Support for U.S. troops rally draws a massive... 400

[cnredd]

Let me reword your question.

q. Do you support the chickenhawks who sent other peoples' children to die in an unnecessary war?

a. No.

"Unnecessary" is only an opinion...

I'm sure you could say the same thing about almost every, if not every war that was ever held...

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I'm sorry but that is simply not the case. The known reserves in ANWAR are enough to offset the Saudi's for estimates between 10 to 15 years. Just the known reserves and as noted known reservers throughout the world go UP every year. That's enough to pressure the middle east supplies.

Actually, it is the case. No matter the total up there, thet rate at which it can be extracted is limited by the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline System (TAPS). This puts the rate at which the oil can be brought to market at less than a mil bpd. In addition, it'll take about a decade to get the oil to start coming in. So we're talking about less than about 4% (depending on how usage rates grow between now and then) of US consumption, or about an hours worth of petro-products a day.

Increasing fuel efficiency and a some more folks riding the train and bikes would have a similar level of impact more quickly.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

"Unnecessary" is only an opinion...

I'm sure you could say the same thing about almost every, if not every war that was ever held...

No, I think this one, the Spanish American War,and Vietnam are about the only ones that fit that description.

I can't see how anyone could reasonably argue that this was not an elective war.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

What do you think "they hate us for our freedom"? They hate us because we are there in the Middle East. We would not have to be there so much if we didnt need the oil.

They hate us because the Koran says to. And thats more then enough reason for them. Bin Laden is pissed because the Saudis asked us to do security and not his band of terrorist and kid killers.

 

[Stinger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
Do you support their mission? Do you hope they are victorious?

Let me reword your question..............

Trying to dodge the question I see. Try again.

Do you support their mission? Do you hope they are victorious?

 

[Moderate]

I like many people, were for the war when it was argued that it should happen. I believed that the President was right and that Saddam was a threat to us and that he possessed WMD's (I hate this term).

Now I feel like an idiot for defending his policy for invadeing Iraq. There were no WMD's and therefor there was no significant threat to the US.

I dont support this war now and believe that a plan should be implimented that would bring our troops home as soon as possible.

Only two conclusions I can draw from Bush and his reasonning for going to war.
1) He knew that Iraq didn't have WMD's and wanted to go to war anyway.

2) He didn' have his intelligence departments do enough recon to know
without a doubt that Iraq had WMD's

Either way it shows that Bush shouldn't be President in my eye's.

And for all you Neo-Con's that want to say we are unpatriotic for being agaisnt the war, all I can say is that you are the most unAmerican people here. We have every right to show our dissgust for this man and his administration. It does not mean we hate America, it means we hate Bush.

I don't understand why you can be so blinded by some one so dum. He inspires nothing but you follow him like a dog where ever he goes. He has zero charisma.

I can't wait for the day that the opinoin of this ENTIRE country is that the people who supported Bush were retarded, and that the textbooks written in the future will teach our children that this time in American politics was a Dark Age, where nothing substantial was accomplised and that in some cases we regressed to a lower point in our society and our world standing.

 

[Stinger]

Actually, it is the case. No matter the total up there, thet rate at which it can be extracted is limited by the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline System (TAPS). This puts the rate at which the oil can be brought to market at less than a mil bpd. In addition, it'll take about a decade to get the oil to start coming in. So we're talking about less than about 4% (depending on how usage rates grow between now and then) of US consumption, or about an hours worth of petro-products a day.

Actually it is the case, we are not limited by only transferring by the existing pipeline, and so what if it takes 5 - 10 years, let's get started too bad we didn't get started last year or the year before or the year befoe. That arguement is specious. The known reservers are enough to offset what we get from the Saudi's and those are just the known reserves.

(WASHINGTON, DC) - Interior Secretary Gale Norton said that oil reserves in the far Northern Coastal Plain of ANWR represent the nation's largest single prospect for future oil production - greater than any state, including Texas and Louisiana.
Secretary Norton shared statistics about ANWR's energy potential with members of the U.S. House Resource Committee during testimony this morning on Capitol Hill.
"The Administration firmly believes that we can develop energy at home while protecting the environmental values we all hold dear," Secretary Norton said. "The Coastal Plain of ANWR's 1002 area is the nation's single greatest onshore oil reserve. The USGS estimates that it contains a mean expected value of 10.4 billion barrels of technically recoverable oil. To put that into context, the potential daily production from ANWR's 1002 area is larger than the current daily onshore oil production of any of the lower 48 states."
"ANWR could produce nearly 1.4 million barrels of oil, while Texas produces just more than one million barrels a day, California just less than one million barrels a day and Louisiana produces slightly more than 200,000 barrels a day."


We current get about 1.5 billion barrels a day from the Saudi's. And as I stated, we don't need to get all of it before the economics hit the Saudi's.

 

[Moderate]

They hate us because the Koran says to. And thats more then enough reason for them.

That is a radical interpretation of the Koran. If every Muslim believed that we would be in a total war with the Muslim population.

The same thing happens to the Bible, some nut job takes a quote, wraps it around his own hate and makes religous dogma out of it.

 

[Moderate]

Actually it is the case, we are not limited by only transferring by the existing pipeline, and so what if it takes 5 - 10 years, let's get started too bad we didn't get started last year or the year before or the year befoe. That arguement is specious. The known reservers are enough to offset what we get from the Saudi's and those are just the known reserves.

This will only prolong the problem, we need to get off of oil not find more of it. I'd rather spend millions over a decade getting off of oil then spend millions trying to stay on it.

Once we're not dependent on oil we won't be dependent on the Middle East at all. That would be a much better idea.

Why destroy a Wild Life Refuge and spend billions when we will be in the same situation 30 years from now? :doh

 

[Calm2Chaos]

That is a radical interpretation of the Koran. If every Muslim believed that we would be in a total war with the Muslim population.

The same thing happens to the Bible, some nut job takes a quote, wraps it around his own hate and makes religous dogma out of it.

Not that radical. The kuran says to kill infidels. We are infidels. They quote the kuran for reasons that tey want to destroy us.

By the way.. That might be why they are called extremist

As far as the bible is concerned. As soon as they start blowing people up around the world we will cast a wary eye to them also

 

[vergiss]

Um. What about the Inquisitors and the like in the Middle Ages? They twisted the Bible to justify persecuting non-Christians and so-called "witches".

 

[Moderate]

Um. What about the Inquisitors and the like in the Middle Ages? They twisted the Bible to justify persecuting non-Christians and so-called "witches".

Adding to waht ^^^^ said...

What about the KKK, or radical Pro-lifers that have tried to burn clinics down and kill doctors?

Or bible thumpers who attack gays?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Um. What about the Inquisitors and the like in the Middle Ages? They twisted the Bible to justify persecuting non-Christians and so-called "witches".

I keep forgetting we are living in the time of crusades. And althis time I thought it was the 21st cetury. Yes hundreds of years ago this occured. But today, the time we live in it does not. Things have changed and people have become a little more tolerant of things, some people anyway

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Adding to waht ^^^^ said...

What about the KKK, or radical Pro-lifers that have tried to burn clinics down and kill doctors?

Or bible thumpers who attack gays?

Please do not compare the mass murder performed by these terrorist to the KKK or some other minor kooks. None of which are even remotely close to the size and posses the desire and or ability to wipe out entire communities and or cities. Sorry but I can not and will not compare the two because they are not even similar in any aspect ecxept 1.

 

[Moderate]

Please do not compare the mass murder performed by these terrorist to the KKK or some other minor kooks. None of which are even remotely close to the size and posses the desire and or ability to wipe out entire communities and or cities. Sorry but I can not and will not compare the two because they are not even similar in any aspect ecxept 1.

I agree that one has done more damage than the other but it doesn't make it any less wrong, you wanted to know of groups where the Bible was used similiar to the way that fundamentalists have used the Koran and I gave you examples.

Again, if every Muslim believed the way that you say they do we'd be in a lot more trouble then we are now, so either way your own interpretation of the Koran and how it is used are wrong.

 

[Moderate]

Koran

Furthermore, the Koran does not call us infidels. Christians and Jews are considered 'people of the book' and were protected during ancient times and even during the Ottoman Empire. They had religous freedom and were allowed to live even by there religous laws as long as they paid tribute to the Sultan. This is more than anyone can say about Europe at the same time.

Now the Koran has not changed since those times, so written in its pages we are not infidels but 'people of the book', only fanatics interpret the koran the way you say.


Again you are wrong.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I agree that one has done more damage than the other but it doesn't make it any less wrong, you wanted to know of groups where the Bible was used similiar to the way that fundamentalists have used the Koran and I gave you examples.

Again, if every Muslim believed the way that you say they do we'd be in a lot more trouble then we are now, so either way your own interpretation of the Koran and how it is used are wrong.

OK.

1.) I did not ask about when the bible was used in similar ways. I am aware of the inquisition and the crusades. What I said was

As far as the bible is concerned. As soon as they start blowing people up around the world we will cast a wary eye to them also

. I think this statement is pretty clear in its meaning of present day. If not my apologize.

2.) I never said it was every muslim. I actually said

By the way.. That might be why they are called extremist

. An extremeist being someone outside the norm. I understand that it's not all muslims. I just can't tell the difference between the two.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Koran

Furthermore, the Koran does not call us infidels. Christians and Jews are considered 'people of the book' and were protected during ancient times and even during the Ottoman Empire. They had religous freedom and were allowed to live even by there religous laws as long as they paid tribute to the Sultan. This is more than anyone can say about Europe at the same time.

Now the Koran has not changed since those times, so written in its pages we are not infidels but 'people of the book', only fanatics interpret the koran the way you say.


Again you are wrong.

OK so what your saying is the Koran does not say that unless you follow it you are an infidel. And as such you should be killed, eliminated, smited... whatever you want to cal it? If I don't believe what they believe I am a non believer therefore an infidel therefore I should be killed.

Does the Koran tell you not to take Jews and christians as friends? or are they supposed to be pals...

 

[KWAM]

They hate us because the Koran says to. And thats more then enough reason for them. Bin Laden is pissed because the Saudis asked us to do security and not his band of terrorist and kid killers.

Why arent American Muslims killing other Americans then? I have never seen a Koran with the word American in it have you? Let me stop you right there because I know you are gonna say something about "infidels" but Osama is very clear why he hates America and being an unbeliever in the Koran isnt one of his reasons. Also Osama is pissed because the U.S. said they would leave after defending the House of Saud from the threat Saddam posed to them after invading Quwait (another lie posed by the American Goverment) yet they never left Perhaps he was thinking that since he and his "band of terrorists" were used against the Soviets then he could also be used against his enemy Saddam

 

[Moderate]

They hate us because the Koran says to. And thats more then enough reason for them.

The Koran does mention infidels but Christians and Jews are the exceptions. If the Koran said to hate all Christians and Jews like you said it does we, again, would be in a lot more trouble then we are in.

When you say the Koran tells them to hate us then your saying that islam teaches to hate us and therefor Muslims are told to hate us. This is not the case.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Why arent American Muslims killing other Americans then? I have never seen a Koran with the word American in it have you? Let me stop you right there because I know you are gonna say something about "infidels" but Osama is very clear why he hates America and being an unbeliever in the Koran isnt one of his reasons. Also Osama is pissed because the U.S. said they would leave after defending the House of Saud from the threat Saddam posed to them after invading Quwait (another lie posed by the American Goverment) yet they never left Perhaps he was thinking that since he and his "band of terrorists" were used against the Soviets then he could also be used against his enemy Saddam

Again.. I have never said All muslims are terrorist.

Your right it doesn't say AMERICANS in there.. In that case this must be a big misunderstanding. They are really happy and don't think we are infidels....LMAO Your right I am going to say something about infidels....But we are not just fighting Osama. We have a large contingent of the muslim population in the ME that are terrorist. By terorrist I am including the throat cutters and kid killers along with those that give them food money and safe haven, even if they never pulled a trigger in there life. There is a large extremist contingent within the "religion of peace" that knowingly and actively target civilians woman and children to kill. And are doing so on the word of the koran for Jihad. These animals are going to want the deaths of non believers for eternity.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

The Koran does mention infidels but Christians and Jews are the exceptions. If the Koran said to hate all Christians and Jews like you said it does we, again, would be in a lot more trouble then we are in.

K.5:54, 'O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends, they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people.'

Explain that to me then?^^^^^

They don't like nor want the jew or christian around. Nor does there god...

The koran does tell them to hate and or kill us. If you can't read that then you are blind IMO. And if you can read and still don't understand then you are Wrong

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

 

[Moderate]

K.5:54, 'O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends, they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people.'

Explain that to me then?^^^^^

They don't like nor want the jew or christian around. Nor does there god...

The koran does tell them to hate and or kill us. If you can't read that then you are blind IMO. And if you can read and still don't understand then you are Wrong

Associations with Christians and Jews was undermined, those areas were protected in secluded neighborhoods and towns.

I don't have a copy of the Koran out in front of me but as soo as I do I will find the part that describes what I'm talking about.

Also Unbelievers does not refer to Christians and Jews.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Associations with Christians and Jews was undermined, those areas were protected in secluded neighborhoods and towns.

I don't have a copy of the Koran out in front of me but as soo as I do I will find the part that describes what I'm talking about.

Also Unbelievers does not refer to Christians and Jews.

It refers to unbelievers.. Thats the big word with the "U" in the beginging. And the simple fact is they have no problem killing anybody that does not believe exactly what they do. This includes other muslims, christians, jews, woman, chldren.. ect ect...