Solid state batteries for EVs: 600 miles of range in 9 minutes?

[Flaming Capitalist]

Solid state batteries for EVs: 600 miles of range in 9 minutes?
6:39 am EDT Aug. 12, 2024

Solid State batteries

The challenges to mass adoption are substantial, but the benefits could be game-changing.

The phrase "what's under the hood" is rapidly reaching obsolescence. For cars powered by internal combustion, the engine is often the most important factor in the car's overall performance. But today, with EVs coming to the fore, that question is moot—and not just because what's usually under the hood is a variety of non-traditional components, and maybe a little storage.


For today's consumers contemplating the purchase of an EV, the single most important component is the battery. All mass-market EVs today rely on lithium-ion battery packs to power the electric motors that make them go. (Although the chemistry is sometimes different, lithium remains the key element.) Those batteries are large and heavy, often taking up the entire floor of the car; some even gobble up portions of the trunk and the transmission tunnel.

Today's batteries are also sensitive to temperature extremes, still charge slowly relative to gas fill-ups, degrade over time, and can turn into terrifyingly intense infernos. Although lithium-ion battery design has gotten far better in recent years (making individual cells far less explode-y), their fundamental structure means fire will always be a risk.

But there's a new type of battery in development that could revolutionize EV performance, resulting in packs that offer more energy at reduced weight and with less risk of explosion. They're called solid-state batteries, and although they hold a ton of potential, there are still a number of hurdles to overcome before they come to market.

Solid-State Battery Production Developments
Samsung Announces Battery Capable of 600 Miles of Range

August 3, 2024: At the SNE Battery Day in Seoul, South Korea, Samsung announced a solid-state battery product boasting the capability to deliver 600 miles of range, recharge in 9 minutes, and last for 20 years. The announcement was short on parameters for those claims, but the assumptions are that the pack itself was of average size and weight (the new batteries claim a 500Wh/kg gravimetric density, up from 150–220 for NMC and 90–160 for LFP). We also presume the charging was from 10 to 80 percent state of charge—not to a full charge, and that the DC fast-charging power rate was higher than currently available in North America (China has 480 and 600kW charging standards, while 350 is as high as we go for now).

 

[sanman]

Yeah, and solid state batteries are great for cold weather environments.

EV batteries always need to be warmed up before they can be used, due to their liquid electrolyte component

But solid state batteries of course have no liquid electrolyte. That makes them much more reliable in cold weather.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Yeah, and solid state batteries are great for cold weather environments.

EV batteries always need to be warmed up before they can be used, due to their liquid electrolyte component

But solid state batteries of course have no liquid electrolyte. That makes them much more reliable in cold weather.

EV's remind me of the once upon a time talk of communities on the moon. Pie in the sky with very little reality to them. EV's are great, if that's what you want. Telling Americans that they must own one, that auto makers must produce them, is build on liberal ideology. They are expensive, there is no infrastructure available to support the push to force them on the public, they have far too many problems for mass consumption.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Such news is a good reason not to buy current EVs with their inferior batteries. My biggest complaint with current battery powered tools/equipment is that each ‘brand’ uses a different battery and charger combination - which aren’t compatible (interchangeable) with other ‘brands’.

 

[longview]

Solid state batteries for EVs: 600 miles of range in 9 minutes?
6:39 am EDT Aug. 12, 2024

Solid State batteries

The challenges to mass adoption are substantial, but the benefits could be game-changing.

The phrase "what's under the hood" is rapidly reaching obsolescence. For cars powered by internal combustion, the engine is often the most important factor in the car's overall performance. But today, with EVs coming to the fore, that question is moot—and not just because what's usually under the hood is a variety of non-traditional components, and maybe a little storage.


For today's consumers contemplating the purchase of an EV, the single most important component is the battery. All mass-market EVs today rely on lithium-ion battery packs to power the electric motors that make them go. (Although the chemistry is sometimes different, lithium remains the key element.) Those batteries are large and heavy, often taking up the entire floor of the car; some even gobble up portions of the trunk and the transmission tunnel.

Today's batteries are also sensitive to temperature extremes, still charge slowly relative to gas fill-ups, degrade over time, and can turn into terrifyingly intense infernos. Although lithium-ion battery design has gotten far better in recent years (making individual cells far less explode-y), their fundamental structure means fire will always be a risk.

But there's a new type of battery in development that could revolutionize EV performance, resulting in packs that offer more energy at reduced weight and with less risk of explosion. They're called solid-state batteries, and although they hold a ton of potential, there are still a number of hurdles to overcome before they come to market.

Solid-State Battery Production Developments
Samsung Announces Battery Capable of 600 Miles of Range

August 3, 2024: At the SNE Battery Day in Seoul, South Korea, Samsung announced a solid-state battery product boasting the capability to deliver 600 miles of range, recharge in 9 minutes, and last for 20 years. The announcement was short on parameters for those claims, but the assumptions are that the pack itself was of average size and weight (the new batteries claim a 500Wh/kg gravimetric density, up from 150–220 for NMC and 90–160 for LFP). We also presume the charging was from 10 to 80 percent state of charge—not to a full charge, and that the DC fast-charging power rate was higher than currently available in North America (China has 480 and 600kW charging standards, while 350 is as high as we go for now).

Let's look at some numbers and see what they mean in real time.

600 miles of range in 9 minutes?

the new batteries claim a 500Wh/kg gravimetric density, up from 150–220 for NMC and 90–160 for LFP).

Now if we consider that 5 miles per kWh is very good efficiency, a 600 mile battery would contain 600/5 =120 kWh of capacity.
to charge 120 Kwh in 9 minuets at say the max DC voltage of 1000 volts at 792 amps.
This is like compressing 48 hours of a homes max electrical usage, into 9 minuets!

Battery electric cars may well hold a place in the future as a second vehicle, but unless the costs come way down, the primary
vehicle will likely still carry it's energy as hydrocarbon fuels.

It is always possible that battery technology will take some massive leap forward in technology, but we cannot count on that.

As of now if the best proposed batteries have an energy density of 500Wh/kg, we have to compare to the best
car that carries it's energy as hydrocarbon fuels.
A Toyota Camry Hybrid is said to have a Carnot efficiency of 39%, Gasoline contains 12,888.9 Wh/kg,
so the Camrey can extract 12,888.9 X 0.39 = 5,026 Wh/kg from gasoline.

As the technology evolves, it is not unreasonable to think about a fuel cell hybrid where the hydrogen is stripped off of
a hydrocarbon fuel as needed. Such a system could achieve an efficiency of nearly 60%.

 

[Flaming Capitalist]

EV's remind me of the once upon a time talk of communities on the moon. Pie in the sky with very little reality to them. EV's are great, if that's what you want. Telling Americans that they must own one, that auto makers must produce them, is build on liberal ideology. They are expensive, there is no infrastructure available to support the push to force them on the public, they have far too many problems for mass consumption.

But there are no communities on the moon and there are millions of EVs currently being driven on the roads. So there goes your comparison up in smoke.
I own a Tesla Model Y and I love it. And guess what. Nobody told me I must own one and I'm not a liberal. I didn't even get a cash incentive.
And they have far less problems than gas cars. I don't know where you get your info. Probably Jesse Waters on FoxNews. Am I right?

 

[longview]

But there are no communities on the moon and there are millions of EVs currently being driven on the roads. So there goes your comparison up in smoke.
I own a Tesla Model Y and I love it. And guess what. Nobody told me I must own one and I'm not a liberal. I didn't even get a cash incentive.
And they have far less problems than gas cars. I don't know where you get your info. Probably Jesse Waters on FoxNews. Am I right?

The beauty of freedom, is that everyone gets to choose what that think is best for themselves!
The problem is when governments make requirements that limits peoples choices.

 

[sanman]

EV's remind me of the once upon a time talk of communities on the moon. Pie in the sky with very little reality to them. EV's are great, if that's what you want. Telling Americans that they must own one, that auto makers must produce them, is build on liberal ideology. They are expensive, there is no infrastructure available to support the push to force them on the public, they have far too many problems for mass consumption.

Lefties are ideologically bankrupt, and furthermore the Cold War Military-Industrial Complex & Deep State sees its future as being with them because it needs them to help it maintain & expand its control, to facilitate foreign wars.

So together they're always pushing for newer pretexts to expand govt power.

"We need green energy! Now! Or we'll all die in a few weeks!"

The legacy mainstream media have been steadily losing revenues due to the rise of the internet and content streaming, which totally wrecks their pre-existing distribution monopolies in broadcast and cable.
So they're likewise ready-for-hire by the other two, because they need a Sugar Daddy to help them stay afloat.
So they'll parrot whatever they're told to.

So it's a synergy of corrupt factions who've come together due to common interests.

 

[Flaming Capitalist]

The beauty of freedom, is that everyone gets to choose what that think is best for themselves!
The problem is when governments make requirements that limits peoples choices.

Are you allowed to drive a tank on the highway? How about a tricycle? Government limits people's choices for the greater good of the people and have been doing it for centuries.

 

[Mr Person]

Telling Americans that they must own one, that auto makers must produce them, is build on liberal ideology.

Nobody has been told either of those things. What's with the endless lying?

 

[Noodlegawd]

The problem is when governments make requirements that limits peoples choices.

Like prohibiting school libraries from carrying books about LGBTQ issues, or prohibiting people from having abortions?

 

[longview]

Are you allowed to drive a tank on the highway? How about a tricycle? Government limits people's choices for the greater good of the people and have been doing it for centuries.

So what greater good would happen if the government required all cars to be battery electric?

 

[Noodlegawd]

"We need green energy! Now! Or we'll all die in a few weeks!"

Nobody is actually saying that. Believe it or not, many people like to plan beyond a few weeks, or even a few years. Lots of people even believe that it's more important to worry about whether our climate will be livable in 50-100 years, than if 14 year olds see drawings of boobies in the school library.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Like prohibiting school libraries from carrying books about LGBTQ issues, or prohibiting people from having abortions?

Move out of those ‘icky’ states.

 

[longview]

Like prohibiting school libraries from carrying books about LGBTQ issues, or prohibiting people from having abortions?

I think Republican positions on many topics are stupid, Do you agree with EVERYTHING the Democrats support?

 

[longview]

Nobody is actually saying that. Believe it or not, many people like to plan beyond a few weeks, or even a few years. Lots of people even believe that it's more important to worry about whether our climate will be livable in 50-100 years, than if 14 year olds see drawings of boobies in the school library.

So how do you think a battery electric car mandate will change whether our climate is livable in 50-100 years?

 

[Noodlegawd]

I think Republican positions on many topics are stupid, Do you agree with EVERYTHING the Democrats support?

No, I disagree with most things that Democrats support.

 

[Noodlegawd]

So how do you think a battery electric car mandate will change whether our climate is livable in 50-100 years?

I didn't say that it would.

 

[longview]

No, I disagree with most things that Democrats support.

And I think Republicans would have broader support if they backed off on their abortion stance!

 

[longview]

I didn't say that it would.

That is what is implied by what you said!

Lots of people even believe that it's more important to worry about whether our climate will be livable in 50-100 years,

 

[ttwtt78640]

So how do you think a battery electric car mandate will change whether our climate is livable in 50-100 years?

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[Noodlegawd]

That is what is implied by what you said!

No it's not. I didn't say anything about battery electric EVs in that comment.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

EV's remind me of the once upon a time talk of communities on the moon. Pie in the sky with very little reality to them. EV's are great, if that's what you want. Telling Americans that they must own one, that auto makers must produce them, is build on liberal ideology. They are expensive, there is no infrastructure available to support the push to force them on the public, they have far too many problems for mass consumption.

You need to get on the curve as you’re way behind it now. I have a gas powered car because my former business had me on the road for extended periods and I still travel by car for vacations as I stay for extended periods and flying when a long term car rental is involved at the other end isn’t practical. Better to drive and have my own car for the month or two I’m away.

That stated a 600 mile range with 9 minute “refueling” makes EV practical for those conditions.

It’s the change, if it’s real, that will cause the paradigm shift that will make the combustion engine yesterday’s tech. Outmoded. A museum piece.

 

[The AntiDonald]

The beauty of freedom, is that everyone gets to choose what that think is best for themselves!
The problem is when governments make requirements that limits peoples choices.

If we don't start taking care of our planet, there won't be a need to drive anywhere. Something has to change, or we will burn up. The argument is not if, but when will this happen? I'm quite confident it won't happen in my lifetime because I'm nearly 70. What about our kids and grandkids?

It seems quite selfish to me to just keep burning the shit out of fossil fuels when we can readily see the planet warming.

 

[ttwtt78640]

No it's not. I didn't say anything about battery electric EVs in that comment.

OK, but it was made in a thread about that topic.