KidRocks
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
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Stinger said:Perhaps because the hard working people who support the war don't see a need to go to Washington and protest and certainly have better things to do than to engage in such silliness.
Sometimes it is best to just stay out of the way and let your opponents just make fools of themselves.
KidRocks said:Perhaps the real reason is that those people are to lazy to prepare and plan for a few hours at a rally to honor and show support for our brave troops. Or that r-wing extremists and dittoheads are mostly lacking ambition or purpose
Perhaps the real reason is that those people don't really give a damn about our brave troops dying in Iraq and that the very poorly attended "Support our Troops" rally proved that beyond a doubt.
Perhaps most of you didn't have to work Sunday and are thus jumping on the bandwagon by claiming work as an excuse to shun your support for our troops.
Perhaps the Bush cheerleaders are just that, cheerleaders from afar the battlefield, cowards who will not enlist and support their fellow troops much less attend a rally in their honor.
And finally, perhaps the rally showed that all dittoheads really care about is President Bush and his holding on to power in the White House and that the troops are secondary or an afterthought, and that it's really all about President Bush and lying.
You think?
KidRocks said:Perhaps the real reason is that those people are to lazy to prepare and plan for a few hours at a rally to honor and show support for our brave troops. Or that r-wing extremists and dittoheads are mostly lacking ambition or purpose
Perhaps the real reason is that those people don't really give a damn about our brave troops dying in Iraq and that the very poorly attended "Support our Troops" rally proved that beyond a doubt.
Perhaps most of you didn't have to work Sunday and are thus jumping on the bandwagon by claiming work as an excuse to shun your support for our troops.
Perhaps the Bush cheerleaders are just that, cheerleaders from afar the battlefield, cowards who will not enlist and support their fellow troops much less attend a rally in their honor.
And finally, perhaps the rally showed that all dittoheads really care about is President Bush and his holding on to power in the White House and that the troops are secondary or an afterthought, and that it's really all about President Bush and lying.
You think?
SouthernDemocrat said:The problem on the pro-war side is that unlike in previous wars, there is no shared sacrifice. There have been no sacrifices asked of anyone other than those who serve and their families.
The horrors of war are kept from the American people.
No one sees the coffins of those who died in service of their country coming back.
The pentagon and the Bush administration have made it a policy to hide the horrors of war as best they can from the American people.
They felt like by doing so that they would hold support for the war. That of course was not the case. I think that if people actually saw the horrors of war, saw the coffins coming back, and saw the injured coming back and how many are maimed for life, then its quite possible that we may have had more lasting support for this war than we have. Either way, the realities of war ought to be something that all Americans are exposed to.
danarhea said:Supporting the troops cuts both ways. I wonder how many out of that 400 bothered to send a care package to the troops while they were using them as political footballs? I am against the war, but I send one every 3 months, just like clockwork. They deserve that. Everyone who is for AND against the war can show their support, not only in words, but in deed too.
Stinger said:And that sacrifice gives one a higher authority to speak? What exactly are you saying.
Really, so you don't know about the war?
I think the causulaties, which have been low, are well known and well publisized.
They don't control where the press goes there, what they report or what pictures they show. But I am amazed that you think you don't know what is going on over there.
And what is it you are hoping that will accomplish, victory for our enemies? You seem to want the government to do things that you believe will lower our morale and our will to fight those who would kill us and aid those who would kill us.
SouthernDemocrat said:I am saying that this has been a sanitized war.
However, I do know that as a country, we have not been asked to make one sacrifice for the war.
So no, what was probably a Republican PR stunt of 400 people for a "pro-war / support the troups" rally really has no moral authority.
Its easy to say "I support the war and the president", all you have to do is say it.
Agree with Sheehan or not, she did camp out in a ditch for a month in 100 degree heat in front of the President's ranch
and she did loose her son in this war?
What has the pro-war crowd done other than say they are for the war, for the troops?
Nothing. Its not like World War II, when people made do with less and women who never worked before went to work for the effort.
They used to say then if you ride alone, you ride with Hitler. Why doesnt the president say that if you ride alone, you ride with the terrorists
If we conserved more, we would not be so beholden to the Middle East.
Stinger said:What is "sanitized" about it. We've had imbedded reporters all along. We have daily footage of every explosion that occours. We have a daily listing of every soldier killed over there whether in action or by an accident that could happend anywhere. We have the major networks doing their daily diatribes against the war claiming how horrible we are.
I'm sorry but perhaps you need to pay more attention. Do you have any idea how the news was "managed" during WW2 versus the freedom the press has to report EVERYTHING now?
What do you call sending our young men and women there to risk their lives, you insult them by your statement.
A statement for which you have no basis. Offer your proof that it was a Republican PR stunt anymore than the anti-americian rally was a Democrat PR stunt.
But alot harder to say you don't.
Which was pretty stupid on her part.
And she has our sympathies, but it gives her no higher standing on the issue.
So they should go stand in a ditch and that would make things equal. What folly.
So those of us who support the war should do less with what and to what end and women who don't work should go to work and then you'd be happy.
He basically just did that and the left lampooned him for it.
If we drill more, if we persue nuclear we won't have to be so beholden, are you willing to make that "sacrifice"?
This how it was done until the media became global and invaded the military...Smart people knew this was being done all along...Some believe that "war is hell" must be some sort of new revelation because all of those previous wars were so "good & just"...Stinger said:I'm sorry but perhaps you need to pay more attention. Do you have any idea how the news was "managed" during WW2 versus the freedom the press has to report EVERYTHING now?
SouthernDemocrat said:OPEC has 70% of the World's oil reserves; we have less than 5%. Our sustained possible domestic oil production peaked 30 years ago and no amount of drilling can possibly make a difference there. You cannot drill your way out of energy independence with numbers like those.
Anyone who was around during Vietnam would tell you that this is a sanitized war. You saw a lot more then than you do today.
Of course the people who go over there are making sacrifices.
The thing is, most of the people I know that are big on this war, don’t have kids over there and don’t plan on going to Iraq themselves either.
If President Bush would have told us 4 years ago, that one of the biggest things we can do to help defeat Middle East terrorism is to carpool, buy more fuel efficient vehicles, and turn the thermostat down a degree or two, I would be will to bet that a large number of Americans would have done just that.
Think of the message that we would sent the terrorists if we had done things like that.
Think of the resolve that would have conveyed.
They see our support for the war as a mile wide and an inch deep and they are absolutely right.
It’s fine for the warmongers to send other peoples kids off to fight, but they certainly don’t want to make any sacrifices themselves.
Make no mistake about it, this is not a war for oil, but if it were not for oil, we would not be fighting it.
So those radicals who do camp out in 100 degree heat, at least they have some true conviction for their cause. A lot of those on the other side are just a joke, words but nothing else. Nothing but a billboard for the culture of greed and “meism”.
SouthernDemocrat said:I am saying that this has been a sanitized war. Maybe thats a good thing, maybe thats a bad thing. I dont know. However, I do know that as a country, we have not been asked to make one sacrifice for the war. So no, what was probably a Republican PR stunt of 400 people for a "pro-war / support the troups" rally really has no moral authority. Its easy to say "I support the war and the president", all you have to do is say it. Agree with Sheehan or not, she did camp out in a ditch for a month in 100 degree heat in front of the President's ranch and she did loose her son in this war? What has the pro-war crowd done other than say they are for the war, for the troops? Nothing. Its not like World War II, when people made do with less and women who never worked before went to work for the effort. They used to say then if you ride alone, you ride with Hitler. Why doesnt the president say that if you ride alone, you ride with the terrorists? If we conserved more, we would not be so beholden to the Middle East. I mean that is just an example of the shared sacrifice that ought to be asked of Americans in a time of war.
Calm2Chaos said:And holding a sign condeming your country it's president and or it's soldiers shows something?
Sheehan statyed in a hotel at night to the best of my knowledge.. So I am still waiting to see or hear exactly what she sacrificed?
Other then hold signs and complain was has the anti war crowd done? Other then bolster the people that are killing soldiers I mean. Other then call US soldiers terrorist and the president hitler and a nazi. The majority of these people are the same ones that will protest anything that occurs. There professional protesters IMO. They aren't going to stand up and fight for anything. They think that everything they enjoy was handed out and nothing had to be fought for.
SouthernDemocrat said:Her son maybe??:roll:
My whole point is that in every other war we as Americans, the entire country, have been asked to make sacrifices to help the war effort. In this war nothing has been asked of anyone other than the families of those who are serving and those who are serving. Hence my using the phrase support for the war has always been a mile wide and an inch deep.
One of the best things we can do for the war on terrorism is to use less oil from the region. The best way to ensure doing that is for every American to do their best to conserve oil. That means if a fuel efficient vehicle is practical for you, then don't buy a big honking SUV just for the status symbol of it. If you can carpool, do so. If you can turn your thermostat down a degree or two, do so. Sticking a support the troops sticker on your SUV is empty resolve. If you want to scare the hell out of the terrorists and their supporters, make some real changes make some sacrifices show that this generation of Americans is just as resolved as the generation that saved the world in World War II.
Like the Bible says in the Book of James, "Faith without works is empty". That meant of course that its not enough just to say something, you have to actually make changes in the way you live in order for your words to have some meaning. I think Sheehan is a radical, she has views that are well to the left of mine, but she camped out in a ditch in the Texas heat for a month because she believed in something. That is faith with works. Putting a support the troops sticker on an SUV you bought as nothing more than a status symbol and making no sacrifices for the war effort all is empty support. A nation full of blowhard chicken hawks is not support.
SouthernDemocrat said:Her son maybe??:roll:
My whole point is that in every other war we as Americans, the entire country, have been asked to make sacrifices to help the war effort. In this war nothing has been asked of anyone other than the families of those who are serving and those who are serving. Hence my using the phrase support for the war has always been a mile wide and an inch deep.
One of the best things we can do for the war on terrorism is to use less oil from the region. The best way to ensure doing that is for every American to do their best to conserve oil. That means if a fuel efficient vehicle is practical for you, then don't buy a big honking SUV just for the status symbol of it. If you can carpool, do so. If you can turn your thermostat down a degree or two, do so. Sticking a support the troops sticker on your SUV is empty resolve. If you want to scare the hell out of the terrorists and their supporters, make some real changes make some sacrifices show that this generation of Americans is just as resolved as the generation that saved the world in World War II.
Like the Bible says in the Book of James, "Faith without works is empty". That meant of course that its not enough just to say something, you have to actually make changes in the way you live in order for your words to have some meaning. I think Sheehan is a radical, she has views that are well to the left of mine, but she camped out in a ditch in the Texas heat for a month because she believed in something. That is faith with works. Putting a support the troops sticker on an SUV you bought as nothing more than a status symbol and making no sacrifices for the war effort all is empty support. A nation full of blowhard chicken hawks is not support.
Stinger said:Fact: Known oil reserves go up every year. And we don't have to become indepentdent to put pressure on OPEC, just the threat of cutting their sales will do that job but as long as we have idiots running around crying about ANWAR OPEC can sit back and laught and raise their price. As long as California and Florida refuse to allow offshore drilling OPEC can continue to control the market.. And note I also included nuclear energy into the picture.
Stinger said:Well DUH there was a lot more to be seen and yes I was around those days, draft number 327. This is the MOST covered war in our history, if you don't know what is going on over there it is only because you are not paying attention.
Stinger said:And they ARE this country.
Stinger said:So? We don't have many people over there realitive to other conflicts. Would you be happier if we had more people over there so that more people here would have some effect out of it? What is your point? Does having a kid over there give you a higher authority to speak?
Stinger said:You think that is why the terrorist attacked us? You think carpooling would have made a hill of beans? Shear folly.
Stinger said:Think of the message it would send to the terrorist and potential terrorist if they saw a united front here and overwhelming support for their deaths. Instead they see idiots like Sheehan and listen to appeasors and those without the will to fight and they feel empowered and believe they can defeat and they just might be right.
Stinger said::rofl yeah I can see the terrorist over there plotting against us and one runs into the room shouting "The Americans are car pooling the Americans are car pooling! We must give up! All is lost!" Shear folly.
Stinger said:Who are they suppose to send? And they were all volunteers. And quite frankly I believe those who do sent people off to fight war feel the sacrifice of every death. Don't you?
Stinger said:You don't make sense. But the fact is this is a war about many things. Yes it is about who controls the energy reserves in the middle east, terrorist and dictators or free people. It is about extremist Muslim terrorist who do not want anyone to be free including you. It is about a free an open society in the middle east which effects us all.
Stinger said:So you believe people who camp out in 100 degree to make a point should make our foriegn policy? That is what qualifies them? Why don't they just convince enough people to their viewpoint and then elect people who will carry it out? Seems a lot smarter to me.
Calm2Chaos said:She sacrificed her son? You mean she sent him to iraq? OK i am sorry . I thought that her son volunteered for the millitary then reenlisted. I was unaware that she herself shipped this boy to war.
I didn't think there was anything that she actually sacrificed, her son on the other hand is a different story.
And using less oil has nothing to do with why they hate us and want to kill us. They target woman and children in there own country. How much oil did they use. They targeted innocent men in a work line, were they using a ot of oil. They hate people that disagree with them so they kill them. They hate infidels, so they kill them. If I used no oil... I would still be an infidel. And there holy playbook says that I should die if I am so.
Kandahar said:Of course we need to become energy independent, but SouthernDemocrat is absolutely right that drilling for oil in the United States will change things a very negligible amount compared to the amount of oil we need.
Nuclear energy, of course, is a good idea and we should have been using it for decades.
For the more short-term future, we can't simply threaten to "cut their sales," because OPEC knows that we need oil. The only way we can truly threaten their sales is by a long-term policy toward energy independence.
That's not true. Daily reports of car bombs do not convey the full picture. You can read about a car bomb without seeing the dead bodies and listening to the family members on TV. You can see the name of a dead soldier flash across your screen without knowing anything about him.
The fact is that this war IS extremely sanitized. Many returning soldiers are amazed at the complete indifference (and unawareness) that the United States is at war.
You question why journalists should report more horrors of war, which you claim will lower our morale and aid the insurgents. My answer is BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH.
If Americans are to be expected to make an informed decision about the war, they should see it exactly as it is, not as the Bush Administration wishes it was.
The fact is that Americans are extremely wishy-washy.
The only reason this war ever got the support of 70% of people in the first place was because they assumed that this war wouldn't affect them at all. Most people simply do not care.
Last time I checked, this country had 300 million people. There are only about 100,000 in Iraq.
Well, NOT having a kid over there doesn't necessarily negate one's views if those views are well-informed (which yours are not).
However, yes, people with children over there are more likely to see the sacrifices that war requires. It's easy to be a chickenhawk when someone else is doing the killing, dying, worrying, and paying for the war.
It's much harder to support any old conflict when you actually have to sacrifice for it.
It's not WHY they attacked us. But oil conservation could certainly prevent future attacks by cutting off the main source of funding to terrorists.
Yeah, God forbid we have freedom of thought in this country. Clearly the best thing for us to do is march in lockstep behind any decision the Bush Administration makes, no matter how stupid.
Hell no. You've got to be kidding me. Do you honestly believe that George Bush is as upset by every death in Iraq as the families? Do you honestly believe that he even cares, other than maybe a vague sense that American deaths are bad?
You're living in denial.
We're paying a lot more to occupy Iraq than we'd have to pay for energy if we didn't control the oil fields, so that argument doesn't hold.
There were no terrorists in Iraq prior to the invasion, so that argument doesn't hold. In fact, that's an argument AGAINST the war since there ARE terrorists there now.
Iraq was a secular state prior to the invasion, so the extremist Muslim argument doesn't hold.
Do you know anything at all about Iraq? It seems as if you just pulled this out of your ass, or more likely, from FOX News.
That's precisely what they're trying to do by camping out in 100 degree weather.
scottyz said:Considering the polls show little support for the war and little confindence in Bush's leadership of the war, the small turnout isn't a surprise.
Stinger said:Do you support their mission? Do you hope they are victorious?
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