Terrorist Attacks UK : USA

[Rich2018]

7/14/23

"...Syrian would-be mass murderer armed with an AK-47, 1,800 rounds of ammunition, a grenade and enough explosives to obliterate a crowd in what would have been a catastrophic domestic terrorist attack..."

Bodycam footage shows Fargo cops take out Syrian gunman

Mohamad Barakat, 37, was on his way to commit a mass casualty attack in downtown Fargo on July 14 when he became involved in a crash. He opened fire on cops at the scene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

5/22/13

"...the killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby outside Woolwich barracks in May 2013 by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale was by no means the last of such low-tech attacks in Britain, however.
Several were foiled, including one planned by Brusthom Ziamani, a 19-year-old Muslim convert caught wandering the streets of east London with a knife, hammer and Isis flag hunting for a target the following year.
Three months later, in November 2014, Nadir Syed, 23, from Hounslow, west London, was arrested after buying an 11in kitchen knife at a shop in Ealing with a plan to attack a Remembrance Day poppy- seller.
Junead Khan, 25, a delivery driver from Luton, was arrested in July 2015 as he planned to stage a road accident and then kill a US airman outside a base in East Anglia with a combat knife..."

Reading is latest in seven years of terrorist knife attacks in UK

The first such attack in the UK, the 2013 killing of Lee Rigby, remains the highest-profile

www.theguardian.com

What if those Muslim terrorists in the UK had AK-47's with thousands of rounds of ammunition (plus grenades and explosives).

 

[The Stars Tremble]

I had a knife pulled on me once. It wasn't pleasant. It gave me nightmares. But I had friends with me, so no-one got stabbed.

Actual terrorists are not so rational. They can (and sometimes do) stab people to death despite the risk to themselves. Terrorists don't care if they live or die, which is what makes them so terrifying.

I also have to point out, that the worst terrorists don't use guns. They use bombs. When Al Qaida tried to bring down World Trade Center One with a standard truck bomb, we should have gotten serious about fertilizer control. But we didn't, because of the farm lobby. Two years later, the Federal Building in Oklahoma City was blown up, and we STILL didn't get serious about fertilizer control.

We will never agree on gun control, but can't we at least agree on truck bomb control?

 

[Rich2018]

I had a knife pulled on me once. It wasn't pleasant. It gave me nightmares. But I had friends with me, so no-one got stabbed.

Actual terrorists are not so rational. They can (and sometimes do) stab people to death despite the risk to themselves. Terrorists don't care if they live or die, which is what makes them so terrifying.

I also have to point out, that the worst terrorists don't use guns. They use bombs. When Al Qaida tried to bring down World Trade Center One with a standard truck bomb, we should have gotten serious about fertilizer control. But we didn't, because of the farm lobby. Two years later, the Federal Building in Oklahoma City was blown up, and we STILL didn't get serious about fertilizer control.

We will never agree on gun control, but can't we at least agree on truck bomb control?

I'm sue it's not pleasant, but having a gun pulled on you - especially if it's a fully automatic AK-47 - with the intent to kill you, is even less pleasant.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

I'm sue it's not pleasant, but having a gun pulled on you - especially if it's a fully automatic AK-47 - with the intent to kill you, is even less pleasant.

You can run from a knife, and your odds are 50/50. You can wrestle with a knife, your odds are not so good (because you still have to wrestle even if you put the knife out of play.) But if you have friends with you, the knife-man will probably run from you.

Luckily for me, I don't have much experience. But I do know that very few people who carry a knife, have a throwing knife or can use it. Guns can kill you even if you run. They can kill you even if you try to rush the gunman. And a single stab with a knife is much less likely to be lethal, than a single shot from a gun.

Guns are far more effective for killing, than knives are.

But I return to my previous point. Bombs are even more effective than guns, for killing people. If we're worried about terrorists, we should be more worried about bomb ingredients than we are about guns.

 

[JMB1911A1]

7/14/23

"...Syrian would-be mass murderer armed with an AK-47, 1,800 rounds of ammunition, a grenade and enough explosives to obliterate a crowd in what would have been a catastrophic domestic terrorist attack..."

Bodycam footage shows Fargo cops take out Syrian gunman

Mohamad Barakat, 37, was on his way to commit a mass casualty attack in downtown Fargo on July 14 when he became involved in a crash. He opened fire on cops at the scene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

5/22/13

"...the killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby outside Woolwich barracks in May 2013 by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale was by no means the last of such low-tech attacks in Britain, however.
Several were foiled, including one planned by Brusthom Ziamani, a 19-year-old Muslim convert caught wandering the streets of east London with a knife, hammer and Isis flag hunting for a target the following year.
Three months later, in November 2014, Nadir Syed, 23, from Hounslow, west London, was arrested after buying an 11in kitchen knife at a shop in Ealing with a plan to attack a Remembrance Day poppy- seller.
Junead Khan, 25, a delivery driver from Luton, was arrested in July 2015 as he planned to stage a road accident and then kill a US airman outside a base in East Anglia with a combat knife..."

Reading is latest in seven years of terrorist knife attacks in UK

The first such attack in the UK, the 2013 killing of Lee Rigby, remains the highest-profile

www.theguardian.com

What if those Muslim terrorists in the UK had AK-47's with thousands of rounds of ammunition (plus grenades and explosives).

Well, you forgot that Lee Rigby's killers also had a revolver.

Murder of Lee Rigby - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Explosives and vehicles seem to be the weapons of choice in the UK.

7/7/2005 London bombings - 56 dead

7 July 2005 London bombings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

22May 2017 - Machester Arena - 23 dead

Manchester Arena bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

3 June 2017- London Bridge - 8 dead

2017 London Bridge attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rich2018]

You can run from a knife, and your odds are 50/50. You can wrestle with a knife, your odds are not so good (because you still have to wrestle even if you put the knife out of play.) But if you have friends with you, the knife-man will probably run from you.

The official US government advice, if caught in an active shooter situation, is:
Run
Hide
Fight

In that order
So yes, you can run from a gunman too.

Luckily for me, I don't have much experience.

By some strange coincidence, I share the same luck as you.

But I do know that very few people who carry a knife, have a throwing knife or can use it.

Why would anyone throw a knife and disarm himself ?

Guns can kill you even if you run. They can kill you even if you try to rush the gunman. And a single stab with a knife is much less likely to be lethal, than a single shot from a gun.

Knifemen can run after you and kill you, but yes, you are much safer if confronted by a knifeman, than by a gunman.

Guns are far more effective for killing, than knives are.

100% correct.

But I return to my previous point. Bombs are even more effective than guns, for killing people. If we're worried about terrorists, we should be more worried about bomb ingredients than we are about guns.

Though bombs are dangerous to the bomber and we are worried about bomb components. However it is much harder to build a bomb (and not kill yourself in the process) than to buy a gun
This is why people wanting to kill lots of other people (eg: my example in the OP) generally use guns (in the USA) and edged weapons (in the UK since the end of Irish Republican terrorism.

 

[Fledermaus]

The official US government advice, if caught in an active shooter situation, is:
Run
Hide
Fight

In that order
So yes, you can run from a gunman too.



By some strange coincidence, I share the same luck as you.



Why would anyone throw a knife and disarm himself ?



Knifemen can run after you and kill you, but yes, you are much safer if confronted by a knifeman, than by a gunman.



100% correct.



Though bombs are dangerous to the bomber and we are worried about bomb components. However it is much harder to build a bomb (and not kill yourself in the process) than to buy a gun
This is why people wanting to kill lots of other people (eg: my example in the OP) generally use guns (in the USA) and edged weapons (in the UK since the end of Irish Republican terrorism.

We can add bomb making to the list of things you have no clue about.

 

[Noodlegawd]

7/14/23

"...Syrian would-be mass murderer armed with an AK-47, 1,800 rounds of ammunition, a grenade and enough explosives to obliterate a crowd in what would have been a catastrophic domestic terrorist attack..."

Bodycam footage shows Fargo cops take out Syrian gunman

Mohamad Barakat, 37, was on his way to commit a mass casualty attack in downtown Fargo on July 14 when he became involved in a crash. He opened fire on cops at the scene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

5/22/13

"...the killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby outside Woolwich barracks in May 2013 by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale was by no means the last of such low-tech attacks in Britain, however.
Several were foiled, including one planned by Brusthom Ziamani, a 19-year-old Muslim convert caught wandering the streets of east London with a knife, hammer and Isis flag hunting for a target the following year.
Three months later, in November 2014, Nadir Syed, 23, from Hounslow, west London, was arrested after buying an 11in kitchen knife at a shop in Ealing with a plan to attack a Remembrance Day poppy- seller.
Junead Khan, 25, a delivery driver from Luton, was arrested in July 2015 as he planned to stage a road accident and then kill a US airman outside a base in East Anglia with a combat knife..."

Reading is latest in seven years of terrorist knife attacks in UK

The first such attack in the UK, the 2013 killing of Lee Rigby, remains the highest-profile

www.theguardian.com

What if those Muslim terrorists in the UK had AK-47's with thousands of rounds of ammunition (plus grenades and explosives).

The guy in the US incident, with all the ammo and stuff, killed one person.

The UK terrorists mentioned in the other article killed 8 in one incident. Five people were killed in another incident.

What if they had a TATP nail bomb?

Manchester Arena bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or a box truck?

2016 Nice truck attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rich2018]

The guy in the US incident, with all the ammo and stuff, killed one person.

The UK terrorists mentioned in the other article killed 8 in one incident. Five people were killed in another incident.

What if they had a TATP nail bomb?

Manchester Arena bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or a box truck?

2016 Nice truck attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's not the point
The point is that if he had not been stopped before he committed a mass killing, a ***LOT*** more people would've died, because of the weaponry he'd amassed
We just got "lucky" with him.

 

[RF667799]

That's not the point
The point is that if he had not been stopped before he committed a mass killing, a ***LOT*** more people would've died, because of the weaponry he'd amassed
We just got "lucky" with him.

Speculation. If the UK terrorists had been stopped, they perhaps wouldn't have killed as many as they did. But they weren't, and they killed more than this guy.

 

[Noodlegawd]

That's not the point
The point is that if he had not been stopped before he committed a mass killing, a ***LOT*** more people would've died, because of the weaponry he'd amassed
We just got "lucky" with him.

That's your point, not THE point, and it's a stupid point

If, based on some fantasy version of the world, he hadn't been able to obtain such weaponry, he easily could have obtained other means of murdering large numbers of people, as demonstrated by the other events I referenced.

 

[Rich2018]

Speculation. If the UK terrorists had been stopped, they perhaps wouldn't have killed as many as they did. But they weren't, and they killed more than this guy.

So you think that terrorists armed with knives are just as dangerous as those armed with automatic rifles ?

 

[Rich2018]

That's your point, not THE point, and it's a stupid point

If, based on some fantasy version of the world, he hadn't been able to obtain such weaponry, he easily could have obtained other means of murdering large numbers of people, as demonstrated by the other events I referenced.

No, it's ***THE*** point

Experience shows that terrorists (intent on killing as many people as possible) armed with edged weapons, are far less dangerous that similar motivated people armed with guns.

 

[RF667799]

So you think that terrorists armed with knives are just as dangerous as those armed with automatic rifles ?

In the examples you used for comparison, the UK terrorists killed more people.

 

[RF667799]

No, it's ***THE*** point

Experience shows that terrorists (intent on killing as many people as possible) armed with edged weapons, are far less dangerous that similar motivated people armed with guns.

So what was the point of using anecdotal evidence that specifically failed to support that?

I think I know.

 

[Rich2018]

In the examples you used for comparison, the UK terrorists killed more people.

So what ?
The US terrorist was stopped thanks to a lucky traffic stop

Are you justifying US gun laws on the grounds that terrorists will always be similarly stopped ?

 

[RF667799]

So what ?
The US terrorist was stopped thanks to a lucky traffic stop

Are you justifying US gun laws on the grounds that terrorists will always be similarly stopped ?

As example of terrorists being more dangerous in the US, you compared instances where the UK terrorists killed more people.

 

[Noodlegawd]

No, it's ***THE*** point

Experience shows that terrorists (intent on killing as many people as possible) armed with edged weapons, are far less dangerous that similar motivated people armed with guns.

You are assuming that the only alternative to a legally-obtained firearm is an edged weapon, which a lot of the largest mass murders in history demonstrate to be a false assumption.

 

[Rich2018]

As example of terrorists being more dangerous in the US, you compared instances where the UK terrorists killed more people.

So a terrorist is more dangerous with a knife than an AK-47 in your mind

Got it.

 

[Rich2018]

You are assuming that the only alternative to a legally-obtained firearm is an edged weapon, which a lot of the largest mass murders in history demonstrate to be a false assumption.

That would appear to be case in a recent series of Islamic terrorist attacks in London.

 

[RF667799]

So a terrorist is more dangerous with a knife than an AK-47 in your mind

Got it.

No, what I said was that your example was UK terrorists carrying out deadlier attacks than a US terrorist.

 

[Rich2018]

No, what I said was that your example was UK terrorists carrying out deadlier attacks than a US terrorist.

So you admit that a terrorist with an AK-47 is more dangerous than one armed with a knife ?

 

[Noodlegawd]

That would appear to be case in a recent series of Islamic terrorist attacks in London.

Not really. In the timeframe covered by your article, only about a quarter of the murders by Islamic terrorists in the UK were committed with knives. Moreover, the US and the UK have had roughly the same number of people killed in Islamic terrorist attacks in the last 20 years, even though the US has nearly 5 times the population.

 

[RF667799]

So you admit that a terrorist with an AK-47 is more dangerous than one armed with a knife ?

We'll never know from your evidence, which had the UK terrorists killing more people.

 

[Rich2018]

Not really. In the timeframe covered by your article, only about a quarter of the murders by Islamic terrorists in the UK were committed with knives. Moreover, the US and the UK have had roughly the same number of people killed in Islamic terrorist attacks in the last 20 years, even though the US has nearly 5 times the population.

There have been three recent Islamic terrorist attacks in London. In all three the terrorists were armed with an edged weapon
On stark contrast to the Islamic terrorist alluded to in post#1.