Sudan leader Bashir arrives in Juba before referendum

[Infinite Chaos]

Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir has arrived in Southern Sudan's capital, Juba, five days before a referendum is held on whether it will secede.

Mr Bashir is to hold talks with the semi-autonomous south's leader, Salva Kiir. The two were on opposing sides during the two-decades-long civil war.

The referendum was part of the 2005 peace deal that ended the conflict.

Officials say almost 4 million people have registered to vote on Sunday, more than 95% of them in Southern Sudan.

Others have signed up in northern Sudan and eight countries abroad.
Split 'almost certain'

Mr Bashir, who donned traditional southern robes when he descended from the plane, was greeted on his arrival by Mr Kiir, senior southern politicians and a guard of honour. BBC Source

This is an important month for Sudan, the mainly black south wishes to secede and the Arabist Muslim North is very much against this.

If gas and oil weren't part of the picture, I doubt either the OAU or the rest of the world would care much however the stakes are high and I'm hoping the vote turns out peacefully and the South is allowed to secede.

The only shame is that the south has had to promise some repayment back to the north for the disputed Abyei area and that some if not all oil revenue will be shared.

 

[Jetboogieman]

This is an important month for Sudan, the mainly black south wishes to secede and the Arabist Muslim North is very much against this.

If gas and oil weren't part of the picture, I doubt either the OAU or the rest of the world would care much however the stakes are high and I'm hoping the vote turns out peacefully and the South is allowed to secede.

The only shame is that the south has had to promise some repayment back to the north for the disputed Abyei area and that some if not all oil revenue will be shared.

If this garuntees peace, although its unfair, it'll be worth it.

The bigger issue at this point is hardly the Arab North but the Rival Militia groups across Southern and Eastern Sudan and Chad. These will be the crux of the matter.

And quite frankly, I'd still like to see Bashir arrested and executed for his crimes against Humanity.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- And quite frankly, I'd still like to see Bashir arrested and executed for his crimes against Humanity.

Unfortunately, Bashir has used the possible secession to announce an even stricter interpretation of Sharia in Northern Sudan.

One thing that intruiges me, if the North runs a more severe form of Sharia and the south becomes an oil rich, mainly christian country (and hopefully with Western values) - we could see Sudan's muslims heading south for opportunity and a better lifestyle.. funny how change could come from the unlikliest of quarters.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- And quite frankly, I'd still like to see Bashir arrested and executed for his crimes against Humanity.

Unfortunately, Bashir has used the possible secession to announce an even stricter interpretation of Sharia in Northern Sudan.

One thing that intruiges me, if the North runs a more severe form of Sharia and the south becomes an oil rich, mainly christian country (and hopefully with Western values) - we could see Sudan's muslims heading south for opportunity and a better lifestyle.. funny how change could come from the unlikliest of quarters.

 

[mbig]

The 'shame' here is how many lives have already been lost and how many displaced by the conflict.
Breathtaking.
It's really a stupendous tragedy that most of the planet didn't even know about until the 'trendier' Darfur... When the Arabo-Muslim North went after the 'blacker' Muslims.
Having already killed and displaced a couple million of Christians/animists in the South in the decades long civil war (and genocide).

The Arab League supported 'sister country' Sudan and Bashir/NIF in his horrendous acts for most of the time.
But they did get scores of UN Resolutions against Israel in the 20 years Tens of Thousands were being killed yearly in Sudan. (est range to 2 Million from 1983-2003)

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Interestingly, the current revenue sharing deal that supposedly splits Sudan's oil revenue 50:50 between North and South is up for renewal or renegotiation at the end of this month. Reports from Global Witness show that there are large discrepancies between what is reported as produced and then the revenues that come from production.

The report also says the Sudanese government and the region's main oil company - China National Petroleum Corporation - have not adequately accounted for discrepancies in published production figures.

Source

I don't think the deal with Chinese oil companies will be rescinded if the south imposes its will and asks for a better share of its own mineral resource - however this will make for interesting times in the two new countries once the separation is complete.

 

[Laila]

If this vote must happen. Which I don't support at all as an East African but it is too late to change or stop. The precedent is in place no matter what for Africa. The South should give North a percentage of its oil, why not?

I await Ivory Coast splitting next. Muslims in Ivory Coast have been oppressed for too long by Christians despite making up the majority of the population with the help of the French, it should have a referendum and divide fast before civil war breaks out.

 

[24107]

This is an important month for Sudan, the mainly black south wishes to secede and the Arabist Muslim North is very much against this.

If gas and oil weren't part of the picture, I doubt either the OAU or the rest of the world would care much however the stakes are high and I'm hoping the vote turns out peacefully and the South is allowed to secede.

The only shame is that the south has had to promise some repayment back to the north for the disputed Abyei area and that some if not all oil revenue will be shared.

The stakes couldn't get any higher, that black gold is known to cause death and destruction

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- The South should give North a percentage of its oil, why not? --

Why?

It's actually the same thinking that the Hausa Nigerians of the north apply to the oil of southern Nigeria. They feel that the efforts of Hausa peanut farmers supported the nation before oil was discovered and so they saw the oil as the south's method of repayment. I totally disagree - the south gains no benefit in Nigeria and it seems the same has happened in Sudan-however Northern Sudan's Arabs have never contributed anything much of worth to the south.

 

[Laila]

I don't care. SS is breaking the status quo. It should give a percentage of its profits to the North. No less should be accepted by the North

I am probably being very unfair to Sudan but dammit. A new African country, redrawing of borders? Urgh

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I don't care. SS is breaking the status quo. It should give a percentage of its profits to the North. No less should be accepted by the North

South Sudan is trying to make a future for itself that Northern Sudan has basically failed to do. The mineral rights of the south should remain with South Sudan - but that's my personal feeling. There are no courts that could impose the penalty but in my book, South Sudanese should sue for compensation and abuse of its resources.

I am probably being very unfair to Sudan but dammit. A new African country, redrawing of borders? Urgh

I read your other thread when you first raised the redrawing of borders - there are many places around Africa that would benefit from hostile neighbours being separated. Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Congo, Rwanda, Angola etc spring to mind. I'm curious because I seem to rmember your posts regarding your own home area seeking to establish itself as a new nation. Why wish it for your own region but deny it for others?

(I may recall wrongly - struggling to work the search function to make sure I was correct!) :3oops:

 

[Laila]

No, I think you are right in some of what you said in regards to my home country.
I've changed alot in my years on the forum, I remember me being such a nationalist

Somaliland cannot be compared to SS. Somaliland was Independent and was a British colony. It was recognised as a country separate from Somalia (controlled by Italy) before the union.
Somaliland is doing the exact same thing Eritrea did which was leave a union and it wouldn't have broken the status quo and redrew the colonial borders.

I don't think I'd be as supportive of my home country if it advocated changing colonial borders. If Rwanda can make it through, I don't think many African countries can complain

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- If Rwanda can make it through, I don't think many African countries can complain

You of all people know varied and different many of the countries in Africa are, I too have lived in many and most have hostile neighbours that shouldn't be locked together. Rwanda isn't really "making it" though, it's probably the same kind of uneasy peace that I felt in Nigeria. Most Nigerians felt that they wouldn't ever go back to the dark place that the civil war took them into, however many Igbos I talked to felt betrayed by fellow christians and quite a few still harboured a desire to break away.

I never quite made it into Sudan but it doesn't have as many different racial and tribal / ethnic groups as Nigeria (probably some Fulani and Hausa herders who cross the borders) and the split can be seen more on religious lines than Nigeria. I'd wager South Sudan is one of the best cases for splitting a country in Africa. South Sudan will do better for being free of the Muslim North.

Thankfully, the vote is something that is happening - it's a shame it took years of civil strife and bloodshed to get there however.