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Sunnis demand Iraq torture probe

python416

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This anti-torture stuff is finally getting some steam.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/16/iraq.main.1357/

Skin being pealed off, brutual beatings, etc.

So let hear it guys - how come this is OK? Or better yet, how is Bush gonna fix it?



I'll start you ditto-heads off:

1) Danny Pearl (or 911 victims) were not treated right, we should we (or the Iraqi government)? - RESPONSE: Well because Iraq and the US are countries and don't get to act outside of the law. If you want to act outside of the law, start a terrorist organization.

2) We need the intelligence. - RESPONSE: Well first of all torture doesn't produce usable intel, and second the fallout from this kind of publicity is more hurtful than any output could be helpful

3) This isn't that bad; it is just some kids having fun - RESPONSE: Ya nothing like a good skinning to get the party started

4) This is just the left-wing media attacking our president because they hate America - RESPONSE: Well there is not left-wing media bias, it is just the the right-wing media bias from 2001-2004 is finally slipping away

5) Worse stuff happened under Clinton - RESPONSE: Well that is not the issue here, we are talking about today; please leave Clinton out of it (if you can).

6) These are Iraqis and therefore it isn't a US problem - RESPONSE: Yes it is, cause the US created this whole mess, and is the one doing the nation building and miltary training in Iraq.



So come on boys lets hear what else you got!
 

Deegan

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python416 said:
This anti-torture stuff is finally getting some steam.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/16/iraq.main.1357/

Skin being pealed off, brutual beatings, etc.

So let hear it guys - how come this is OK? Or better yet, how is Bush gonna fix it?



I'll start you ditto-heads off:

1) Danny Pearl (or 911 victims) were not treated right, we should we (or the Iraqi government)? - RESPONSE: Well because Iraq and the US are countries and don't get to act outside of the law. If you want to act outside of the law, start a terrorist organization.

2) We need the intelligence. - RESPONSE: Well first of all torture doesn't produce usable intel, and second the fallout from this kind of publicity is more hurtful than any output could be helpful

3) This isn't that bad; it is just some kids having fun - RESPONSE: Ya nothing like a good skinning to get the party started

4) This is just the left-wing media attacking our president because they hate America - RESPONSE: Well there is not left-wing media bias, it is just the the right-wing media bias from 2001-2004 is finally slipping away

5) Worse stuff happened under Clinton - RESPONSE: Well that is not the issue here, we are talking about today; please leave Clinton out of it (if you can).

6) These are Iraqis and therefore it isn't a US problem - RESPONSE: Yes it is, cause the US created this whole mess, and is the one doing the nation building and miltary training in Iraq.



So come on boys lets hear what else you got!
Yes, we created this whole mess, and it's called a democracy. I guess you never heard on the news all the torture that was going on in Iraq before, yeah, because it was not a free society then, now it is, and the word is getting out. I see this as a good thing, not the torture of course, but that now this is brought out in to the light of day, for all to see, and can now be dealt with. I imagine some of these folks wanted a little pay back, well they got it, only problem is, now they will have to suffer a consequence, that's what free countries do.

Now what is all of this attitude you seem to be displaying, because if this is some kind of "I told you so" you can save that crap for the weak minded among us.:roll:
 

cnredd

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python416 said:
This anti-torture stuff is finally getting some steam.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/16/iraq.main.1357/

Skin being pealed off, brutual beatings, etc.

So let hear it guys - how come this is OK? Or better yet, how is Bush gonna fix it?



I'll start you ditto-heads off:

1) Danny Pearl (or 911 victims) were not treated right, we should we (or the Iraqi government)? - RESPONSE: Well because Iraq and the US are countries and don't get to act outside of the law. If you want to act outside of the law, start a terrorist organization.

2) We need the intelligence. - RESPONSE: Well first of all torture doesn't produce usable intel, and second the fallout from this kind of publicity is more hurtful than any output could be helpful

3) This isn't that bad; it is just some kids having fun - RESPONSE: Ya nothing like a good skinning to get the party started

4) This is just the left-wing media attacking our president because they hate America - RESPONSE: Well there is not left-wing media bias, it is just the the right-wing media bias from 2001-2004 is finally slipping away

5) Worse stuff happened under Clinton - RESPONSE: Well that is not the issue here, we are talking about today; please leave Clinton out of it (if you can).

6) These are Iraqis and therefore it isn't a US problem - RESPONSE: Yes it is, cause the US created this whole mess, and is the one doing the nation building and miltary training in Iraq.



So come on boys lets hear what else you got!
I'm sorry...But the next time you copy & paste articles...maybe you should read them...

Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari said Tuesday the prisoners were found malnourished and possibly tortured by government security forces at a Baghdad lockup. He has launched an Iraqi-led investigation with U.S. assistance.

Want more?...

"These are employees of the Ministry of Interior, not affiliated with one organization or another," he said.

Let's keep going, shall we?...

The U.S. military said they found the detainees Sunday when they entered a building controlled by the ministry while looking for a missing 15-year-old boy.


So it seems that their own people, and not the US, are being investigated for doing this...In fact, it states the US is helping with the investigation...

You're not very good at this, are you?...:roll:
 

Deegan

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cnredd said:
I'm sorry...But the next time you copy & paste articles...maybe you should read them...

Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari said Tuesday the prisoners were found malnourished and possibly tortured by government security forces at a Baghdad lockup. He has launched an Iraqi-led investigation with U.S. assistance.

Want more?...

"These are employees of the Ministry of Interior, not affiliated with one organization or another," he said.

Let's keep going, shall we?...

The U.S. military said they found the detainees Sunday when they entered a building controlled by the ministry while looking for a missing 15-year-old boy.


So it seems that their own people, and not the US, are being investigated for doing this...In fact, it states the US is helping with the investigation...

You're not very good at this, are you?...:roll:
I don't think he was assuming it was the U.S, he just thinks this is happening because of what we may have done in the past. I am not certain of this, but I think this is where he is trying to go with this? As I said, I think he is missing the most important part of this story, in his zeal to lay blame on this countries door. That point being, this kind of thing is no longer hidden in their new free society, and no longer will this procede unabated!
 

cnredd

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Deegan said:
I don't think he was assuming it was the U.S, he just thinks this is happening because of what we may have done in the past. I am not certain of this, but I think this is where he is trying to go with this? As I said, I think he is missing the most important part of this story, in his zeal to lay blame on this countries door. That point being, this kind of thing is no longer hidden in their new free society, and no longer will this procede unabated!
So you think he's playing "Six Degrees to Bush is a A-hole"?

Cool...Let me try...

The subject...My persian rug is dirty...

1) My persian rug is dirty.
2) I used a vacuum cleaner to clean it.
3) Oil was used at the facility which makes vacuum cleaners.
4) Bush is on the take with the oil companies.
5) Bush is an A-hole!

Wow!...With one to spare!...:roll:
 

python416

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Deegan said:
I don't think he was assuming it was the U.S, he just thinks this is happening because of what we may have done in the past. I am not certain of this, but I think this is where he is trying to go with this? As I said, I think he is missing the most important part of this story, in his zeal to lay blame on this countries door. That point being, this kind of thing is no longer hidden in their new free society, and no longer will this procede unabated!
Point being, and I applogize for not making it clear, is that with Cheney pushing for the right to torture, and the US inspired Iraqi security forces running secret torture enabled detention centers that are appearing to concerntrate on Sunni muslims, the situation is only looking to degrade.

Just because the US is helping to fix the situation, doesn't mean the US policies in Iraq are not going to be blamed for this.

In light of the American ambiguity on the official opinion on torture, all the gitmo and abu grahab crap, etc., and regardless of Bush's worthless insistence on the US not supporting torture, this new discovery is only the next chapter in recruitment motivation for Sunni who are further being isolated from the rest of the country.

So you have the Sunni leader that pushed for the US position in the Oct 15th election now turning and calling for international investigation.

Do you think the US or Iraq government is going to meet that request? No.
Do you think the Sunnis are going to back down from that request? No.
What does that mean for the Sunni population's integrated with the rest of the country? Not good.

The mess just keeps getting worse
 
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