Some Of Those 11 Men On That Boat In Venezuela Attempted To Surrender AFTER Their Boat Was Hit With The Missile...And They Were Killed Anyway.

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Trump is a cold-blooded murderer and this is a war crime.

If the Democrats get control of Congress again, they need to impeach this murderer.

From The Intercept. --

The War Department has attempted to conceal numerous details about the attack that killed 11 people in the Caribbean, including the fact that the vessel altered its course and appeared to have turned back toward shore prior to the strikes. Men on board were said to have survived an initial strike, The Intercept reported last week. They were then killed shortly after in a follow-up attack.

“I’m incredibly disturbed by this new reporting that the Trump Administration launched multiple strikes on the boat off Venezuela,” Rep., Sara Jacobs, D-Calif., a member of the House Armed Services Committee’s Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations, said of The Intercept’s coverage. “They didn’t even bother to seek congressional authorization, bragged about these killings — and teased more to come.”

Pentagon Barred Senior House Staffers From Briefing on Venezuela Boat Strike

A former Pentagon official says “U.S. forces went out and committed murder" in the drone strike off the coast of Venezuela.

theintercept.com

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

NOT ONE SINGLE TRUMPER OR RIGHTIE will care.

I am shocked, absolutely shocked, that Leftists (other than myself of course) are still thinking that the Right gives a rat's ass about anyone with a slightly darker skin tone from a shithole country like Venezuela where everyone there belongs to a drug cartel and not a single one of them is worth losing sleep over.

 

[Gozaburo]

NOT ONE SINGLE TRUMPER OR RIGHTIE will care.

I am shocked, absolutely shocked, that Leftists (other than myself of course) are still thinking that the Right gives a rat's ass about anyone with a slightly darker skin tone from a shithole country like Venezuela where everyone there belongs to a drug cartel and not a single one of them is worth losing sleep over.

Extrajudicially smiting international drug smugglers is pretty awesome, actually.

The only wrinkle here is that this particular smiting was carried out by an infamously incompetent administration which probably can't reliably be trusted to do these kinds of things, which is why this a news story to begin with. Lets not pretend that previous administrations weren't firing hellfire missiles at hill people in the middle east for decades prior to this.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Extrajudicially smiting international drug smugglers is pretty awesome, actually.

Poor argument.

Lets not pretend that previous administrations weren't firing hellfire missiles at hill people in the middle east for decades prior to this.

Whatabout all them previous administrations?
Whataboutism is an argumentative tactic where a person or group responds to an accusation or difficult question by deflection. Instead of addressing the point made, they counter it with “but what about X?”.

Whataboutism: Behind the Deflecting Tactic in Arguments | FlaglerLive

Whataboutism is an argumentative tactic where a person or group responds to an accusation or difficult question by deflection. Instead of addressing the point made, they counter it with “but what about X?”

flaglerlive.com

 

[CaughtInThe]

The Trump Mafia has offered no information on who the people they are murdering actually are or any other information. They just want us to take their word for it.

Pay special attention to that.

 

[Gozaburo]

Poor argument.

What good reasons are there for not vaporizing drug smugglers in international waters in our own hemisphere? Frankly it's way easier to defend that action than it ever was to defend killing brown terrorists in a desert half a world away.

Whatabout all them previous administrations?
Whataboutism is an argumentative tactic where a person or group responds to an accusation or difficult question by deflection. Instead of addressing the point made, they counter it with “but what about X?”.

It's not "whataboutism" to point out we aren't dealing with a novel concept. Other posters have pointed this out, but there's a reasonable legal argument Trump could use to justify this bombing using powers granted to the government at the start of the war on terror. Should the executive have that power? Debatably... probably not. Does the executive have the power currently? It seems so.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Extrajudicially smiting international drug smugglers is pretty awesome, actually.

The only wrinkle here is that this particular smiting was carried out by an infamously incompetent administration which probably can't reliably be trusted to do these kinds of things, which is why this a news story to begin with. Lets not pretend that previous administrations weren't firing hellfire missiles at hill people in the middle east for decades prior to this.

That the President is authorized to use allnecessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed,or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to preventany future acts of international terrorism against the United Statesby such nations, organizations or persons

PUBLIC LAW 107–40—SEPT. 18, 2001


Think people fishing in international waters are covered by that?

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

What good reasons are there for not vaporizing drug smugglers in international waters in our own hemisphere? Frankly it's way easier to defend that action than it ever was to defend killing brown terrorists in a desert half a world away.



It's not "whataboutism" to point out we aren't dealing with a novel concept. Other posters have pointed this out, but there's a reasonable legal argument Trump could use to justify this bombing using powers granted to the government at the start of the war on terror. Should the executive have that power? Debatably... probably not. Does the executive have the power currently? It seems so.

SIGHS.
EVERY exchange we have further illustrates that your feigned intellectual approach is just that - feigned.
To the first question:
What evidence was provided that the Venezuelan boats were transporting drugs to the US? Yea yea, more than likely they were, but if I suspected you of something I think you would want me to provide some evidence to back up my suspicion.
As for your defense of whataboutism, I think that technique already has worn itself out by it's constant use to defend ANYTHING TRUMP.
Why blame Trump, is the common refrain, when other Presidents....................
Thing is, I know to expect that tactic from the Righties on here, but I wasn't expecting that from one our intellectually superior regulars on here.

 

[Gozaburo]

Think people fishing in international waters are covered by that?

I wouldn't dismiss it completely. The killing of guys like Anwar al-Awlaki, among many others, was dubiously justified with AUMF. Young Libertarian Gozaburo would tell people that stretching the definitions of "terrorism" was the exact problem with the AUMF, regardless of the purpose it was intended the serve. Crazy how many unforeseen consequences there are in a highly legalistic bureaucracy.

The more intelligent regimes of the past used intelligence cells and paramilitary groups to carry out killings like this, but that subtlety is lost on Trump, who insists on waving his dick around. It seems doubtful that we'll ever find out (concretely) if they were humble fishermen or international drug smugglers, though.

 

[Gozaburo]

What evidence was provided that the Venezuelan boats were transporting drugs to the US? Yea yea, more than likely they were, but if I suspected you of something I think you would want me to provide some evidence to back up my suspicion.
As for your defense of whataboutism, I think that technique already has worn itself out by it's constant use to defend ANYTHING TRUMP.
Why blame Trump, is the common refrain, when other Presidents....................

I think you're reading past what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that legal authority first established by previous presidents is now being utilized by Trump to do other stuff. Lots of people warned about this decades ago and now that it's happening, people with house pet memory are shocked to see it happening.

As for justification - the conversation about whether or not we ought to smite drug dealers in international waters vs. whether or not this particular boat was operated by drug dealers are two separate discussions.

 

[element94]

Trump is a cold-blooded murderer and this is a war crime.

If the Democrats get control of Congress again, they need to impeach this murderer.

From The Intercept. --

The War Department has attempted to conceal numerous details about the attack that killed 11 people in the Caribbean, including the fact that the vessel altered its course and appeared to have turned back toward shore prior to the strikes. Men on board were said to have survived an initial strike, The Intercept reported last week. They were then killed shortly after in a follow-up attack.

“I’m incredibly disturbed by this new reporting that the Trump Administration launched multiple strikes on the boat off Venezuela,” Rep., Sara Jacobs, D-Calif., a member of the House Armed Services Committee’s Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations, said of The Intercept’s coverage. “They didn’t even bother to seek congressional authorization, bragged about these killings — and teased more to come.”

Pentagon Barred Senior House Staffers From Briefing on Venezuela Boat Strike

A former Pentagon official says “U.S. forces went out and committed murder" in the drone strike off the coast of Venezuela.

theintercept.com

I'm seeing the need for a new category: The Murders attributed to Donald Trump. I'm taking thoughts on anyone else, Epstein?, who should also be on the list.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

As for justification - the conversation about whether or not we ought to smite drug dealers in international waters vs. whether or not this particular boat was operated by drug dealers are two separate discussions.

Extrajudicially smiting international drug smugglers is pretty awesome, actually.

 

[Peacenik]

Trump is a cold-blooded murderer and this is a war crime.

If the Democrats get control of Congress again, they need to impeach this murderer.

From The Intercept. --

The War Department has attempted to conceal numerous details about the attack that killed 11 people in the Caribbean, including the fact that the vessel altered its course and appeared to have turned back toward shore prior to the strikes. Men on board were said to have survived an initial strike, The Intercept reported last week. They were then killed shortly after in a follow-up attack.

“I’m incredibly disturbed by this new reporting that the Trump Administration launched multiple strikes on the boat off Venezuela,” Rep., Sara Jacobs, D-Calif., a member of the House Armed Services Committee’s Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations, said of The Intercept’s coverage. “They didn’t even bother to seek congressional authorization, bragged about these killings — and teased more to come.”

Pentagon Barred Senior House Staffers From Briefing on Venezuela Boat Strike

A former Pentagon official says “U.S. forces went out and committed murder" in the drone strike off the coast of Venezuela.

theintercept.com

Worst president -ever-.

 

[Peacenik]

Wanna go after drugs, Donald?

Look no further than your own white house:

"During the presidency of Donald Trump the White House Medical Unit operated “like the Wild West”, with controlled substances dished out to administration staff with a serious lack of oversight, according to a report.

Drugs including Ambien and Provigil – which are used to treat excessive sleepiness – were dished out without verifying the identities of patients, states the report from the Defense Department’s (DoD) inspector general.

Staff members reportedly told Rolling Stone that the White House was “awash with speed”, with prescription medication used by those to deal with the uniquely stressful job of serving the Trump administration.

Stimulants were given to those engaging in tasks including the writing of Mr Trump’s speeches, working late hours on foreign policy, responding to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe, and coping with the deluge of media inquiries, the outlet reported.

Details of the medical unit’s operations were included in the report, released by the DoD on 8 January. Among the findings was that many of the White House Medical Unit pharmaceutical management practices did not comply with federal and DoD guidance.

The report concluded that problems had occurred because the medical unit “did not consider their operations to be a pharmacy” and had relied on internal White House Medical Unit controls to ensure compliance with safety standards.

“We concluded that the White House Medical Unit’s internal controls were ineffective,” the report stated.

Among the issues cited was that the Medical Unit dispensed non‑emergency controlled medications, such as Ambien and Provigil, without verifying the patient’s identity. The unit also left over‑the‑counter medications in open bins for patient retrieval and use.

“It was kind of like the Wild West. Things were pretty loose. Whatever someone needs, we were going to fill this,” an unnamed source with direct knowledge of the matter told Rolling Stone.

In addition, the unit requested brand-name drugs rather than generic equivalents – costing thousands of dollars. According to the report – over a 3‑year period, the White House Medical Unit spent an estimated $46,500 for brand name Ambien, which is 174 times more expensive than the generic equivalent.

Over the same period, the White House Medical Unit also spent an estimated $98,000 for the brand name Provigil, which is 55 times more expensive than the generic equivalent."

"Trump administration was ‘awash with speed’ and prescription drugs, says reportDrugs including Ambien and Provigil were dished out without verifying the identities of patients, according to a report from the Defense Department’s (DoD) inspector general"​

​

 

[Moderate Right]

Trump is a cold-blooded murderer and this is a war crime.

If the Democrats get control of Congress again, they need to impeach this murderer.

From The Intercept. --

The War Department has attempted to conceal numerous details about the attack that killed 11 people in the Caribbean, including the fact that the vessel altered its course and appeared to have turned back toward shore prior to the strikes. Men on board were said to have survived an initial strike, The Intercept reported last week. They were then killed shortly after in a follow-up attack.

“I’m incredibly disturbed by this new reporting that the Trump Administration launched multiple strikes on the boat off Venezuela,” Rep., Sara Jacobs, D-Calif., a member of the House Armed Services Committee’s Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations, said of The Intercept’s coverage. “They didn’t even bother to seek congressional authorization, bragged about these killings — and teased more to come.”

Pentagon Barred Senior House Staffers From Briefing on Venezuela Boat Strike

A former Pentagon official says “U.S. forces went out and committed murder" in the drone strike off the coast of Venezuela.

theintercept.com

LOL. What happened to the left's claim that the boat had no drugs? That narrative seems to be changing.

 

[Tigerace117]

Extrajudicially smiting international drug smugglers is pretty awesome, actually.

The only wrinkle here is that this particular smiting was carried out by an infamously incompetent administration which probably can't reliably be trusted to do these kinds of things, which is why this a news story to begin with. Let’s not pretend that previous administrations weren't firing hellfire missiles at hill people in the middle east for decades prior to this.

Gunning down people who are surrendering actually really, really isn’t.

The only thing it accomplishes is encouraging people to fight to the death, as the Nazis found out.

And then, of course, there’s the obvious fact that nobody has proven these were drug smugglers.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

LOL. What happened to the left's claim that the boat had no drugs? That narrative seems to be changing.

The narrative didn't change.....MAGA Nazis just want to pretend it changed.

 

[Tangmo]

.....we aren't dealing with a novel concept. Other posters have pointed this out, but there's a reasonable legal argument Trump could use to justify this bombing using powers granted to the government at the start of the war on terror. Should the executive have that power? Debatably... probably not. Does the executive have the power currently? It seems so.

There are three factors that have been pointed out in previous threads about these cartel "drugboats."

The 2001 Resolution Authorizing The Use of Force against global terrorism does not apply because Cartels are not included in the legal definition of terrorism. This resolution does not apply in this instance.

Trump's EO pronouncing cartels to be terrorist organizations is invalid because cartels are not included in the US laws that define terrorism. Trump is doing labeling rather than observing or respecting the laws. His EO's as such do not apply in this instance because they are not valid legally or Constitutionally.

US Marines assigned to US Southern Command show the flag as they execute a security patrol in Panama. US Southern Command defends the Panama Canal, the Caribbean and Gulf coast "soft underbelly" of the US. Its Area of Responsibility includes the 31 countries south of Mexico and their offshore international air and waters. The current deployment off Venezuela is the Command's 8th military operation in its Area of Operations.



Each Potus/C'nC since the War Powers Resolution/Act of 1973 has rejected or, in the instances of Clinton and Obama, actively denied the authority of Congress over the presidency short of a formal declaration of war. Most immediately, Trump can cite the "inherent Constitutional authority" of the commander in chief to deploy and commit the armed forces to use lethal force as ordered to do by the commander in chief.

Currently Trump's only valid claim to do what's he's doing off Venezuela territorial waters is his "inherent Constitutional authority" as commander in chief. However, Trump has no basis in law or the Constitution to fire upon unarmed civilians no matter. Firing on unarmed civilians is a violation of US law, the international laws of warfare and the Fourth Geneva Convention -- and that's just for starters.

Internationally however the world is looking the other way, saying nothing against Trump's actions or saying very little. The 11 member Organization of East Caribbean States has said nothing about it. The Organization of American States of N America, Central America, S America remains silent. The EU remains focused on Europe. NATO has no business about it. The UN has noted the illegality of firing on unarmed civilians and gone about its daily business globally. Indeed, this isn't anyone's hill to die on.

 

[CaughtInThe]

What good reasons are there for not vaporizing drug smugglers in international waters in our own hemisphere?

Is that question for Christians?

If so then the answer is normally that you're not allowed to kill.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

LOL. What happened to the left's claim that the boat had no drugs? That narrative seems to be changing.

What happened to the right's claim to be Christians? Killing people because they might be drug traffickers....even after they surrendered?

MAGA Republicans are Nazis and that's just a fact.

 

[Airyaman]

Trump is a cold-blooded murderer and this is a war crime.

If the Democrats get control of Congress again, they need to impeach this murderer.

From The Intercept. --

The War Department has attempted to conceal numerous details about the attack that killed 11 people in the Caribbean, including the fact that the vessel altered its course and appeared to have turned back toward shore prior to the strikes. Men on board were said to have survived an initial strike, The Intercept reported last week. They were then killed shortly after in a follow-up attack.

“I’m incredibly disturbed by this new reporting that the Trump Administration launched multiple strikes on the boat off Venezuela,” Rep., Sara Jacobs, D-Calif., a member of the House Armed Services Committee’s Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations, said of The Intercept’s coverage. “They didn’t even bother to seek congressional authorization, bragged about these killings — and teased more to come.”

Pentagon Barred Senior House Staffers From Briefing on Venezuela Boat Strike

A former Pentagon official says “U.S. forces went out and committed murder" in the drone strike off the coast of Venezuela.

theintercept.com

Dead victims/witnesses can't talk.