So Where Was This New Tough Democratic Party Back When They Actually Had A Chance To STOP Trump???

[redbeer]

You have to give it to the hapless Democratic Party.....they are always a day late and a dollar short.

While I'm happy that the Democratic Party appears....finally....to be willing to go all out with redistricting/gerrymandering to counter Trump and the Republican Party's fascism, it's depressing to contemplate what might have been. --

1) What if Joe Biden had put his foot up timid Merrick Garland's ass back in 2021 and forced him to investigate and prosecute Trump aggressively? Instead of waiting 2 1/2 years until August 2023 to finally bring charges against Trump? Biden and Garland, inexplicably and incompetently, allowed Trump to run out the clock. They actually gave legitimacy to Trump by failing to prosecute him much more quickly.

2) What if the Democrats had been bolder in 2021 and gotten rid of the filibuster completely? Then they could have made new states out of DC and Puerto Rico....thus increasing their number of Senate seats and House seats. That sure would have been nice for blocking the horrible new Big Ugly Bill. Not to mention blocking horrendously unqualified Trump stooges from getting confirmed....like Pete Hegseth.

3) What if the Democrats had added two more seats to the Supreme Courts? It would have been completely fair.....after all, Mitch McConnell stole 2 Supreme Court seats from the Democrats in 2016 and 2020.


There is really no excuse for Biden and the Democratic Party's craven, vacillating behavior during the past 4 years. Bold action was required to save this country from Trump and this deranged, dangerous MAGA movement and they completely failed.

It was obvious after Jan 6 what Trump is -- a deranged, fascist traitor and a domestic terrorist. The Democratic Party knew this for 4 years and did not do nearly enough to save this country from him.

1) Should of attacked political opposition sooner, faster, and harder.

2) End the filibuster completely, even though the democrats used it hundreds of times during Trump's first term.

3) Expand the Supreme Court by two seats.


If there's any party which doesn't like elections, here's the proof and evidence, lol. They give 'democracy' a bad name.

 

[Cameron]

You have to give it to the hapless Democratic Party.....they are always a day late and a dollar short.

While I'm happy that the Democratic Party appears....finally....to be willing to go all out with redistricting/gerrymandering to counter Trump and the Republican Party's fascism, it's depressing to contemplate what might have been. --

1) What if Joe Biden had put his foot up timid Merrick Garland's ass back in 2021 and forced him to investigate and prosecute Trump aggressively? Instead of waiting 2 1/2 years until August 2023 to finally bring charges against Trump? Biden and Garland, inexplicably and incompetently, allowed Trump to run out the clock. They actually gave legitimacy to Trump by failing to prosecute him much more quickly.

2) What if the Democrats had been bolder in 2021 and gotten rid of the filibuster completely? Then they could have made new states out of DC and Puerto Rico....thus increasing their number of Senate seats and House seats. That sure would have been nice for blocking the horrible new Big Ugly Bill. Not to mention blocking horrendously unqualified Trump stooges from getting confirmed....like Pete Hegseth.

3) What if the Democrats had added two more seats to the Supreme Courts? It would have been completely fair.....after all, Mitch McConnell stole 2 Supreme Court seats from the Democrats in 2016 and 2020.


There is really no excuse for Biden and the Democratic Party's craven, vacillating behavior during the past 4 years. Bold action was required to save this country from Trump and this deranged, dangerous MAGA movement and they completely failed.

It was obvious after Jan 6 what Trump is -- a deranged, fascist traitor and a domestic terrorist. The Democratic Party knew this for 4 years and did not do nearly enough to save this country from him.

I understand the urge to fight fire with fire, and a redistricting war may be unavoidable however much I hate it. But if both sides keep racing to the bottom in order to stay in power we will be in civil war by 2035.

 

[multivita-man]

You have to give it to the hapless Democratic Party.....they are always a day late and a dollar short.

While I'm happy that the Democratic Party appears....finally....to be willing to go all out with redistricting/gerrymandering to counter Trump and the Republican Party's fascism, it's depressing to contemplate what might have been. --

1) What if Joe Biden had put his foot up timid Merrick Garland's ass back in 2021 and forced him to investigate and prosecute Trump aggressively? Instead of waiting 2 1/2 years until August 2023 to finally bring charges against Trump? Biden and Garland, inexplicably and incompetently, allowed Trump to run out the clock. They actually gave legitimacy to Trump by failing to prosecute him much more quickly.

2) What if the Democrats had been bolder in 2021 and gotten rid of the filibuster completely? Then they could have made new states out of DC and Puerto Rico....thus increasing their number of Senate seats and House seats. That sure would have been nice for blocking the horrible new Big Ugly Bill. Not to mention blocking horrendously unqualified Trump stooges from getting confirmed....like Pete Hegseth.

3) What if the Democrats had added two more seats to the Supreme Courts? It would have been completely fair.....after all, Mitch McConnell stole 2 Supreme Court seats from the Democrats in 2016 and 2020.


There is really no excuse for Biden and the Democratic Party's craven, vacillating behavior during the past 4 years. Bold action was required to save this country from Trump and this deranged, dangerous MAGA movement and they completely failed.

It was obvious after Jan 6 what Trump is -- a deranged, fascist traitor and a domestic terrorist. The Democratic Party knew this for 4 years and did not do nearly enough to save this country from him.

Not sure #1 would have changed anything, but maybe it would have. I still think we'd be polarized. Biden still would have been dealing with inflation in the wake of post-pandemic spending and rising energy and materials costs as a result of Russia's invasion of Ukraine (which his administration sparked). He'd still have been unpopular. Maybe we should ask what if Joe Biden had said what he indicated he would do during his campaign and let a new generation of Democrats compete for the leadership of the party and the presidency in a real competition of ideals.

I absolutely agree with #2. They should have gotten rid of the filibuster, and I'm still pissed that Biden, with his bullshit love of the Senate, defended it. They

Adding more seats to the high court? I don't think they had the ability to do it, and it's not something Americans are generally in favor of, IMO.

 

[CaughtInThe]

It's the Governors.

Jeffries must go.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

1) Should of attacked political opposition sooner, faster, and harder.

2) End the filibuster completely, even though the democrats used it hundreds of times during Trump's first term.

3) Expand the Supreme Court by two seats.


If there's any party which doesn't like elections, here's the proof and evidence, lol. They give 'democracy' a bad name.

This doesn't have anything to do with free and fair elections. It's about the Democratic Party protecting this country from the domestic terrorist Trump.

 

[Luce]

It's the Governors.

Jeffries must go.

Also Schumer the bitch.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

I understand the urge to fight fire with fire, and a redistricting war may be unavoidable however much I hate it. But if both sides keep racing to the bottom in order to stay in power we will be in civil war by 2035.

How is this racing to the bottom? I'm not talking about gerrymandering.

 

[TobyOne]

All they had to do was be normal. But the just couldn't.

 

[ataraxia]

All they had to do was be normal. But the just couldn't.

Do you mean kept women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? Or colored people in their own neighborhoods where they belong?

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

I disagree on your stolen or the use of the word stolen when it comes to the SCOTUS. In 2016 the republicans had a 54-46 advantage. If McConnell had allowed a vote on Garland, the GOP had more than enough votes to reject Garland’s confirmation. I don’t have the faintest idea why McConnell didn’t let Garland have a floor vote. That was stupid in my opinion. Although it may have been payback to 2007 when Schumer declared the democrats wouldn’t take up a Bush nominee for the SCOTUS in his last year if a vacancy occurred. Very partisan Politicians have long memories.

Not even allowing a floor vote was McConnell's biggest sin in 2016. And the simple fact is that those 54 Republican Senators had no legitimate reason to block Garland's confirmation -- he was qualified for the job. 2016 was way before the total MAGA Repug insanity of 2025.

And you're also forgetting that McConnell said in 2016 that new SCOTUS justices should not be confirmed during presidential election years. But he completely reversed his position in 2020 with Amy Comey Barrett....a few weeks before the 2020 election That is as hypocritical as it gets and unforgiveable.

Yes, McConnell stole two Supreme Court seats.

In 2020 Biden didn’t nominate anyone, he wasn’t even president then. Trump was. Biden didn’t take office until 20 Jan 2021. Bottom line, no SCOTUS nomination was stolen in 2020. As for why Biden didn’t have Garland indict Trump 2 ½ years early, I don’t know, but he should have.

Doing away with the filibuster? Haven’t the democrats learned anything by Ex-Democratic Majority Leader Senator Harry Reid first use and precedence setting use of the nuclear option. How’d that work out?

I just explained in post #1 that Democrats could have ended the filibuster in 2021 or 2022 and used it to their advantage. -- to protect voting rights and possibly prevent Trump from becoming president again. Who knows how much Republican voter suppression tactics hurt Harris in the 2024 election, but it's possible that Republican voter suppression helped Trump win in 2024.

Doing away with the filibuster would probably have the same outcome. That would simply mean any party of the president who also has control of the house and senate could repeal any law they have a mind to.

This doesn't matter anymore. That's the whole point. Trump is going to do whatever the **** he wants, filibuster or no filibuster. That's why the Democrats should have done everything they could have to save democracy during 2021 - 2022 when they still had the chance.

Democrats knew the threat posed by Trump and they were too weak to act on it. Surprising to no one.

Democrats thinking "long term" doesn't matter when Trump is a short term threat and is more than capable of permanently ending democracy in this country. You don't have the luxury of thinking "long term" when dealing with a domestic terrorist like Trump.

 

[ataraxia]

Not even allowing a floor vote was McConnell's biggest sin in 2016. And the simple fact is that those 54 Republican Senators had no legitimate reason to block Garland's confirmation -- he was qualified for the job. 2016 was way before the total MAGA Repug insanity of 2025.

And you're also forgetting that McConnell said in 2016 that new SCOTUS justices should not be confirmed during presidential election years. But he completely reversed his position in 2020 with Amy Comey Barrett....a few weeks before the 2020 election That is as hypocritical as it gets and unforgiveable.

Yes, McConnell stole two Supreme Court seats.



I just explained in post #1 that Democrats could have ended the filibuster in 2021 or 2022 and used it to their advantage. -- to protect voting rights and possibly prevent Trump from becoming president again. Who knows how much Republican voter suppression tactics hurt Harris in the 2024 election, but it's possible that Republican voter suppression helped Trump win in 2024.



This doesn't matter anymore. That's the whole point. Trump is going to do whatever the **** he wants, filibuster or no filibuster. That's why the Democrats should have done everything they could have to save democracy during 2021 - 2022 when they still had the chance.

Democrats knew the threat posed by Trump and they were too weak to act on it. Surprising to no one.

Democrats thinking "long term" doesn't matter when Trump is a short term threat and is more than capable of permanently ending democracy in this country. You don't have the luxury of thinking "long term" when dealing with a domestic terrorist like Trump.

In a democracy, people get what they want and deserve. I think it’s OK for America to FAFO and get this out of their system.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

In a democracy, people get what they want and deserve. I think it’s OK for America to FAFO and get this out of their system.

I agree to an extent.....although they may never get a chance to correct their mistake in the future.

At the end of the day, I guess those 50% of Americans who voted for Trump deserve what happens to them. They knew the risks, especially after Jan 6.

 

[Diving Mullah]

You have to give it to the hapless Democratic Party.....they are always a day late and a dollar short.

While I'm happy that the Democratic Party appears....finally....to be willing to go all out with redistricting/gerrymandering to counter Trump and the Republican Party's fascism, it's depressing to contemplate what might have been. --

1) What if Joe Biden had put his foot up timid Merrick Garland's ass back in 2021 and forced him to investigate and prosecute Trump aggressively? Instead of waiting 2 1/2 years until August 2023 to finally bring charges against Trump? Biden and Garland, inexplicably and incompetently, allowed Trump to run out the clock. They actually gave legitimacy to Trump by failing to prosecute him much more quickly.

2) What if the Democrats had been bolder in 2021 and gotten rid of the filibuster completely? Then they could have made new states out of DC and Puerto Rico....thus increasing their number of Senate seats and House seats. That sure would have been nice for blocking the horrible new Big Ugly Bill. Not to mention blocking horrendously unqualified Trump stooges from getting confirmed....like Pete Hegseth.

3) What if the Democrats had added two more seats to the Supreme Courts? It would have been completely fair.....after all, Mitch McConnell stole 2 Supreme Court seats from the Democrats in 2016 and 2020.


There is really no excuse for Biden and the Democratic Party's craven, vacillating behavior during the past 4 years. Bold action was required to save this country from Trump and this deranged, dangerous MAGA movement and they completely failed.

It was obvious after Jan 6 what Trump is -- a deranged, fascist traitor and a domestic terrorist. The Democratic Party knew this for 4 years and did not do nearly enough to save this country from him.

This is actually the best thing that could possibly happen to the Democratic Party.

I get it — for many country‑loving, patriotic Democrats and liberals, it’s hard to watch the motherland laid open and ass raped by Trump and MAGA. It’s cringe‑worthy, sure, but it might also be the path forward.

Trump brought to bear every ridiculous, off‑the‑wall, unhinged ideology and doctrine of the Republicans and MAGA right out in the open. For better or worse, he has shone the light, and MAGA cockroach politicians and their followers are out in the full light. In doing so, he’s unleashed a flood of chaos across the people, the country, the economy, and our standing in the world. He has shown the true dark color of the US that we had managed to hide for decades, if not a century!

But we’re stronger. We’ll crawl out of the sewage — like the triumphant scene in The Shawshank Redemption — while MAGA is left flailing, bashing each other with coconuts in their own deranged little world.

In order to get rid of a tumor, first you need to find it. Well, here it is it wears a MAGA hat!

Diving Mullah

 

[Mithrae]

In a way, it’s good for these Republicans to do a Trump FAFO tour for another 4 years. COVID in the first term really didn’t give anyone a good look at him. But this time around, I am suspecting enough of them will eventually be hurt and sick enough of his “Golden Age” that they will turn on the GOP once and for all.

If the Dems had been more forceful, there would always have been this sense of romanticizing and idealizing “what might have been”. Let them really get it good and hard so they don’t keep getting nostalgic.

“Democracy is the idea that the common man knows what’s good for him, and he deserves to get it good and hard.”
-HL Mencken

You seem to be assuming that there won't be much effect from Republican efforts to 'secure' future elections.

Even if there do happen to be free and fair elections in the future, and even if the propaganda saturation and values ratchet effects* are insufficient to retain Republican voters, what you are describing is just a licence for the Democratic Party to remain an unwaveringly center-right plutocracy-lite party. They literally spent tens of millions of dollars promoting fascism / MAGA candidates for exactly that reason, to be the unequivocal 'lesser evil.'

I wouldn't exactly rejoice about that even on the slim off-chance that a Trump-ravaged America ends up it making through and rejecting the Republicans entirely.



* A range of related effects, but essentially right-wing policies entrench right-wing values in a society; a harsh government creating a climate of deprivation and fear normalizes callousness towards others at an individual level also, enhances xenophobic, tribalist and selfish instincts, and causes people to prioritize deficit values like perceived security.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Not if we passed laws that limited campaign contributions.

Something else that the make-believe bold Democratic Party could have done during the past 4 years.....after getting rid of the filibuster.

From my perspective the presidency of late is bought not won.

Runaway campaign finance laws, cloudy reporting, jerrymandering and outright cheating.

Canada has strict campaign contribution restrictions AND spending limits, the argument being if the party can't get out the vote without $$$$ they don't deserve to sit. some say in this day and age they are too strict...I say they are too generous, but then I figure removing party affiliation from the ballot will make candidates more humble.

 

[Mithrae]

You have to give it to the hapless Democratic Party.....they are always a day late and a dollar short.

While I'm happy that the Democratic Party appears....finally....to be willing to go all out with redistricting/gerrymandering to counter Trump and the Republican Party's fascism, it's depressing to contemplate what might have been. --

1) What if Joe Biden had put his foot up timid Merrick Garland's ass back in 2021 and forced him to investigate and prosecute Trump aggressively? Instead of waiting 2 1/2 years until August 2023 to finally bring charges against Trump? Biden and Garland, inexplicably and incompetently, allowed Trump to run out the clock. They actually gave legitimacy to Trump by failing to prosecute him much more quickly.

2) What if the Democrats had been bolder in 2021 and gotten rid of the filibuster completely? Then they could have made new states out of DC and Puerto Rico....thus increasing their number of Senate seats and House seats. That sure would have been nice for blocking the horrible new Big Ugly Bill. Not to mention blocking horrendously unqualified Trump stooges from getting confirmed....like Pete Hegseth.

3) What if the Democrats had added two more seats to the Supreme Courts? It would have been completely fair.....after all, Mitch McConnell stole 2 Supreme Court seats from the Democrats in 2016 and 2020.


There is really no excuse for Biden and the Democratic Party's craven, vacillating behavior during the past 4 years. Bold action was required to save this country from Trump and this deranged, dangerous MAGA movement and they completely failed.

It was obvious after Jan 6 what Trump is -- a deranged, fascist traitor and a domestic terrorist. The Democratic Party knew this for 4 years and did not do nearly enough to save this country from him.

Agreed in general, though I don't really agree with #3; starting a SCOTUS tit-for-tat in 2021 was a bad idea even if they could have done so, and while I would have favoured returning to the historical matching of SCOTUS seats to the 13 circuit courts if the Democrats had received a 'mandate' in 2022 following the overturning of women's constitutional rights, that didn't end up happening.

But as I've posted dozens of times since the election and I'm sure will post dozens of times again, the Trump-era Democratic Party (for the most part) can best be summed up by the fact that instead of vigorously opposing the spread of fascism in America, even in 2022 after the insurrection attempt and it was abundantly clear that Trump's support remained unwavering, they still went out of their way to spend tens of millions of dollars actively promoting fascism / MAGA candidates under the apparent assumption that people would have to vote for them then! Politicians and strategists trying to hold their voters to ransom under the threat of fascism... utter scum, even if it had worked out.

The Democrats are purposely boosting far-right Republicans. This will backfire | Hamilton Nolan

Democratic strategists have spent millions of dollars to aid extremists, on the theory they’ll be easier to defeat in the general election. We will all live with the consequences

www.theguardian.com

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Agreed in general, though I don't really agree with #3; starting a SCOTUS tit-for-tat in 2021 was a bad idea even if they could have done so, and while I would have favoured returning to the historical matching of SCOTUS seats to the 13 circuit courts if the Democrats had received a 'mandate' in 2022 following the overturning of women's constitutional rights, that didn't end up happening.

But as I've posted dozens of times since the election and I'm sure will post dozens of times again, the Trump-era Democratic Party (for the most part) can best be summed up by the fact that instead of vigorously opposing the spread of fascism in America, even in 2022 after the insurrection attempt and it was abundantly clear that Trump's support remained unwavering, they still went out of their way to spend tens of millions of dollars actively promoting fascism / MAGA candidates under the apparent assumption that people would have to vote for them then! Politicians and strategists trying to hold their voters to ransom under the threat of fascism... utter scum, even if it had worked out.

The Democrats are purposely boosting far-right Republicans. This will backfire | Hamilton Nolan

Democratic strategists have spent millions of dollars to aid extremists, on the theory they’ll be easier to defeat in the general election. We will all live with the consequences

www.theguardian.com

Except Democrats didn't start the "SCOTUS tit-for-tat".....McConnell did.

Corrective action to address McConnell's slimeball moves is not a "tit-for-tat".

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

This is actually the best thing that could possibly happen to the Democratic Party.

Possibly. Only if democracy survives what Trump is doing.....and I have my doubts.

I won't be surprised if Trump and the Republicans steal every House seat in TX and FL in 2026.....even the House seats that are in heavily Democratic districts.

Who is going to stop them?

 

[TobyOne]