Ten Pro-Choice Arguments

[windovervocalcords]

"Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion, because it remains the woman's choice whether or not to give her child up for adoption. Statistics show that very few women who give birth choose to give up their babies - less than 3% of white unmarried women and less than 2% of black unmarried women.

Abortion is a safe medical procedure. The vast majority of women - 88% - who have an abortion do so in their first trimester. Medical abortions have less than 0.5% risk of serious complications and do not affect a woman's health or future ability to become pregnant or give birth.

In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

Abortion is not used as a form of contraception. Pregnancy can occur even with responsible contraceptive use. Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control, and that is due more to individual carelessness than to the availability of abortion.

The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

Taxpayer dollars are used to enable poor women to access the same medical services as rich women, and abortion is one of these services. Funding abortion is no different from funding a war in the Mideast. For those who are opposed, the place to express outrage is in the voting booth.

Teenagers who become mothers have grim prospects for the future. They are much more likely to leave of school; receive inadequate prenatal care; rely on public assistance to raise a child; develop health problems; or end up divorced.

Like any other difficult situation, abortion creates stress. Yet the American Psychological Association found that stress was greatest prior to an abortion, and that there was no evidence of post-abortion syndrome." Ten Arguments For Abortion and Against Abortion


I thought this list may spark discussion.

 

[lizzie]

I thought this list may spark discussion.

I will bet you are right.

Edited to add: I would argue with you, but you and I are already on the same page.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I will bet you are right.

Edited to add: I would argue with you, but you and I are already on the same page.

We'll see what happens. You're welcome to argue with me. It's often interesting to pick the opposite side of your own stance to debate.

 

[Chuz Life]

"Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

Looks like it "exists" to me.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

They are both murder. Legality doesn't make the child killed any less dead.

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion, because it remains the woman's choice whether or not to give her child up for adoption. Statistics show that very few women who give birth choose to give up their babies - less than 3% of white unmarried women and less than 2% of black unmarried women.

Adoption is always an alternative,... regardless of how many or how few choose an alternative,... it remains an alternative just the same.

Abortion is a safe medical procedure. The vast majority of women - 88% - who have an abortion do so in their first trimester. Medical abortions have less than 0.5% risk of serious complications and do not affect a woman's health or future ability to become pregnant or give birth.

Abortions are nearly 100 percent fatal to the prebirth children who are being aborted. - Nearly.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ"]YouTube- Gianna Jessen Abortion Survivor in Australia Part 1[/ame]

In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

(sorry in advance to the Catholics and life is sacred crowds)

Abortions in cases of rape and to save the life of a would be mother are completely - Constitutionally - justified.

Abortion is not used as a form of contraception. Pregnancy can occur even with responsible contraceptive use. Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control, and that is due more to individual carelessness than to the availability of abortion.

Sex is first and foremost how babies are made.

Human reproduction is taught in school. The vast majority of people know the risks before they take their chances.

The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

No one has the right to infringe upon the rights of another. Once the prebirth child is recognized by the courts as being a "person" women will have to keep it in mind that her child will have a right to it's life,... and factor that fact into whether or not she wants to risk bringing him or her (or both) into being.

Taxpayer dollars are used to enable poor women to access the same medical services as rich women, and abortion is one of these services. Funding abortion is no different from funding a war in the Mideast. For those who are opposed, the place to express outrage is in the voting booth.

November 2010 baby!

Teenagers who become mothers have grim prospects for the future. They are much more likely to leave of school; receive inadequate prenatal care; rely on public assistance to raise a child; develop health problems; or end up divorced.

Using the bad situations of one group of people as an excuse or justification to deny the rights and personhood to another group,....

What is that called?

Somebody help me out.

Like any other difficult situation, abortion creates stress. Yet the American Psychological Association found that stress was greatest prior to an abortion, and that there was no evidence of post-abortion syndrome."

Who knew that killing your child might have some psycological benefits?

I wonder if other child molesters feel better ex post facto?

I thought this list may spark discussion.

Talk is cheap.

 

[molten_dragon]

Looks like it "exists" to me.

She said it can't exist independent of the mother. Reading comprehension fail.

They are both murder. Legality doesn't make the child killed any less dead.

This is only true if a ZEF is a person. No one has been able to prove that it is, so this statement is not true.

Adoption is always an alternative,... regardless of how many or how few choose an alternative,... it remains an alternative just the same.

I have to agree with you on this one.

Abortions are nearly 100 percent fatal to the prebirth children who are being aborted. - Nearly.

YouTube- Gianna Jessen Abortion Survivor in Australia Part 1

Irrelevant. A pre-viability fetus isn't a person but the mother is, ergo her health is what's important.

(sorry in advance to the Catholics and life is sacred crowds)

Abortions in cases of rape and to save the life of a would be mother are completely - Constitutionally - justified.

This argument is extremely inconsistent. If a fetus is a person (with all the rights that entails, including the right to life) then why should the fact that it was created through an act of rape or incest mean that it's okay to violate that right to life? The health of the mother seems to always be justified, since it would be considered self defense. But I'm curious why you think abortion in cases of rape is constitutionally justified.

Sex is first and foremost how babies are made.

Human reproduction is taught in school. The vast majority of people know the risks before they take their chances.

True, but it doesn't matter. People shouldn't be forced to be parents unless they choose to be.

No one has the right to infringe upon the rights of another. Once the prebirth child is recognized by the courts as being a "person" women will have to keep it in mind that her child will have a right to it's life,... and factor that fact into whether or not she wants to risk bringing him or her (or both) into being.

Never gonna happen.

November 2010 baby!

Gotta agree with you on this one. No elective medical procedure should be publicly funded. Ever.

Who knew that killing your child might have some psycological benefits?

I wonder if other child molesters feel better ex post facto?

For someone who makes such a big deal of dictionary definitions, you should know that calling people who get abortions 'child molesters' is completely inaccurate. I can therefore only assume that you meant it as nothing more than flamebait.

Talk is cheap.

Odd coming from someone who talks so much about this subject.

 

[iangb]

Sex is first and foremost how babies are made.

The US public spent almost $400 million on condoms alone in 2005, almost 20% of women aged 15-44 are currently using the contraceptive pill and almost all women aged 15-44 who have ever had sex have used contraception at some point in their lives (62% are currently using it).

There are 42 million sexually active women in the US who do not want to currently become pregnant. The average person will have sex a lot more frequently than they want children.

Sex is not primarilly about baby-making. Society has changed since those times.

 

[remykwp]

I am pro choice, abortion justification is always fun for me to listen to.

 

[cpwill]

...They are both murder. Legality doesn't make the child killed any less dead....

....(sorry in advance to the Catholics and life is sacred crowds)

Abortions in cases of rape and to save the life of a would be mother are completely - Constitutionally - justified.

interesting. so murder is justified, so long as the victims' father was a rapist?

 

[Dav]

"Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

I'm not so sure that reliance on another should make one the same entity as that other. Are siamese twins, who would die if separated, the same entity?

Not to mention, babies can't really live outside of the womb without outside help as well.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

I don't think it is murder, because I'm perfectly fine with early pregnancy abortions. Others might think that it is.

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion, because it remains the woman's choice whether or not to give her child up for adoption. Statistics show that very few women who give birth choose to give up their babies - less than 3% of white unmarried women and less than 2% of black unmarried women.

Adoption is a perfectly reasonable alternative to abortion, and this doesn't really present a good argument against that. If a woman is willing to go as far as killing her unborn baby, chances are she would be okay with giving it away. The small number of women choosing to give away their born babies is a useless statistic, since those women have already chosen not to have an abortion in the first place.

Abortion is a safe medical procedure. The vast majority of women - 88% - who have an abortion do so in their first trimester. Medical abortions have less than 0.5% risk of serious complications and do not affect a woman's health or future ability to become pregnant or give birth.

Not really relevant, since very few people argue against abortion on a health/safety basis alone. I'm also not sure what the first trimester thing is doing there, but keep in mind that 12% of 50 million abortions since 1973 is still about 6 million fetuses killed.

In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

I'm fine with abortion in the case of rape or incest for various reasons.

Abortion is not used as a form of contraception. Pregnancy can occur even with responsible contraceptive use. Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control, and that is due more to individual carelessness than to the availability of abortion.

From what I've seen the number is closer to 50%. In any case, a woman who has sex is perfectly aware of the possible consequences, or so one would assume.

The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

That has to be the worst "slippery slope" argument I've ever seen, and I've seen a few really bad ones. Pro-lifers think that abortion is murder; that is why they want to ban it. Forced contraception or sterilization cannot be connected to that with any rational argument.

Taxpayer dollars are used to enable poor women to access the same medical services as rich women, and abortion is one of these services. Funding abortion is no different from funding a war in the Mideast. For those who are opposed, the place to express outrage is in the voting booth.

From what I've seen, most pro-choicers want abortion to be "legal, safe, and rare". If they want it to be "rare" then they shouldn't want to subsidize it.

Teenagers who become mothers have grim prospects for the future. They are much more likely to leave of school; receive inadequate prenatal care; rely on public assistance to raise a child; develop health problems; or end up divorced.

I agree this is a problem, but, as has been said earlier, "abortion is not a form of contraception".

Like any other difficult situation, abortion creates stress. Yet the American Psychological Association found that stress was greatest prior to an abortion, and that there was no evidence of post-abortion syndrome." Ten Arguments For Abortion and Against Abortion

That's great, but the real argument is that abortion is murder, so this is a bit irrelevant.


There are a few good pro-choice arguments, but none of them have been mentioned in that article.

 

[iangb]

Adoption is a perfectly reasonable alternative to abortion, and this doesn't really present a good argument against that. If a woman is willing to go as far as killing her unborn baby, chances are she would be okay with giving it away. The small number of women choosing to give away their born babies is a useless statistic, since those women have already chosen not to have an abortion in the first place.

I would think that the real problem with adoption (as an alternative to abortion) is that supply would quickly outstrip demand. ~1,000,000 abortions a year, but ~100,000 adoptions per year means that the number of accidental pregnencies would have to be reduced by 90% in order for all 'unwanted' babies to be adopted (or the number of adopters would have to increace by 900%). If the adoption rate was doubled and the 'people wanting an abortion' rate was halved, that would still leave ~300,000 newborns per year filling up adoption agencies.

 

[prometeus]

Adoption is a perfectly reasonable alternative to abortion

Adoption is and can only be an alternative to raising a child.

The only possible alternative to being pregnant is not being pregnant and that can only be accomplished via abortion.

 

[Dav]

I would think that the real problem with adoption (as an alternative to abortion) is that supply would quickly outstrip demand. ~1,000,000 abortions a year, but ~100,000 adoptions per year means that the number of accidental pregnencies would have to be reduced by 90% in order for all 'unwanted' babies to be adopted (or the number of adopters would have to increace by 900%). If the adoption rate was doubled and the 'people wanting an abortion' rate was halved, that would still leave ~300,000 newborns per year filling up adoption agencies.

True, and so there'd be a lot of work to do in terms of encouraging adoption. There's also a lot of restrictions to the process that could do with some changes.

But of those million, I wouldn't mind if a vast majority of them stayed anyways, since they're mostly 1st trimester abortions. It's the later ones I have trouble with.

Adoption is and can only be an alternative to raising a child.

As is abortion.

The only possible alternative to being pregnant is not being pregnant and that can only be accomplished via abortion.

No, it can also be accomplished by giving birth to the child.

 

[prometeus]

As is abortion.

Abortion is the alternative to giving birth.

No, it can also be accomplished by giving birth to the child.

Not at the time a woman wishes.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Abortion is the alternative to giving birth.

By this logic, killing ones wifeis the alternative to divorce. :lol:

 

[kerussll]

By this logic, killing ones wifeis the alternative to divorce. :lol:

That is an alternative.

 

[molten_dragon]

Adoption is and can only be an alternative to raising a child.

And the majority of women have abortions because they don't want children. Ergo adoption is a valid alternative to abortion for women that don't want children.

 

[Chuz Life]

And the majority of women have abortions because they don't want children. Ergo adoption is a valid alternative to abortion for women that don't want children.

FYI,... if they are pregnant,... they already have a child (whether they want or wanted one or not)

 

[iangb]

FYI,... if they are pregnant,... they already have a child (whether they want or wanted one or not)

Not really. Which of these definitions (idioms aside, for reasons that should be obvious) refers to a zygote?

 

[Chuz Life]

Not really. Which of these definitions (idioms aside, for reasons that should be obvious) refers to a zygote?

Women seeking an abortion have to wait a predetermined amount of time past missing their last period.

So, (if you didn't already know) It's not possible (in that circumstance) to abort a zygote.

Try again.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

"Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

Counter:

Human life starts at conception.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

Counter:

The argument against "personhood" is an argument to divert the intent of the Fourteenth Amendment, which does not define "person".

Since the definition of "person" is moral, subjective, and not quantifiable, and hence not subject to science, the convenience of defining "person" to mean "we know what one is when we see it, and we can't see a fetus until it's born, so a fetus isn't a person and we can kill it" is patently self-serviing and circular.

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion, because it remains the woman's choice whether or not to give her child up for adoption. Statistics show that very few women who give birth choose to give up their babies - less than 3% of white unmarried women and less than 2% of black unmarried women.

Adoption is not an abortion issue.

Abortion is a safe medical procedure. The vast majority of women - 88% - who have an abortion do so in their first trimester. Medical abortions have less than 0.5% risk of serious complications and do not affect a woman's health or future ability to become pregnant or give birth.

50% of all people who enter an abortion clinic are killed.

That's the whole purpose of abortion, isn't it?

In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

Agree fully.

When the unborn child is convicted of rape and sentenced to be executed, I will fully concur with the sentencing. However, since the rapist is rarely caught, rarely prosecuted, even more rarely convicted and NEVER sentenced to death, why is a person who didn't exist when the crime was committed being executed routinely without trial or appeal?

Abortion is not used as a form of contraception. Pregnancy can occur even with responsible contraceptive use. Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control, and that is due more to individual carelessness than to the availability of abortion.

The overwhelmining majority of women get abortions because they don't want to have a baby. Call it birth control, not contraception, since that's more accurate, but the whole point of contraception/birth control is to prevent the birth of a living human baby.

The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

The civil rights issue about her controlling her body is her ability to make a "no" stick. It's called "rape". Abortion is about her control over another person's body after she either said "yes" or, in rare cases, was raped.

Taxpayer dollars are used to enable poor women to access the same medical services as rich women, and abortion is one of these services. Funding abortion is no different from funding a war in the Mideast. For those who are opposed, the place to express outrage is in the voting booth.

My tax dollars should not be used to fund any citizens health care. The Constitution does not allow it.

Teenagers who become mothers have grim prospects for the future. They are much more likely to leave of school; receive inadequate prenatal care; rely on public assistance to raise a child; develop health problems; or end up divorced.

All the more reason they should be taught to swallow....er to control themselves and wait until they're more emotionally and financially ready for parenthood.

Like any other difficult situation, abortion creates stress. Yet the American Psychological Association found that stress was greatest prior to an abortion, and that there was no evidence of post-abortion syndrome."

Ten Arguments For Abortion and Against Abortion

Yeah, getting pregnant is stressful.

Abortion is really stressful for the baby, isn't it?
I thought this list may spark discussion.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Abortions in cases of rape and to save the life of a would be mother are completely - Constitutionally - justified.

The only reason for aborting a child of rape is the convenience of the mother.

If you hold that an unborn child is a person in his own right, then the mother's convenience isn't relevant to discussions of the crime that happened to his mother. It's not his fault.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Adoption is and can only be an alternative to raising a child.

The only possible alternative to being pregnant is not being pregnant and that can only be accomplished via abortion.

Oh, no. Women wind up not being pregnant after being pregnant all the time. Eventually that little sucker wants to COME OUT!

Then they're not pregnant anymore.

And that nine-month wait gives them plenty of time to think about what they did wrong to get pregnant in the first place, if they didn't already know.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Not at the time a woman wishes.

Well, she should have thought of that earlier, shouldn't she?

Her failure to think issues through completely is not a good reason to murder someone.

 

[iangb]

Women seeking an abortion have to wait a predetermined amount of time past missing their last period.

So, (if you didn't already know) It's not possible (in that circumstance) to abort a zygote.

Try again.

So? Your statement was that a pregnant woman already 'has a child', nothing about whether she wanted an abortion or not. With that in mind, Pregnancy is defined as "The condition of a woman or female mammal from conception until birth; the condition of being pregnant.", which easilly refers to a zygote.

I will rephrase my question to accomodate your extra terms. Which of these definitions (idioms aside, for reasons that should be obvious) refers to an embryo?

In-post edit: does this imply that you don't consider the morning-after pill to be abortion, despite the fact that it often 'kills' the zygote by preventing implantation?

50% of all people who enter an abortion clinic are killed.

I thought that you just said that 'person' was a moral, subjective and unquantifiable term that (implicitly) should not be used?
As to your claim about 'human life starts at conception' - got any proof of this?

 

[molten_dragon]

FYI,... if they are pregnant,... they already have a child (whether they want or wanted one or not)

No, they don't. You're well aware of it too.