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Support for Terror Wanes Among Muslim Publics

cnredd

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I was reading an article from Michael Barone in US News & World Report(8/29/05) and something stuck out which goes against the "common knowledge" which is thrown at us by the left.

For those who wish to keep their blinders on...please do not read any further...

Polls in the United States may show that Americans have become less supportive of our efforts in Iraq as the suicide bombings and roadside-bomb attacks continue. But the Pew polls in these Muslim countries show that those attacks have moved Muslim opinion against the terrorists and toward democracy.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/050829/29barone.htm

For those who go through life slurping down every bias idea a slanted website has to offer(truthout.org, mediaresearch.com, etc.), Pew Research is THEE most non-partisan survey group known to man. Their objectivity is leaps and bounds above all others. As per their first statement on their homepage...

The Pew Research Center is a non-partisan "fact tank" that provides information on the issues, attitudes and trends shaping America and the world. It does not take positions on policy issues.

Since Mr. Barone pointed us, the readers, toward Pew as the source for his claim, I went to their website to get more information...

What you are about to see flies in the face of all that "the left" wants to believe...

I will throw out "snippets" of info, as the article and subdivisions can be lenghty...I urge all to go to the site itself for a full report...

Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Publics
Concerns over Islamic extremism, extensive in the West even before this month's terrorist attacks in London, are shared to a considerable degree by the publics in several predominantly Muslim nations surveyed. Nearly three-quarters of Moroccans and roughly half of those in Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia see Islamic extremism as a threat to their countries. At the same time, most Muslim publics are expressing less support for terrorism than in the past. Confidence in Osama bin Laden has declined markedly in some countries and fewer believe suicide bombings that target civilians are justified in the defense of Islam
(see chart #1)

The polling also finds that in most majority-Muslim countries surveyed, support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence in defense of Islam has declined significantly. In Turkey, Morocco and Indonesia, 15% or fewer now say such actions are justifiable. In Pakistan, only one-in-four now take that view (25%), a sharp drop from 41% in March 2004. In Lebanon, 39% now regard acts of terrorism as often or sometimes justified, again a sharp drop from the 73% who shared that view in 2002. A notable exception to this trend is Jordan, where a majority (57%) now says suicide bombings and other violent actions are justifiable in defense of Islam.

As in past Global Attitudes surveys, publics in predominantly Muslim countries believe that democracy can work in their countries. Large and growing majorities in Morocco (83%), Lebanon (83%), Jordan (80%) and Indonesia (77%) – as well as pluralities in Turkey (48%) and Pakistan (43%) – say democracy can work well and is not just for the West.(see Chart #4)

Outside the Muslim world, the Pew survey finds that in countries such as India, Russia, Germany and the Netherlands, concerns about Islamic extremism – both within their own borders and around the world – are running high. Worries over Islamic extremism are nearly as high in France and Spain. Concerns about terrorism at home and around the world run parallel in only three countries, Russia, India and Spain. Before the London terrorist attacks, Americans and Britons expressed more concern about extremism around the world than they did at home(See Chart #5)

Majorities in Great Britain, France, Canada, the U.S. and Russia, as well as pluralities in Spain and Poland, say they have a somewhat or very favorable view of Muslims. In the West, only among the Dutch and Germans does a majority or plurality hold unfavorable views of Muslims (51% and 47%, respectively).

And the coup de grat...

While support for suicide bombings and other terrorist acts has fallen in most Muslim-majority nations surveyed, so too has confidence in Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. In Lebanon, just 2% report some or a lot of confidence in bin Laden, and in Turkey only 7% do so.

In Morocco, just 26% of the public now say they have a lot or some confidence in bin Laden, down sharply from 49% in May 2003. In Indonesia, the public is now about evenly split, with 35% saying they place at least some confidence in bin Laden and 37% saying they have little or none; that represents a major shift since 2003, when 58% expressed confidence in bin Laden
.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

cnredd's note..."I couldn't upload all seven charts...they are available at the website"....

If the left looks hard enough, they will find little morsels to hang on to...but there is OVERWHELMING evidence that the "opening of eyes" in the Middle Eastern world is slowly, but surely, taking effect.

"For those who understand no explanation is needed, ...For those who don't none will do". - Jerry Lewis
 

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MiamiFlorida

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cnredd said:
I was reading an article from Michael Barone in US News & World Report(8/29/05) and something stuck out which goes against the "common knowledge" which is thrown at us by the left.

For those who wish to keep their blinders on...please do not read any further...

Polls in the United States may show that Americans have become less supportive of our efforts in Iraq as the suicide bombings and roadside-bomb attacks continue. But the Pew polls in these Muslim countries show that those attacks have moved Muslim opinion against the terrorists and toward democracy.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/050829/29barone.htm

For those who go through life slurping down every bias idea a slanted website has to offer(truthout.org, mediaresearch.com, etc.), Pew Research is THEE most non-partisan survey group known to man. Their objectivity is leaps and bounds above all others. As per their first statement on their homepage...

The Pew Research Center is a non-partisan "fact tank" that provides information on the issues, attitudes and trends shaping America and the world. It does not take positions on policy issues.

Since Mr. Barone pointed us, the readers, toward Pew as the source for his claim, I went to their website to get more information...

What you are about to see flies in the face of all that "the left" wants to believe...

I will throw out "snippets" of info, as the article and subdivisions can be lenghty...I urge all to go to the site itself for a full report...

Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Publics
Concerns over Islamic extremism, extensive in the West even before this month's terrorist attacks in London, are shared to a considerable degree by the publics in several predominantly Muslim nations surveyed. Nearly three-quarters of Moroccans and roughly half of those in Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia see Islamic extremism as a threat to their countries. At the same time, most Muslim publics are expressing less support for terrorism than in the past. Confidence in Osama bin Laden has declined markedly in some countries and fewer believe suicide bombings that target civilians are justified in the defense of Islam
(see chart #1)

The polling also finds that in most majority-Muslim countries surveyed, support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence in defense of Islam has declined significantly. In Turkey, Morocco and Indonesia, 15% or fewer now say such actions are justifiable. In Pakistan, only one-in-four now take that view (25%), a sharp drop from 41% in March 2004. In Lebanon, 39% now regard acts of terrorism as often or sometimes justified, again a sharp drop from the 73% who shared that view in 2002. A notable exception to this trend is Jordan, where a majority (57%) now says suicide bombings and other violent actions are justifiable in defense of Islam.

As in past Global Attitudes surveys, publics in predominantly Muslim countries believe that democracy can work in their countries. Large and growing majorities in Morocco (83%), Lebanon (83%), Jordan (80%) and Indonesia (77%) – as well as pluralities in Turkey (48%) and Pakistan (43%) – say democracy can work well and is not just for the West.(see Chart #4)

Outside the Muslim world, the Pew survey finds that in countries such as India, Russia, Germany and the Netherlands, concerns about Islamic extremism – both within their own borders and around the world – are running high. Worries over Islamic extremism are nearly as high in France and Spain. Concerns about terrorism at home and around the world run parallel in only three countries, Russia, India and Spain. Before the London terrorist attacks, Americans and Britons expressed more concern about extremism around the world than they did at home(See Chart #5)

Majorities in Great Britain, France, Canada, the U.S. and Russia, as well as pluralities in Spain and Poland, say they have a somewhat or very favorable view of Muslims. In the West, only among the Dutch and Germans does a majority or plurality hold unfavorable views of Muslims (51% and 47%, respectively).

And the coup de grat...

While support for suicide bombings and other terrorist acts has fallen in most Muslim-majority nations surveyed, so too has confidence in Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. In Lebanon, just 2% report some or a lot of confidence in bin Laden, and in Turkey only 7% do so.

In Morocco, just 26% of the public now say they have a lot or some confidence in bin Laden, down sharply from 49% in May 2003. In Indonesia, the public is now about evenly split, with 35% saying they place at least some confidence in bin Laden and 37% saying they have little or none; that represents a major shift since 2003, when 58% expressed confidence in bin Laden
.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

cnredd's note..."I couldn't upload all seven charts...they are available at the website"....

If the left looks hard enough, they will find little morsels to hang on to...but there is OVERWHELMING evidence that the "opening of eyes" in the Middle Eastern world is slowly, but surely, taking effect.

"For those who understand no explanation is needed, ...For those who don't none will do". - Jerry Lewis
So the war against terror is working?
 

cnredd

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MiamiFlorida said:
So the war against terror is working?
Don't say it out loud!...

Some want to keep up the perception that its not...
 

Simon W. Moon

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MiamiFlorida said:
So the war against terror is working?
Before you go getting all post hoc ergo propter hoc on us, let's examine some of the data in more detail.
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/248topline.pdf

It's eminently possible that the decline in support for UbL is more a matter of him shooting himself in the foot. All that takfir talk is bound to have some repercussions. Not to mention the indiscriminate violence that gets attributed to the "aQ cause." I expect it's generally hard for an average Joe or Muhammed to get behind the murder of innocents.

Answers to the question,
Which one of the following do you think is the most important cause of Islamic extremism in our country?
Is it due to: Government corruption; Immorality; U.S. policies and influence; Poverty and lack of jobs; Lack of education; Lawlessness?
Rank "U.S. policies and influence" as the second most common answer over-all, percentage-wise after "Poverty and lack of jobs."
While it's arguable that these folks surveyed may not really know what's going re the "most important cause of Islamic extremism" in their countries, it should give one at least a pause before attributing the decline in support for UbL and suicide attacks to the very same "U.S. policies and influence" they cite as an important cause of Islamic extremism in their countries.

Just a thought.
 

cnredd

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I've noticed a lack of the "usual suspects" in this thread....
 

Simon W. Moon

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cnredd said:
I've noticed a lack of the "usual suspects" in this thread....
Ahhh. Welcome to my world. That's how threads that I author often go.
 

MSgt

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cnredd said:
I was reading an article from Michael Barone in US News & World Report(8/29/05) and something stuck out which goes against the "common knowledge" which is thrown at us by the left.

For those who wish to keep their blinders on...please do not read any further...

Polls in the United States may show that Americans have become less supportive of our efforts in Iraq as the suicide bombings and roadside-bomb attacks continue. But the Pew polls in these Muslim countries show that those attacks have moved Muslim opinion against the terrorists and toward democracy.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/050829/29barone.htm

For those who go through life slurping down every bias idea a slanted website has to offer(truthout.org, mediaresearch.com, etc.), Pew Research is THEE most non-partisan survey group known to man. Their objectivity is leaps and bounds above all others. As per their first statement on their homepage...

The Pew Research Center is a non-partisan "fact tank" that provides information on the issues, attitudes and trends shaping America and the world. It does not take positions on policy issues.

Since Mr. Barone pointed us, the readers, toward Pew as the source for his claim, I went to their website to get more information...

What you are about to see flies in the face of all that "the left" wants to believe...

I will throw out "snippets" of info, as the article and subdivisions can be lenghty...I urge all to go to the site itself for a full report...

Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Publics
Concerns over Islamic extremism, extensive in the West even before this month's terrorist attacks in London, are shared to a considerable degree by the publics in several predominantly Muslim nations surveyed. Nearly three-quarters of Moroccans and roughly half of those in Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia see Islamic extremism as a threat to their countries. At the same time, most Muslim publics are expressing less support for terrorism than in the past. Confidence in Osama bin Laden has declined markedly in some countries and fewer believe suicide bombings that target civilians are justified in the defense of Islam
(see chart #1)

The polling also finds that in most majority-Muslim countries surveyed, support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence in defense of Islam has declined significantly. In Turkey, Morocco and Indonesia, 15% or fewer now say such actions are justifiable. In Pakistan, only one-in-four now take that view (25%), a sharp drop from 41% in March 2004. In Lebanon, 39% now regard acts of terrorism as often or sometimes justified, again a sharp drop from the 73% who shared that view in 2002. A notable exception to this trend is Jordan, where a majority (57%) now says suicide bombings and other violent actions are justifiable in defense of Islam.

As in past Global Attitudes surveys, publics in predominantly Muslim countries believe that democracy can work in their countries. Large and growing majorities in Morocco (83%), Lebanon (83%), Jordan (80%) and Indonesia (77%) – as well as pluralities in Turkey (48%) and Pakistan (43%) – say democracy can work well and is not just for the West.(see Chart #4)

Outside the Muslim world, the Pew survey finds that in countries such as India, Russia, Germany and the Netherlands, concerns about Islamic extremism – both within their own borders and around the world – are running high. Worries over Islamic extremism are nearly as high in France and Spain. Concerns about terrorism at home and around the world run parallel in only three countries, Russia, India and Spain. Before the London terrorist attacks, Americans and Britons expressed more concern about extremism around the world than they did at home(See Chart #5)

Majorities in Great Britain, France, Canada, the U.S. and Russia, as well as pluralities in Spain and Poland, say they have a somewhat or very favorable view of Muslims. In the West, only among the Dutch and Germans does a majority or plurality hold unfavorable views of Muslims (51% and 47%, respectively).

And the coup de grat...

While support for suicide bombings and other terrorist acts has fallen in most Muslim-majority nations surveyed, so too has confidence in Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. In Lebanon, just 2% report some or a lot of confidence in bin Laden, and in Turkey only 7% do so.

In Morocco, just 26% of the public now say they have a lot or some confidence in bin Laden, down sharply from 49% in May 2003. In Indonesia, the public is now about evenly split, with 35% saying they place at least some confidence in bin Laden and 37% saying they have little or none; that represents a major shift since 2003, when 58% expressed confidence in bin Laden
.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

cnredd's note..."I couldn't upload all seven charts...they are available at the website"....

If the left looks hard enough, they will find little morsels to hang on to...but there is OVERWHELMING evidence that the "opening of eyes" in the Middle Eastern world is slowly, but surely, taking effect.

"For those who understand no explanation is needed, ...For those who don't none will do". - Jerry Lewis

Right out of the park.
 

cnredd

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GySgt said:
Right out of the park.
Thank you.:2wave:

This info should be shoved down eveyone's throat and digested before anyone makes BS blanket statements...
 

Simon W. Moon

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It seems things are returning to pre-Iraq war levels.
 

cnredd

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Simon W. Moon said:
It seems things are returning to pre-Iraq war levels.
Don't know the angle your using for your statement.:confused:
 

FinnMacCool

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I've noticed a lack of the "usual suspects" in this thread....
Was that directed at me? I did read this post before but I had nothing to argue against. I can't argue with statistics. We'll just have to see what happens. I hope this proves correct.

BTW go to the Relgion and Philosophy part of the forum. I really could use some help with this thing. Not very many people go there though so. . .
 

Simon W. Moon

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cnredd said:
Don't know the angle your using for your statement.:confused:

U.S. Image Up Slightly, But Still Negative
Pew Global Attitudes Project Released: 06.23.05

Anti-Americanism in Europe, the Middle East and Asia, which surged as a result of the U.S. war in Iraq, shows modest signs of abating. But the United States remains broadly disliked in most countries surveyed, and the opinion of the American people is not as positive as it once was.

Attitudes toward the U.S. remain quite negative in the Muslim world, though hostility toward America has eased in some countries. Many Muslims see the U.S. supporting democracy in their countries, and many of those who are optimists about the prospects for democracy in the Middle East give at least some credit to U.S. policies. But progress for America's image in these countries is measured in small steps; solid majorities in all five predominantly Muslim countries surveyed still express unfavorable views of the United States.
Examine the 'before' dates in the polling that you cited. In almost every case, the "before' picture was taken at the height of the tensions re the invasion of Iraq. Things have gotten better = Things have failed to stay as bad. Things are approaching the pre-Iraq invasion levels.
 

cnredd

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FinnMacCool said:
Was that directed at me? I did read this post before but I had nothing to argue against. I can't argue with statistics. We'll just have to see what happens. I hope this proves correct.
It only is directed at you if you feel that these stats fly in the face of your previous posts...

You CAN argue statistics...depending on where they are coming from...Biased sites are where certain people get THEIR stats and slurp them down religiously. This was intended to show those people that their arguments are unreliable compared to what is really going on...

But the Pew polls in these Muslim countries show that those attacks have moved Muslim opinion against the terrorists and toward democracy.

Are you one of the ones that were saying that Muslim opinion was moving away from democracy?

The polling also finds that in most majority-Muslim countries surveyed, support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence in defense of Islam has declined significantly.

Are you one of the ones that were saying that more & more people in the Middle east were supporting this violence?

While support for suicide bombings and other terrorist acts has fallen in most Muslim-majority nations surveyed, so too has confidence in Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Are you one of the ones that were saying that Al Qaeda is gaining more respect throughout the region?

The "usual suspects" are the ones who would answer "Yes" to one or more of these three questions...if they had the courage to show up and respond...

Even if they did show up, they would just discount it because it is direct contention with what they've been spewing and what they WANT to believe. I think we are all in agreement that there are people on this website that just throw out shameful and slanted rhetoric with resistance to reality.
 

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“the Pew polls in these Muslim countries show that those attacks have moved Muslim opinion against the terrorists and toward democracy.”

Please let it be true, for nobody would have a reason to stampede if all could see the uniform and the uniform was voted upon.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Another item that very important to consider is that this particular poll is of 6 countries, IIRC. However, there're actually more countries than that in the Muslim world.
Also note that there fair amount of variance in these countries. I think that these numbers were calculated since the DoD issued it's assessment. The DoD report is a source for the idea that the number of terrorist groups is increasing and that more folks have decided to support terrorist activities.
It's possible that the DoD had a different set of data to draw from that took into account the events in countries that were not included in the Pew report.
Also, it's also possible that support for various anti-American activties and assorted groups was not reflected in the declining support for suicide bombings and UbL in particular.

The items discussed must be compared to make sure we're not looking at apples and oranges. Or even Granny Smiths and Fijis. I can't do it right now though, unfortunately.
 
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