Study: Obamacare Is Not Collapsing

Vern · Jul 12, 2017

Athanasius68 said:
What sabotage? The law is the same as it was whenObama was president.

Republicans encouraged people to not sign up, didn’t expand Medicaid in 19 states, defunded the risk corridor program and Trump has said he wont enforce the mandate. The most recent effort is Trump is threatening to not pay the CSR payments. Insurance companies have literally stated they have to price that into their premiums.

Every single one of those efforts caused premiums to go up. This is not the first time they’ve put their agenda ahead of America. Here’s BCBS of North Carolina

“During a media call Thursday morning, Brian Tajlili, director of actuarial and pricing services for BCBSNC, outlined why the requested rate increase is necessary.
A lack of federal funding for cost-sharing reduction payments accounts for the “largest portion of our increase,” Tajlili said on the call. CSR plans offer lower out-of-pocket costs for certain lower-income ACA customers. While “required by law to offer CSR plans in order to participate in the exchange … we must offer these benefits without federal funding,” he said.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/05/25/bcbsnc-outlines-why-it-filed-for-a-23-rate.html

Anthony60 · Jul 12, 2017

Vern said:
That’s pretty funny. It tells me that they’ve lied nonstop for 7 years and you’ll look for any excuse to not acknowledge that. We tried to tell you but you wouldn’t listen. And as long as you continue to look for any excuse to believe republicans on Obamacare you will find one.

I guess you replied to the wrong post, since it doesn't fit as a response to what I posted.

Vern · Jul 12, 2017

Anthony60 said:
I guess you replied to the wrong post, since it doesn't fit as a response to what I posted.

A60, that’s not just sad but dishonest. You were puzzled why republicans stopped voting for repeal. So you came up with the laughable and pathetic excuse “Republicans just can't let go of their new found power over us.” Here, read it again

Anthony60 said:
That says to me that Republicans just can't let go of their new found power over us.

I simply pointed out a reason we’ve been trying to explain to you and yours for 7 years: they were lying to you. and the reason your excuse is pathetic is because if you don't acknowledge they were lying to you for 7 years, you can happily and obediently continue to vote for them. What does it say about your agenda when you have to pretend not to understand my post?

Moderate Right · Jul 12, 2017

MTAtech said:
See post number 40, I already addressed Vox and that link has the actual text of the CBO, which doesn't say what you want it to say.

The CBO predicts the future, not the past. The past has already happened. The fact that you even read Vox at all just shows that you look at everything from a partisan perspective.

Anthony60 · Jul 12, 2017

Vern said:
A60, that’s not just sad but dishonest. You were puzzled why republicans stopped voting for repeal. So you came up with the laughable and pathetic excuse “Republicans just can't let go of their new found power over us.” Here, read it again

I simply pointed out a reason we’ve been trying to explain to you and yours for 7 years: they were lying to you. and the reason your excuse is pathetic is because if you don't acknowledge they were lying to you for 7 years, you can happily and obediently continue to vote for them. What does it say about your agenda when you have to pretend not to understand my post?

That still doesn't make any sense. Or are you saying that this is somehow supposed to be news to me, that their repeated votes to repeal were just for show? That certainly can't be it, it's so ridiculous.

Oh, and don't tell me that you don't know that Obama and the left have been lying to you about Obamacae, I mean that's just a given.

fmw · Jul 12, 2017

Rogue Valley said:
Study: Obamacare Is Not Collapsing

What is hurting some ACA exchanges is the uncertainty injected into the healthcare structure by Trump and hard conservatives in the GOP majority Congress. Health insurance companies usually make policy/pricing changes today that are based on 12 month industry analyst predictions. But this is impossible when the government purposefully injects uncertainty into the equations. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R/KY) has far less than the number of GOP votes necessary to pass the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017. If a compromise cannot be reached in the near term, McConnell will be forced to consider Democrat amendments to craft a passable bill.

Additional: Individual Insurance Market Performance in Early 2017

Excellent. That means the republicans can stop trying to pass an awful law and all will be well.

Roadvirus · Jul 12, 2017

Vern said:
Seems a rather simple metric to determine failure. But if your concern is about premiums then you should be even more mad at republicans. Their sabotage did and will increase premiums.

The problem with your argument is that premiums were increasing before the "republican sabotage".

Vern · Jul 12, 2017

Roadvirus said:
The problem with your argument is that premiums were increasing before the "republican sabotage".

There are several problems with your rebuttal. First, republicans were encouraging people to not sign up right from the start. second, I didn't say republican sabotage was the only reason premiums increased. Third, you're ignoring the increases before Obamacare. so my point still stands, if you don't want single payer and even higher premiums please tell Trump and republicans to stop sabotaging Obamacare. It really is that simple.

Oh and Nevada showed the world a simple tweak to get more insurance companies into the exchanges

The surprisingly simple way Nevada recruited more Obamacare insurers

Vern · Jul 12, 2017

Anthony60 said:
That still doesn't make any sense. Or are you saying that this is somehow supposed to be news to me, that their repeated votes to repeal were just for show? That certainly can't be it, it's so ridiculous.

just so you know, its not clear if you are saying it's ridiculous that republicans were dishonest in their repeated repeal votes or that you didn't know they were dishonest. So let me repeat for you (read it very very slowly). you posted you were puzzled why republicans repeatedly tried to repeal Obamacare and then stopped. You posted the hilarious excuse that they were concerned about their new found power.

Anthony60 said:
That says to me that Republicans just can't let go of their new found power over us.

You said it. I read it. I responded to it. how does that not make sense when I tell you your post was nonsensical and republicans were just lying the last 7 years?

Oh, and don't tell me that you don't know that Obama and the left have been lying to you about Obamacae, I mean that's just a given.

sorry, I'm going to have to ignore you current deflection from our discussion until I'm sure you understand exactly what you posted.

Moderate Right · Jul 12, 2017

Vern said:
Republicans encouraged people to not sign up, didn’t expand Medicaid in 19 states, defunded the risk corridor program and Trump has said he wont enforce the mandate. The most recent effort is Trump is threatening to not pay the CSR payments. Insurance companies have literally stated they have to price that into their premiums.

Every single one of those efforts caused premiums to go up. This is not the first time they’ve put their agenda ahead of America. Here’s BCBS of North Carolina

“During a media call Thursday morning, Brian Tajlili, director of actuarial and pricing services for BCBSNC, outlined why the requested rate increase is necessary.
A lack of federal funding for cost-sharing reduction payments accounts for the “largest portion of our increase,” Tajlili said on the call. CSR plans offer lower out-of-pocket costs for certain lower-income ACA customers. While “required by law to offer CSR plans in order to participate in the exchange … we must offer these benefits without federal funding,” he said.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/05/25/bcbsnc-outlines-why-it-filed-for-a-23-rate.html

That's the problem with Obamacare. All it does is charge healthcare to the tax payer or to the national debt at a time when we already owe 20 trillion dollars. That's the left's answer to everything. Rising healthcare costs? No problem. Just increase subsidies to individuals. Increase subsidies to the insurance companies. Increase taxes on the rich. Add more money to the national debt. The madness has to stop somewhere. If Democrats have a plan to stop the madness then I'm all ears.

Moderate Right · Jul 12, 2017

Vern said:
There are several problems with your rebuttal. First, republicans were encouraging people to not sign up right from the start. second, I didn't say republican sabotage was the only reason premiums increased. Third, you're ignoring the increases before Obamacare. so my point still stands, if you don't want single payer and even higher premiums please tell Trump and republicans to stop sabotaging Obamacare. It really is that simple.

Oh and Nevada showed the world a simple tweak to get more insurance companies into the exchanges

The surprisingly simple way Nevada recruited more Obamacare insurers

You're entire rebuttal has problems but, then again, extreme partisanship is blind.

Blue_State · Jul 12, 2017

Vern said:
And out comes the incoherent double spaced reply. anyhoo BS (perfect initials I might add), see how you are deflecting again from the fact that your conservative masters told you there were death panels. And you are deflecting in an incoherent manner. I brought up “death panels” along with numerous other official lying conservative narratives to question the integrity of the people you continue to obediently believe. “something something death panels joke” makes no sense and does not refute my point. Actually, by trying to deflect from it proves even you know it was a ridiculous and asinine lie. But again, your deflection was incoherent.

And again, republican’s attempts to sabotage Obamacare by driving up premiums is documented. Your point about your employer subsidized healthcare is neither believable nor relevant. So my point still stands in spite of your incoherent and pointless deflections, if you don’t want single payer please tell Trump and republicans to stop sabotaging it.

So sad. Can you tell me what I am deflecting from? I am the one who has been on point. You are the one flailing. Actually don't. You haven't had a point yet...it is boring.

Kushinator · Jul 12, 2017

Moderate Right said:
You're entire rebuttal has problems but, then again, extreme partisanship is blind.

Your inability to articulate the problems of his rebuttal cannot be confused with extreme partisanship! No... that has more to do with your decision to actually respond to his post.

Anthony60 · Jul 12, 2017

Vern said:
just so you know, its not clear if you are saying it's ridiculous that republicans were dishonest in their repeated repeal votes or that you didn't know they were dishonest. So let me repeat for you (read it very very slowly). you posted you were puzzled why republicans repeatedly tried to repeal Obamacare and then stopped. You posted the hilarious excuse that they were concerned about their new found power.

Oh, boy, did you ever get that wrong. I didn't say anything about being puzzled. You're the only one that's puzzled.

I'll clue you in a tad here... It's ridiculous that you think that I didn't know what was going on. That's why I figured you were not responding to the correct post, since you would have to completely misinterpret my post to come up with that response. I guess I underestimated you there, LOL!

I'll spoon feed it to you... I'm saying that I knew all along that those votes were meaningless. God, does that really need to be explained???

You said it. I read it. I responded to it. how does that not make sense when I tell you your post was nonsensical and republicans were just lying the last 7 years?

I over estimated you skills of deduction. You didn't get that one either.

sorry, I'm going to have to ignore you current deflection from our discussion until I'm sure you understand exactly what you posted.

I knew you would not know what to say to that. just an example, that you, again, whiffed on.

Moderate Right · Jul 12, 2017

Kushinator said:
Your inability to articulate the problems of his rebuttal cannot be confused with extreme partisanship! No... that has more to do with your decision to actually respond to his post.

Haymarket has never had anything to rebut. Let me know if he ever posts something that isn't rabid partisan opinion. He's never had any facts.

Kushinator · Jul 13, 2017

Moderate Right said:
Haymarket has never had anything to rebut. Let me know if he ever posts something that isn't rabid partisan opinion. He's never had any facts.

You were responding to Vern!

Moderate Right said:
You're entire rebuttal has problems but, then again, extreme partisanship is blind.

:lamo

Moderate Right · Jul 13, 2017

Kushinator said:
You were responding to Vern!

:lamo

Sorry. I get very confused between the two because they are both identical uber partisans, such as yourself.

ReverendHellh0und · Jul 13, 2017

Rogue Valley said:
Study: Obamacare Is Not Collapsing

What is hurting some ACA exchanges is the uncertainty injected into the healthcare structure by Trump and hard conservatives in the GOP majority Congress. Health insurance companies usually make policy/pricing changes today that are based on 12 month industry analyst predictions. But this is impossible when the government purposefully injects uncertainty into the equations. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R/KY) has far less than the number of GOP votes necessary to pass the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017. If a compromise cannot be reached in the near term, McConnell will be forced to consider Democrat amendments to craft a passable bill.

Additional: Individual Insurance Market Performance in Early 2017

So wait, AZ's 125% increase is trump's fault?

Vern · Jul 13, 2017

Anthony60 said:
Oh, boy, did you ever get that wrong. I didn't say anything about being puzzled. You're the only one that's puzzled......

A60, “nuh uh, you’re wrong” is not an adequate response. You’re simply going to have to explain why you posted the theory/excuse that “republicans seem to enjoy some newfound power over America” Here, read it what you wrote again. slowly this time.

Anthony60 said:
How many times did they vote to repeal it when they knew Obama would veto it? Now, they haven't once voted to repeal it with Trump in office

That says to me that Republicans just can't let go of their new found power over us.

that says to me you're puzzled and looking for a reason to explain the lack of repeal votes. You then posted a theory/excuse for there being no votes to repeal. If as you claim you knew republicans were lying the whole time they tried to repeal Obamacare then what was the context of your theory/excuse? Please explain. thanks in advance. Oh and A60, your explanation doesn't require you to post about me. it simply requires you to explain your theory/excuse.

Vern · Jul 13, 2017

Blue_State said:
So sad. Can you tell me what I am deflecting from? I am the one who has been on point. You are the one flailing. Actually don't. You haven't had a point yet...it is boring.

As is usually the case, a conservative transcends delusional and becomes dishonest. My point has been and continues to be that if don’t want single payer please tell Trump and republicans to stop sabotaging Obamacare. I've reiterated that point in every reply to you. You’ve obediently flailed, whined, deflected and pretended to be confused but you cant pretend to know what my point was or that I had a point. Once again when a conservative has to choose between narrative and integrity they choose narrative.

Kushinator · Jul 13, 2017

Moderate Right said:
Sorry. I get very confused....

You are spot on!

Anthony60 · Jul 13, 2017

Vern said:
A60, “nuh uh, you’re wrong” is not an adequate response.

Oh, good, because that wasn't my response.

You’re simply going to have to explain why you posted the theory/excuse that “republicans seem to enjoy some newfound power over America” Here, read it what you wrote again. slowly this time.

Seems I can't explain it simply enough for you.

that says to me you're puzzled and looking for a reason to explain the lack of repeal votes.

Already stated that I wasn't puzzed at all. That's twice now. How many times until it takes with you?

You then posted a theory/excuse for there being no votes to repeal. If as you claim you knew republicans were lying the whole time they tried to repeal Obamacare then what was the context of your theory/excuse? Please explain.

You said they were lying, I said that they were just show votes. Unless you are calling something else a lie, because it, again, makes no sense in reference to a vote.

And what about the $2500 in savings per year? Are getting that?

trouble13 · Jul 13, 2017

Greenbeard said:
They aren't taking losses because their premium revenue now exceeds their expenses. Indeed! That's the point of the OP. It's clear now than in 2014 and 2015 in particular insurers in the exchanges underpriced, leading to negative margins. As many (notably S&P) have been arguing for months now, the 2017 premium bump was likely to be a one-time pricing correction that brought insurers in the exchanges into the black. That now appears to be confirmed.

Even so, the premium level in the exchanges is still pretty substantially below what it was projected to be back in 2009 when the cost of the ACA was being forecasted.

As for "huge deductibles," the average deductible for a plan purchases through an exchange last year was $850 (down from $900 the year prior). If that's an "unusable" policy than it would seem that a single-payer plan with zero cost-sharing is literally the only thing that will work for people.

According to Trump's HHS, risk scores in the exchanges haven't been increasing (which means by definition there can't be a death spiral occurring) and now we have further confirmation that exchange insurers have hit sustained profitability. Sorry, no death spiral.

Seems to me the practicle solution would be to hand this responsibility to the states. Get the feds out of it and let the residents in each to choose whats best for them instead of forcing everyone into a 1 size fits all national system.

If aca works on a national level there is no reason it wont work on a state level too.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

trouble13 · Jul 13, 2017

Greenbeard said:
Bronze plans are generally good for two kinds of people: those who don't expect to have medical expenses and prefer a catastrophic plan, and those who expect to have a lot of health expenses (given the way the OOP max works). Of course the least expensive premium plan has the highest deductible, that's the way it always works.

Most people buy above the bronze tier (silver plans or above). But bronze plans are available for those who are comfortable trading a higher deductible for a lower premium. And silver plans are more likely to carve services--like PCP office visits--out of the deductible, meaning you can use them without paying full freight even if you haven't hit your deductible yet. It's a market: if you want a more generous plan, they're available.

And the OOP max on that plan is $500 above the deductible. Meaning you only pay 50% coinsurance on $1,000 in expenses beyond the deductible. After that you pay zero. All plans have an OOP max (the value of which is capped by statute), meaning the different metal tiers differ by: 1) the value of that OOP max, and 2) how much of it they put into the deductible vs. co-insurance and co-pays.

Is it more generous or does it just distribute the premium differently?

The plan he described makes the insurer immune to the 1st 10k and 50% of additional costs incurred.

So lets say he ran up 100k in medical bills. The 1st.10k isnt covered and the next 45k would not be covered either. Is the silver plan better?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

radcen · Jul 13, 2017

Rogue Valley said:
Study: Obamacare Is Not Collapsing

What is hurting some ACA exchanges is the uncertainty injected into the healthcare structure by Trump and hard conservatives in the GOP majority Congress. Health insurance companies usually make policy/pricing changes today that are based on 12 month industry analyst predictions. But this is impossible when the government purposefully injects uncertainty into the equations. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R/KY) has far less than the number of GOP votes necessary to pass the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017. If a compromise cannot be reached in the near term, McConnell will be forced to consider Democrat amendments to craft a passable bill.

Additional: Individual Insurance Market Performance in Early 2017

That all sounds very nice and rational and articulate and all, but these problems of rate increases and companies pulling out of states has been happening since long before Trump came around. Now, Trump certainly has helped speed it along to some degree, but it cannot all be laid at his feet.

Not if one wants to be fair and objective, at least.

Study: Obamacare Is Not Collapsing

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