones" or "norte-americanos."... Thus, regardless of the type of newspaper, "La Raza" came to be a common term of self-identification." (Emphasis added)

He then goes on to identify actual "social clubs and political associations" active between 1850 and 1900, ranging from conservative to militant to musical. He describes the activities of La Junta Patrotica de Juarez, an actual nationalist organization that -- horrors! -- organized Cinco de Mayo celebrations and parades. Which is what we would expect from someone who is describing organizations.

None of those actual, existing organizations had any direct lineage to NCLR, which started in the 1960s, borne out of the civil rights movements of that time. The earliest predecessor to NCLR was the Southwest Council of La Raza, which started in Arizona in 1968, funded by the Council of Churches, the UAW, and the Ford Foundation. They went national in 1972.

At any rate, the real problem is that your bizarre attempts to slag NCLR, as well as your general histrionics about Hispanics -- oh, sorry, "illegal immigrants" -- demonstrates how vital it is for civil rights organizations to be active, and for the Hispanic community to fight to protect their civil rights.

Oh, and you do know that Bush 43 also spoke to NCLR?

''It doesn't matter what party you're from,'' he said, as he stood before more than 1,000 people at the annual convention of the National Council of La Raza. ''You've got to admit: When it takes three to five years to process paperwork, that's too long. It's time to reform the I.N.S.'' (Bush Seeks to Boost Image With Minorities - NYTimes.com)

I guess that makes him a traitor, too? Maybe they were inciting him to exceed his authority by reforming the INS, without the approval of Congress...?
Click to expand...

Castillo white washing these political Mexican nationalist organizations as just being social clubs doesn't fly.

The first criminal Latino street gangs started out not in L.A. but just north of L.A. in the city of San Fernando, Ca. around 1900 as just a social weekend baseball games.

Most of the original East L.A. gangs started out as just weekend social dance events during the 1930's, the beginning of the pachuco.

Remember those innocent looking beatnik coffee houses during the 1950's ? It where between reading of poetry while drinking gallons of coffee and smoking cartons of cigarettes the future "New Left" would plan their overthrow of the U.S. Government. It didn't work out to well so in 1972 they decided to join the Democrat Party.

Even the Hells Angels started out as a social club. It still is today. :lol:




BTW: Bush 43 is a neoconservative not a conservative. Bush 43 supported blanket amnesty for illegal aliens. Remember the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill in 2006 ? They had the votes in both the House and the Senate and the American people made themselves heard. It caused the D.C phone grid to collapse.

Bush 43 was the best friend illegal aliens ever had in the White House and I still shake my head when Bush was POTUS and illegals would ask me "Why does El Presidente Bush hate Mexicans " ? I asked them who told you that ? "National Council of La Raza."

The National Council of La Raza is a radical leftist political activist group that can be found under the Democrat tent. They're easy to find when walking down the Democrats Carnival Midway, just next to the former KKK booth now occupied by the SEIU you look across to the other side and you'll see the The Party for Socialism and Liberation booth. Right next to them you'll see the National Council of La Raza booth. You can't miss them.
 
ernst barkmann said:
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


Though the main emphasis of the collective was the study of Marxism-Leninism, external tasks began to play more of a role in collective work.

A Short History of the Tucson Marxist-Leninist Collective

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-4/tmlc-history.htm

collective....... is a group of entities that share or are motivated by at least one common issue or interest, or work together to achieve a common objective

Governance........ refers to "all processes of governing, whether undertaken by a government, market or network, whether over a family, tribe, formal or informal organization or territory and whether through laws, norms, power or language."[1] It relates to processes and decisions that seek to define actions, grant power and verify performance.






the u.s. federal government was designed, to prevent collectivism.......
Click to expand...

I love JSTOR, it's an excellent source.
 
instagramsci said:
oh please. the us federal government was designed to protect class interests
Click to expand...

read the founders, and don't just they things you think.

the u.s. federal government structure of the founders prevents collectivism

federalist 63--The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and not in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people from the administration of the former.
 
CrabCake said:
Wait a minute, if my claim is nothing, then aren't I correct by default?
Click to expand...

You claimed that "nothing" could be passed. Impossibility. Could. Not. Happen.

You are demonstrably wrong.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
You claimed that "nothing" could be passed. Impossibility. Could. Not. Happen.
Click to expand...

I never made that claim. Feel free to provide a quote if you feel I did.

I claimed that you were incorrect in stating that Democrats could pass anything they wanted.

I also pointed out that all major legislative actions were being filibustered. Only by stretching the definition of "major" to include short term fixes and emergency measures can this claim be deemed false. But since "major" is a subjective measure I suppose it's fair for you to claim this or that emergency measure was major. Nevertheless, I never claimed they couldn't pass anything. I did claim that they couldn't pass anything they wanted, which is true.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom