Supreme Court blocks, for now, new deportations under 18th century wartime law (1 Viewer)

[ColdHardTruth]

 

[maxparrish]

2 immigration courts deemed it credible he was a gang member which made him deportable. Especially when the new administration labeled foreign gangs as terrorists.

Therein is the administration's mistake. Under US law a person can be deported for "moral turpitude", such as associating with known criminals and gangs. That does not require the AEA, and the attempt to use the AEA is so grossly unfounded the administration has wasted political capital and credibility by its obvious abuse of a law and fanatical unwillingness to correct an error.

What the administration SHOULD have done (if they weren't so chaotic and disorganized) it lay out a national program and Congressional initiative to enforce existing immigration law - starting with everyone who has comitted a crime, and those who missed their court appearences after being paroled into the US (500,000 so far). In the meantime, an honest marketing campaign condemning Biden's violation of plain law regarding "case by case" discretion should be planted in the public conciousness and a demand for judicial enforcement of law and legislative reform demanded.

The Immigration and Naturalization acts are explicit and it is the fault of both certain political interests in Congress and the judiciary to enforce the law. And it is Congress that should have been targeted to correct those gaps and force six democrats in the Senate to not filibuster by whatever political inducements, and get the damned law reenforced.

Instead, the administration is insulting everyone who has an IQ over 90 and who isn't willing to parrot nonsense propoganda.

This administration is all over the map, making enemies of freinds and losing popular clout by his tariff nonsense, attacks on Harvard, pardoning of those who were violent on January 6th, and seemingly random firings of those in DC agencies.

 

[Chomsky]

He already had his due process when he was ruled deportable by an immigration court.

I believe you may be misinformed.

To my understanding - Garcia's last contact with the courts was in 2019 when he was adjudicated as not being deportable to El Salvador, and the court granted a "withholding of removal".

He was then erroneously picked-up by ICE this year on 12 MAR, put on a plane to El Salvador 15 MAR, and imprisoned in CECOT on the 16th (MAR).

If you have any data to the contrary, I'm happy to review it.

(I'm posting the timeline in the excerpts below - sorry for the length)

Here:

An immigration judge barred Abrego Garcia from being sent to El Salvador, saying he proved he had a “well-founded fear of future persecution” from local gangs. The court granted withholding of removal as long as he checked in with authorities annually, something he attested to doing in court filings. This gave him legal status in the United States temporarily and allowed him to receive a work permit.

ICE did not appeal, and Abrego Garcia was released. He returned to his family, where he resumed working and began a five-year apprenticeship program

On March 12, Abrego Garcia was pulled over by Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers while he was with his child on his way home from a worksite in Baltimore.

He was arrested by immigration authorities and transferred to facilities in Maryland, Louisiana and Texas, the declaration said. During that time, Abrego Garcia spoke on the phone with his wife five times. On March 15, he was sent to El Salvador.

On March 16, the Salvadoran president posted a video showing people being loaded off planes and sent to the CECOT megaprison. Vasquez Sura said she recognized her husband in photos and video from the prison where he was being dragged by guards, because of the scars on his head and tattoos.

Source:

What we know about Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador

The government claims he’s a member of the MS-13 gang, which his wife and attorney deny, and deported him to El Salvador despite a judge’s 2019 order barring him from being sent there.

www.nbcnews.com

--

And let's be real honest here. Democrats, like Republicans, support the Constitution only when it's convenient for them.

I can't speak to others, but I do my best to point-out un-Constitutionality & unlawful behaviour when I see it. I'm not sure if I'm a "law & order guy", but I do detest law-breakers.

So join me, and maybe we can shine some illumination in these hallowed halls of DP!

Anyway, I tried my best to lay-out Garcia's situation & timeline. If you find something contrary, I'm willing to take a look at it.

 

[Chomsky]

He wasn’t ruled deportable. He was given protected status and allowed to work. The court explicitly said he can’t he deported
To El Salvador.

Sort of. Republicans as of late, seem to have forgotten basic civics.

My understanding is the bolded ruling was Garcia's final court ruling.

The rulings MAGA is portraying might be from an earlier incident where Garcia was picked-up by local police for standing in front oh a Home Depot hoping for day labour.

After Garcia's final court ruling (deportation hold, temporary asylum), Garcia had no legal contact until ICE erroneously picked him up on 12 MAR this year, put him on a plane to El Salvador on 15 MAR, and was inducted into CECOP on 16 MAR.

It really is a grave injustice. And of course Due Process was withheld.

 

[trumptman]

You appear to be unfamiliar with the cases. I’m not so sure I want to spend time discussing this with you until you’ve dedicated more of your time to studying the cases.

You seem to be unfamiliar with how law works period and these cases in particular. Let me know when you get your law degree out of a different cracker jack box.

 

[Chomsky]

Ah. I assumed it would take legislation - but admit to not knowing

Hah! You & I are too honest.

Other posters would have carried-on for multiple pages, until a mod warning or points were awarded!

 

[cpwill]

Hah! You & I are too honest.

Other posters would have carried-on for multiple pages, until a mod warning or points were awarded!

NO! I am clearly the more uncertain of whether or not my initial assumption was correct!

 

[rahl]

You seem to be unfamiliar with how law works period and these cases in particular. Let me know when you get your law degree out of a different cracker jack box.

What is confusing you? You can’t deport someone without due process, which means they are required to have a court hearing before they can be removed from the country. The Supreme Court just reminded you of this.

 

[Chomsky]

By that time (June 2019), Abrego Garcia had applied for asylum and similar forms of relief in an attempt to prevent his return to El Salvador, where he feared persecution by Barrio 18. (The attorney who filed that application, Lucia Curiel, did not return calls.) Although the asylum claim proved to be time-barred—aliens are required to bring such claims within a year of entering the country—in October 2019 Judge Jones did grant his request for “withholding of removal” based on his “well-founded” fear of persecution by Barrio 18. The government did not appeal, so Jones’s ruling is now final.

Abrego Garcia and MS-13: What Do We Know?

The allegation seems to stem from double hearsay in a document authored by a later suspended police detective.

www.lawfaremedia.org

I can tell you why so many here rant the narrative you refuted:

If you got to websites like Fox News, Breitbart, and Gateway Pundit, or the Fox or Newsmax cable channels, they all are spouting the same narrative we're seeing - as if it's God's own truth.

Those posters singing that narrative here, have in fact victimized themselves by their news source selection.

It's the sad truth

 

[Chomsky]

NO! I am clearly the more uncertain of whether or not my initial assumption was correct!

Haha!

We may be a bit too magnanimous, too!

Anyway, it's always a pleasure - cpwill.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[Chomsky]

Therein is the administration's mistake. Under US law a person can be deported for "moral turpitude", such as associating with known criminals and gangs. That does not require the AEA, and the attempt to use the AEA is so grossly unfounded the administration has wasted political capital and credibility by its obvious abuse of a law and fanatical unwillingness to correct an error.

What the administration SHOULD have done (if they weren't so chaotic and disorganized) it lay out a national program and Congressional initiative to enforce existing immigration law - starting with everyone who has comitted a crime, and those who missed their court appearences after being paroled into the US (500,000 so far). In the meantime, an honest marketing campaign condemning Biden's violation of plain law regarding "case by case" discretion should be planted in the public conciousness and a demand for judicial enforcement of law and legislative reform demanded.

The Immigration and Naturalization acts are explicit and it is the fault of both certain political interests in Congress and the judiciary to enforce the law. And it is Congress that should have been targeted to correct those gaps and force six democrats in the Senate to not filibuster by whatever political inducements, and get the damned law reenforced.

Instead, the administration is insulting everyone who has an IQ over 90 and who isn't willing to parrot nonsense propoganda.

This administration is all over the map, making enemies of freinds and losing popular clout by his tariff nonsense, attacks on Harvard, pardoning of those who were violent on January 6th, and seemingly random firings of those in DC agencies.

There is all of this.

Of course there's also the final court date, that awarded Garcia a "Withholding of Deportation" as well as a work permit!

That is until 5 years later when ICE mistakenly picked him up, and within 72 hours he was on a plane to CEPOC without any Judicial Review or Due Process!

Reference:

What we know about Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador

The government claims he’s a member of the MS-13 gang, which his wife and attorney deny, and deported him to El Salvador despite a judge’s 2019 order barring him from being sent there.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Chomsky]

Excellent post, CaughtInThe!

 

[trouble13]

It's their job, and fully in keeping with the separation of powers. The court normally halts things under review that are of questionable legality.

athe SCOTUS normally does not take any action until the case has fully worked it's way through the lower courts. SCOTUS violated their own protocols to issue their stay order.

They also have stated that this is issue is a political question and under the jurisdiction of the President not the courts.

The courts have already done major harm to their legitimacy. Once they have completely lost it things are going to turn very ugly.

A gov can't rule people who don't recognize their authority as legitimate.

 

[trouble13]

Of course they did. He’s not allowed to deport anyone under the AEA any longer.

Thats called a slap down. He’s not allowed to deport anyone under AEA any longer.

The Supreme Court is specifically empowered to review constitutional questions when a case is brought before them. Why are trumpers so bad at basic middle school level civics?

The only question the courts have any authority to answer is if the person is a citizen or not. Once it is determined they are not, the courts jurisdiction ends. That is what they told state prosecutors when they tried to stop Biden from allowing illegal immigrants into the country too.

The courts know they are in the wrong but are recklessly forging ahead. This isn't going to end well.

 

[SavannahMann]

athe SCOTUS normally does not take any action until the case has fully worked it's way through the lower courts. SCOTUS violated their own protocols to issue their stay order.

They also have stated that this is issue is a political question and under the jurisdiction of the President not the courts.

The courts have already done major harm to their legitimacy. Once they have completely lost it things are going to turn very ugly.

A gov can't rule people who don't recognize their authority as legitimate.

You all are the first bad losers I’ve ever seen. I’m serious when I say that. Bad losers, sure. But bad winners?

You whine that it is wrong for a district court Judge to issue a national order. Now you whine when the Supremes issue it so the case can be examined at the lower level.

 

[trumptman]

What is confusing you? You can’t deport someone without due process, which means they are required to have a court hearing before they can be removed from the country. The Supreme Court just reminded you of this.

What percentage of people do you think already have active deportation orders that simply haven't been acted on?

Map shows nationalities of immigrants awaiting ICE deportation from US

ICE data showed over nearly 1.5 million people had final orders of removal but were not being held by the agency in November.

www.newsweek.com

Newly released data showed nearly 1.5 million immigrants with deportation orders are living in communities across the United States, rather than in custody.

The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) docket, first obtained by Fox News Digital, showed 1,445,549 citizens from 208 countries awaiting removal in November who were not held by the agency.

As I said earlier the lie of jurisdiction has already been kicked out with the DC judge noting he couldn't rule on this matter anymore even if he wanted to because the SC told him so.

The next lie to be kicked out will be DUE PROCESS. They've had their due process. They have pending deportation orders.

 

[Slartibartfast]

athe SCOTUS normally does not take any action until the case has fully worked it's way through the lower courts. SCOTUS violated their own protocols to issue their stay order.

They also have stated that this is issue is a political question and under the jurisdiction of the President not the courts.

The courts have already done major harm to their legitimacy. Once they have completely lost it things are going to turn very ugly.

A gov can't rule people who don't recognize their authority as legitimate.

SCOTUS jumping in like they did instead of following their typical process highlights just how badly the Trump administration screwed up.

If you want to give up on the courts, good luck to you. I hope you make wise decisions going forward though.

 

[uptower]

how long before Trump is sending out Twitter messages about it being Very Bad. Everyone says so.

And "illegal" and someone should "do something". We've seen this playbook.

 

[Nilhus]

7-2, with the extremists Alito and Thomas dissenting.

Will Trump defy SCOTUS again and continue to deport?

My bet would be "yes" though I'd not wager anything serious on it.

Why don't they go to prison for ignoring judge's order? Normal people do. Not talking about Trump, just those under him from high official to the officers, to the plane pilots.

 

[Blue Dog]

President Trump is going to continue to deport WHOMEVER he wants and tell the SC, “Now what?”

 

[WorldWatcher]

The only question the courts have any authority to answer is if the person is a citizen or not. Once it is determined they are not, the courts jurisdiction ends. That is what they told state prosecutors when they tried to stop Biden from allowing illegal immigrants into the country too.

The courts know they are in the wrong but are recklessly forging ahead. This isn't going to end well.

This is not true.

In the real world the Constitution requires the President to faithfully execute the laws of the United States. Laws designed and put in place and Congress has determined there is more to the question than is a person a citizen or not. They (Congress) have the power defined in Article I Section 8 to create law regarding immigration and naturalization. The President takes both an oath to faithfully execute the laws and is required under Article II Section three to to that also.

Judicial jursidiction does not end with whether an individual is a citizen. Since we are talking (in these cases) not deportation, we are talking about El Savlvador being contracted to detain US prisoners in their human storage facilities paid for by US taxpayers.

So, judicial jurisdiction applies to:

#1 Was the Presidents declaration of power under the AEA of 1798 constitutional. Were we at war or invaded by a foreign power. The SCOTUS did NOT address that issue on the mertis sidestepping instead to the jurisdictional issue of location ruling that individuals had to file suite where they were detained (i.e. Texas) instead of D.C.

#2 Whether the indvidiaul got due process in accordance with the law and in the case of AEA whether they belong to the subject class (or classes). As the SCOTUS noted, individuals MUST be awareded reasonable notification and time to challenge their inclusion in the identified classes. If such a determination is made, then they are NOT subject to the AEA declaration. (NOTE: That does not preclude other deportation action if they meet the criteria under another desction of immigration law.)

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

Why don't they go to prison for ignoring judge's order? Normal people do. Not talking about Trump, just those under him from high official to the officers, to the plane pilots.

That is part of Judge Boasberg's finding of Criminal Contempt and those procceedings have started. He found sufficient cause and gave the government two choices:

(A) "purge" (meaning fix) the reason for the contempt [meaning return the US prisoners that we are paying to hold in El Salvador's human storage facility], or

(B) Supply the names of the individuals that knew about the TRO being issued and ordered that it be ignored.

The government appealed Judge Boasbergs order, and currently there is an Administrative Stay (temporary hold, not on the merits) to allow full written briefs to be received by the Appeal Court so they can decide to allow Judge Boasberg to proceed or not.

WW

.
.
.
.
BTW - it's highly unlikely that the pilots were either the decision makers or even knew about the TRO.

W

 

[trouble13]

This is not true.

In the real world the Constitution requires the President to faithfully execute the laws of the United States. Laws designed and put in place and Congress has determined there is more to the question than is a person a citizen or not. They (Congress) have the power defined in Article I Section 8 to create law regarding immigration and naturalization. The President takes both an oath to faithfully execute the laws and is required under Article II Section three to to that also.

Judicial jursidiction does not end with whether an individual is a citizen. Since we are talking (in these cases) not deportation, we are talking about El Savlvador being contracted to detain US prisoners in their human storage facilities paid for by US taxpayers.

So, judicial jurisdiction applies to:

#1 Was the Presidents declaration of power under the AEA of 1798 constitutional. Were we at war or invaded by a foreign power. The SCOTUS did NOT address that issue on the mertis sidestepping instead to the jurisdictional issue of location ruling that individuals had to file suite where they were detained (i.e. Texas) instead of D.C.

#2 Whether the indvidiaul got due process in accordance with the law and in the case of AEA whether they belong to the subject class (or classes). As the SCOTUS noted, individuals MUST be awareded reasonable notification and time to challenge their inclusion in the identified classes. If such a determination is made, then they are NOT subject to the AEA declaration. (NOTE: That does not preclude other deportation action if they meet the criteria under another desction of immigration law.)

WW

The problem is that if it is determined that the AEA is applicable then the courts have usurped the president's article 2 powers. They are telling him he is forbidden from using his authority in case they decide later that they don't agree. They are putting the cart before the horse on a question that has been answered by previous courts who have determined that the courts have no jurisdiction on this matter because it's a political question, not a legal one.

The gov does not need a reason to reject a noncotizen from being given permission to take residency within our borders. Trump is exercising his legal authority granted to him when he won the election. He does not need to prove any of them have done anything illegal.

This leaves the courts without a legal remedy if they rule against him.

I will be some feat for the justices to write a legal opinion justifying their interference with the executive branches power to remove unwanted occupants within our borders.

 

[Variant]

athe SCOTUS normally does not take any action until the case has fully worked it's way through the lower courts. SCOTUS violated their own protocols to issue their stay order.

They also have stated that this is issue is a political question and under the jurisdiction of the President not the courts.

The courts have already done major harm to their legitimacy. Once they have completely lost it things are going to turn very ugly.

A gov can't rule people who don't recognize their authority as legitimate.

The president has already apparently taken the position once these people are removed he will not rectify any mistakes made.

And, the administration has argued that they don't have to follow court orders by a district judge.

So, halting the process to determine if it is legal makes basic common sense.

Due process is not a political issue as you say here but rather a fundamental constitutional right that the president ought to respect as much as the courts.

The only harm to legitimacy here is the president acting beyond the scope of his constitutional authority.