• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Teachers - how much should they get paid?

Obliviously, you guys haven't. When large majorities of kids can't perform at grade level, obviously there's a problem.
...did you think I was arguing that we have no problems with education in this country?

Care to elaborate on how you came to this genius conclusion? LMAO!
 
...did you think I was arguing that we have no problems with education in this country?

Care to elaborate on how you came to this genius conclusion? LMAO!
Did you read your own post?
 
Did you read your own post?
No part of my post says "education has no problems."

Education has problems. Your solution was idiotic. Understand now, or must I dumb this down further?
 
Investing in a quality system of public education is by far one of the most cost-effective investments taxpayers can make. It's obviously good for the quality of life in the community, but it's also an overlooked economic boost. One of the most important factors when major companies consider opening up operations in a state or city is the level of education. That's a factor in being able to recruit talent, but it's also a factor when employees decide whether they want to relocate. Families want their children going to good schools and would rather not pay an arm and a leg to do it if they can just rely on good public schools. Ask any realtor about the relationship between good schools and property values.

Believe it or not, the United States actually pays teachers fairly well, and also believe it or not, our system of education on average, isn't all that bad relative to the rest of the world. Not top 20 but top 30-40. We could obviously do better. The real problem is that the U.S. has some really solid public education systems...and some absolutely atrocious ones as well. And those atrocious systems are often due to environmental/cultural factors that schoolteachers and administrators cannot escape from, as I believe @Josie and @Slyfox696 have already alluded to.

Education is a team sport. That's what a lot of people miss. Blaming teachers and administrators is easy to do, but it's not helpful. They need support, not blame and recliner Monday morning quarterbacking.
 
I'm not reading your blog, especially since I'm guessing you're the only one posting to it.

Part 1:

Of course you won't, but if you did, you'd find the hard evidence you claim is lacking that accountability can make a difference.

Boston has been one of the nation's best testing grounds for school choice. For starters, the Boston Public School system has been regarded for some time as one of the top performing urban traditional public school systems in the nation; so one can fairly say it's at or close to the present day ceiling with regard to traditional school performance. Yet Boston's public charter schools, i.e. schools that must earn their students, outperform them with the same types of students, and it's not even close.

Allow me to link a page of that blog you most definitely do not want to read:


... while several of the links are now outdated, this page summarizes over a dozen different studies and analyses of MA (mostly Boston) charter school performance. All but one show superior student outcomes in charters; the one that didn't called it a draw. Here are some selected quotes from the various academic research articles I cite on that blog (emphasis added):

Compared to the educational gains that charter students would have had in a traditional public school (TPS), the analysis shows on average that students in Massachusetts charter schools make larger learning gains in both reading and mathematics. At the school level, 44 percent of the charter schools have significantly more positive learning gains than their TPS counterparts in reading, while 13 percent of charter schools have significantly lower learning gains. In math, 56 percent of the charter schools studied outperform their TPS peers and 17 percent perform worse.
Using randomized admission lotteries, this paper finds strong positive effects of Boston’s elementary, middle, and high schools for special education and ELL students. Charters generate substantial gains for special needs students in math and English standardized exam scores, English proficiency, and college preparation outcomes. Even the most disadvantaged special needs students perform better in charter schools compared to traditional public schools.
Furthermore, charters remove special needs classifications at a higher rate than traditional public schools and move special education students to more inclusive classrooms.
(continued ...)
 
No, you put forth a position, used terrible logic and unrealistic arguments to try and support it, and after it was exposed in its ignorance, you refused to engage in a discussion things that can actually improve public education, even going so far as to insinuate we should not hold parents accountable for their children.

Just the same tired playbook.

I'm not reading your blog, especially since I'm guessing you're the only one posting to it.

Given your efforts in this thread, I heartily doubt it. Again, your entire position relies on magic. You cannot escape that. You cannot provide a SINGLE way that "competition" somehow magically makes better a school that loses its best students, teachers, administrators, and funding.

You're the same one trick pony I've seen countless times on this forum. You bring nothing original to the debate and when your BS is called out and exposed, you resort to the same tired "well, of course YOU would say that" nonsense the rest of them do. Which is how I know you're not actually interested in improving public schools, you're merely interested in promoting your agenda. Like so many others. For the reasons I stated at the very beginning of our discussion. At the end of the day, you people always expose yourselves.

... Part 2:

Among students attending BPS schools, special education students and ELL students score about 0.87 and 0.39 standard deviations respectively below non-special needs students in math. Since charters generate math gains of 0.266 standard deviations for special education students, one year in a charter reduces the special education achievement gaps by 30.5 percent. ELL students score 0.345 standard deviations higher in charters, narrowing the ELL achievement gap by 88.0 percent.
Setren compared the achievement of special needs lottery applicants in charters and in traditional public schools, and was surprised to discover that across the board, regardless of their level of need, these students are much more successful in charter schools. In fact, for English-language learners, a year in a charter school essentially allowed them to catch up to native English speakers in traditional public schools, erasing much of the achievement gap that typically exists.
on average, charter students in Massachusetts gain an additional one and a half months of learning in reading over their TPS counterparts. In math, the advantage for charter students is about two and a half months of additional learning in one school year. Charter students in Boston gain an additional 12 months in reading and 13 months in math per school year compared to their TPS counterparts.
We examined the score results by student subgroups and find that [charter] gains are largest for minority students but smaller for white students. In middle school, gains are larger for students who score worse on their baseline exams. At both school levels, gains are particularly large for English language learners, though the sample in high school is too small for precise estimates…MCAS analysis leads to an interesting conclusion: those who are most likely to succeed in Boston charter schools are the least likely to enroll in them, especially in middle school …Like earlier studies, this report finds that attending a charter school in Boston dramatically improves students’ MCAS performance and proficiency rates. The largest gains appear to be for students of color and particularly large gains were found for English Language Learners.
Charters generate substantial gains for special needs students in math and English standardized exam scores, English proficiency, and college preparation outcomes. Even the most disadvantaged special needs students perform better in charter schools compared to traditional public schools.


Accountability matters, and it's results like these that you and the union faithful are fighting against.
 
Of course you won't, but if you did, you'd find the hard evidence you claim is lacking that accountability can make a difference.
I'm not reading the unchallenged thoughts of someone who has repeatedly posted things which are less than truthful. You can either respond to the things I've said or not, I couldn't care less. It won't change the fact the things you're saying are stupid and completely unrealistic. When your entire position revolves around magic, it's a terrible position.
 
Back
Top Bottom