- Joined
- Mar 21, 2016
- Messages
- 12,210
- Reaction score
- 7,341
- Location
- Charleston, SC
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Left
https://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news/witness-homeowner-killed-during-north-charleston-home-invasion
A sad tragedy. This man was a member of one of those neighborhood chat groups on facebook I'm in. I've never met the man, but his facebook page is filled with right-wing propaganda and just one week before this happened shared a video of Archie Bunker railing on gun control. The details from the article are sparse, but from what I understand at least two men entered his home around 1 in the morning, and this guy tried to play Dirty Harry only to end up getting himself shot and killed. Police believe it was a random event. A couple of thugs were likely looking for a quick score. Trying to grab a laptop a cell phone some loose change laying around. They probably didn't even think the guy was home and would have easily left without incident had he not surprised them and confronted them. This guy was a military vet. He knew how to handle guns. He knew the layout of his home better than the intruders, yet he still lost the fight.
It's obviously sad, but this is the reality you face when you decide you're going to protect your stuff. Obviously, we can't know everything that happened here, but if he stayed out of sight and just yelled at them to leave from another room they probably would have bolted once they realized someone was home. Anything he might have lost would have been covered by homeowners insurance. Instead, he tried to be a hero and lost his life.
So to recap, the odds of having your home broken into are already insanely low. Even if your home is broken into, odds are very low you'll be home.
Even if you're home your odds of even getting to your gun aren't good unless you keep it loaded and on your person at all times. If you do that though you're at risk of an accidental shooting that could result in the death of yourself or a loved one. And even if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time with your loaded gun ready to defend yourself you're still starting a shootout inside your home that you could easily lose no matter how good you think you are with your gun.
Your best defense in a home invasion is not a gun. It's a deadbolt, a motion sensor light, a decent sized dog with a loud bark, and an understanding that unless you have specific enemies they are almost certainly not here to kill you.
Right, and your odds of dying from a single round of Russian Roulette are only 1 out of 6, but I wouldn't recommend playing it if you don't have to.You realize this isn't how it happens every time, right? It's a single anecdote.
There are over 300 million people in the united states. That puts your odds at about 1 in 300, and that's ignoring the reality that most of those burglaries happened because someone left a door unlocked, didn't have a dog, and didn't have a motion sensor light.According to the DOJ report "Victimization During Household Burglary," there are 3.7 million burglaries each year with 1 million of them happening when someone is home.
It is when you acknowledge the reality that the 7% was almost exclusively made up of people who tried to defend their laptop." In 7% of all household burglaries, a household member experienced some form of violent victimization". That's a far cry from insanely low odds.
You just gave me the data that supported what I said. That's an even worse debate method.You keep saying "odds are low" or "risk is high" with no data to back that up. That's a poor debate method.
Nope, just 99.999999% of them. So when you factor in the odds that keeping a loaded gun in your home at all times puts you at a risk for an accidental shooting it becomes quite clear that your odds are better without the gun.That's a good plan, but you can't claim it's the "best defense" for every situation.
Right, but it means that the odds of your gun being used in self-defense are smaller than the odds that it will be the thing that gets you killed. So if you want to increase your odds of survival don't keep a loaded gun in your house.That doesn't mean that a gun will never be used in self-defense.
You seem to be making many assumptions about the intentions of those who broke in. Multiple people breaking into a home in the middle of the night means they likely knew someone was home and brought a backup just in case.
Actually, it really is nobody else’s business why I have guns.
Right. "backup just in case." Those are the key words here. They didn't come there to kill this guy. They came for his stuff. They brought a gun just in case the homeowner tried to play Dirty Harry. If he wouldn't have they would not have used their "backup."
https://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news/witness-homeowner-killed-during-north-charleston-home-invasion
A sad tragedy. This man was a member of one of those neighborhood chat groups on facebook I'm in. I've never met the man, but his facebook page is filled with right-wing propaganda and just one week before this happened shared a video of Archie Bunker railing on gun control. The details from the article are sparse, but from what I understand at least two men entered his home around 1 in the morning, and this guy tried to play Dirty Harry only to end up getting himself shot and killed. Police believe it was a random event. A couple of thugs were likely looking for a quick score. Trying to grab a laptop a cell phone some loose change laying around. They probably didn't even think the guy was home and would have easily left without incident had he not surprised them and confronted them. This guy was a military vet. He knew how to handle guns. He knew the layout of his home better than the intruders, yet he still lost the fight.
It's obviously sad, but this is the reality you face when you decide you're going to protect your stuff. Obviously, we can't know everything that happened here, but if he stayed out of sight and just yelled at them to leave from another room they probably would have bolted once they realized someone was home. Anything he might have lost would have been covered by homeowners insurance. Instead, he tried to be a hero and lost his life.
So to recap, the odds of having your home broken into are already insanely low. Even if your home is broken into, odds are very low you'll be home. Even if you're home your odds of even getting to your gun aren't good unless you keep it loaded and on your person at all times. If you do that though you're at risk of an accidental shooting that could result in the death of yourself or a loved one. And even if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time with your loaded gun ready to defend yourself you're still starting a shootout inside your home that you could easily lose no matter how good you think you are with your gun.
Your best defense in a home invasion is not a gun. It's a deadbolt, a motion sensor light, a decent sized dog with a loud bark, and an understanding that unless you have specific enemies they are almost certainly not here to kill you.
How do you know they didn't intend to kill anyone inside? Would be nice if you could use your mind reading abilities for the greater good and join the police force.
What's the matter are you running out of good excuses for your bad choices?
You want to roll over on your back and piss yourself waiting for the cops to come save you or HOPING that they will 'just' beat the **** out of you or maybe rape someone important to you...
be my guest. I only hope if something bad DOES happen to you it will ONLY happen to you, and if there is anyone else in your home a neighbor or someone else is around to come to their aid.
Would Bruce Willis, Sly Stallone, and Chuck Norris depend on deadbolts, motion sensors, and yapping dogs to deter the evil that lurks out there? I think not.
Police will generally tell you the same thing. It's not about reading minds it's about understanding the odds. Most of these crimes are committed by desperate poverty-stricken people or druggies that need a fix. If you're a young woman living alone I might be a bit more concerned, but this was a 54-year-old guy. Unless he had specific enemies(which is at least somewhat possible, it sounds like he might have been a slumlord) it's highly unlikely they came for him. Safer ways of wacking a guy than this.
What about his choices would be bad?
What's the matter are you running out of good excuses for your bad choices?
Right, and your odds of dying from a single round of Russian Roulette are only 1 out of 6, but I wouldn't recommend playing it if you don't have to.
No, there are about 126 million households - People don't always live alone. Please prove "most of those burglaries happened because someone left a door unlocked, didn't have a dog, and didn't have a motion sensor light". Your lack of supporting data has been mentioned before.There are over 300 million people in the united states. That puts your odds at about 1 in 300, and that's ignoring the reality that most of those burglaries happened because someone left a door unlocked, didn't have a dog, and didn't have a motion sensor light.
As soon as you provided any data supporting this claim, I can acknowledge it. You are not a trustworthy source. Were the rape victims in the BJS report raped for defending a laptop?It is when you acknowledge the reality that the 7% was almost exclusively made up of people who tried to defend their laptop.
No, the BJS report supports none of your claims.You just gave me the data that supported what I said. That's an even worse debate method.
Nope, just 99.999999% of them. So when you factor in the odds that keeping a loaded gun in your home at all times puts you at a risk for an accidental shooting it becomes quite clear that your odds are better without the gun.
Right, but it means that the odds of your gun being used in self-defense are smaller than the odds that it will be the thing that gets you killed. So if you want to increase your odds of survival don't keep a loaded gun in your house.
The odds of him using it for anything beneficial are lower than the odds of it being used for something tragic. In a cost-benefit analysis when the costs outweigh the benefits you consider that a bad investment choice.
Yeah, that's where the lights, deadbolt, and the dog come in handy. Unless you have a specific enemy you're worried about like a violent ex-boyfriend or something these types of people want low hanging fruit. They want easy targets. Poorly lit streets, poorly lit porches, unlocked doors, open windows, bartenders taking out the garbage in a dark alley after the close.I don't disagree with the odds, however, I also don't deny the reality that there are people who place no value on life who will rape/kill you and your family if given the opportunity.
The odds of him using it for anything beneficial are lower than the odds of it being used for something tragic. In a cost-benefit analysis when the costs outweigh the benefits you consider that a bad investment choice.
You realize these people are in movies right? Movies aren't real.
https://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news/witness-homeowner-killed-during-north-charleston-home-invasion
A sad tragedy. This man was a member of one of those neighborhood chat groups on facebook I'm in. I've never met the man, but his facebook page is filled with right-wing propaganda and just one week before this happened shared a video of Archie Bunker railing on gun control. The details from the article are sparse, but from what I understand at least two men entered his home around 1 in the morning, and this guy tried to play Dirty Harry only to end up getting himself shot and killed. Police believe it was a random event. A couple of thugs were likely looking for a quick score. Trying to grab a laptop a cell phone some loose change laying around. They probably didn't even think the guy was home and would have easily left without incident had he not surprised them and confronted them. This guy was a military vet. He knew how to handle guns. He knew the layout of his home better than the intruders, yet he still lost the fight.
It's obviously sad, but this is the reality you face when you decide you're going to protect your stuff. Obviously, we can't know everything that happened here, but if he stayed out of sight and just yelled at them to leave from another room they probably would have bolted once they realized someone was home. Anything he might have lost would have been covered by homeowners insurance. Instead, he tried to be a hero and lost his life.
So to recap, the odds of having your home broken into are already insanely low. Even if your home is broken into, odds are very low you'll be home. Even if you're home your odds of even getting to your gun aren't good unless you keep it loaded and on your person at all times. If you do that though you're at risk of an accidental shooting that could result in the death of yourself or a loved one. And even if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time with your loaded gun ready to defend yourself you're still starting a shootout inside your home that you could easily lose no matter how good you think you are with your gun.
Your best defense in a home invasion is not a gun. It's a deadbolt, a motion sensor light, a decent sized dog with a loud bark, and an understanding that unless you have specific enemies they are almost certainly not here to kill you.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?