Single payer, higher wait times, more suffering. The Democrats want this for America.

[Renae]

The Fraser Institute, a well-respected think tank in Vancouver, British Columbia, has tracked waiting times for patients to receive healthcare in Canada for the past 20 years. It surveys specialist physicians across 12 specialties throughout Canada. The institute recently released the waiting list data for 2018. Americans interested in single-payer healthcare will find it sobering.The median time for specialty treatment after a patient was referred by a primary care doctor in 2018 was 20 weeks. Saskatchewan had the lowest wait at 15 weeks; the high was New Brunswick at 45 weeks, which is nearly a year.
On average, patients waited nine weeks to see a specialist, then waited an additional 11 weeks to receive treatment. Only 12 percent of delays in treatment were at the patient’s request.
There were also delays in diagnostic procedures. In 2018, Canadians waited four weeks to receive a CT scan or an ultrasound, and 10 weeks to receive an MRI.

Single payer means long waits for care

Yeah, I wanna wait weeks on end, for treatment, all of it "FREE!"

 

[jaeger19]

Single payer means long waits for care

Yeah, I wanna wait weeks on end, for treatment, all of it "FREE!"

If you are in the 10% or so of americans that don't have insurance.. well yes..you would want single payer.

You would.

 

[Renae]

If you are in the 10% or so of americans that don't have insurance.. well yes..you would want single payer.

You would.

I'm not. I would work to not be there not demand others cover me.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Where are we getting the impression that our current system has shorter wait times?
Sorry, but unless you go to a place like St. John's Medical in Santa Monica or some similar small private hospital, you aren't necessarily enjoying shorter wait times.

Trump thought that shunting more disabled vets into the private sector would show off the difference between VA wait times and the outside world, till it turned out that they were dealing with EVEN LONGER wait times out there than in most VA facilities.

 

[Drawdown]

After the election in the UK I was reading through some of the SaveMyNHS tweets. People don't get that their "free insurance" is paid for by marking up costs on everything from the food they consume to the income they receive all for horrible care compared to the US, but we are the evil ones because it isn't "free". Some of them were quite sad but the people also were quite deluded. Yes we have to do better at closing the last 10%, but really our healthcare model as a whole is pretty damned good at delivering services. If I go to the ER and need an MRI, CAT scan, or any of the usual testing, odds are I will have it in hours, not days, weeks or months. When my sister's doctor ordered an MRI as an outpatient recently on her hip, it was exactly 1 week until she had it.

 

[jaeger19]

I'm not. I would work to not be there not demand others cover me.

No.. you would not. The people that don't have insurance are those that are working. they are generally very hard workers.. they earn enough money that they don't qualify for Medicaid. They earn enough money that they don't get much subsidy.. but they don't have enough money to afford one thousand a month or more for medical insurance. And their employer doesn't cover insurance or they are self employed.

Basically they fall through the cracks (though some are folks that are choosing not to have healthcare insurance).

So no.. these folks ARE NOT demanding that others cover them. In fact.. they are already paying taxes so that folks on Medicaid and Medicare.. CAN get their health insurance. So.. while they are paying the taxes to cover OTHER PEOPLE.. they themselves aren't covered.

Its why I called you on your BS. Because you are dead wrong on who these folks are.

 

[Renae]

No.. you would not. The people that don't have insurance are those that are working. they are generally very hard workers.. they earn enough money that they don't qualify for Medicaid. They earn enough money that they don't get much subsidy.. but they don't have enough money to afford one thousand a month or more for medical insurance. And their employer doesn't cover insurance or they are self employed.

Basically they fall through the cracks (though some are folks that are choosing not to have healthcare insurance).

So no.. these folks ARE NOT demanding that others cover them. In fact.. they are already paying taxes so that folks on Medicaid and Medicare.. CAN get their health insurance. So.. while they are paying the taxes to cover OTHER PEOPLE.. they themselves aren't covered.

Its why I called you on your BS. Because you are dead wrong on who these folks are.

Yeah, all those poor people need their betters to care for them because they are just not capable, give up your freedom for a little security... that always works well..

 

[jaeger19]

Yeah, all those poor people need their betters to care for them because they are just not capable, give up your freedom for a little security... that always works well..

Uhhhh… you seem to have reading comprehension problems. AS I point out.. that 10% that don't have insurance is generally NOT made up of "poor people not incapable of working"...

IF you are poor you already qualify for Medicaid.. particularly if you are in a state with expanded Medicaid. IF you barely don't qualify for Medicaid.. then under Obamacare you qualify for a government subsidiy to buy health insurance.

That 10% of folks without healthcare ARE MAKING ENOUGH MONEY THEY DON"T QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID. They also generally are making enough money that they don't qualify for much subsidy.

They simply fall into the cracks. MEANWHILE.. that 10% is making enough money that they are paying taxes so that people on Medicaid and Medicare can get their insurance.

Sorry ma'am but you are not dealing with reality here. The 10% without insurance aren't "poor people that need their betters to care for them"...

 

[Renae]

Uhhhh… you seem to have reading comprehension problems. AS I point out.. that 10% that don't have insurance is generally NOT made up of "poor people not incapable of working"...

IF you are poor you already qualify for Medicaid.. particularly if you are in a state with expanded Medicaid. IF you barely don't qualify for Medicaid.. then under Obamacare you qualify for a government subsidiy to buy health insurance.

That 10% of folks without healthcare ARE MAKING ENOUGH MONEY THEY DON"T QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID. They also generally are making enough money that they don't qualify for much subsidy.

They simply fall into the cracks. MEANWHILE.. that 10% is making enough money that they are paying taxes so that people on Medicaid and Medicare can get their insurance.

Sorry ma'am but you are not dealing with reality here. The 10% without insurance aren't "poor people that need their betters to care for them"...

No reading comprehension problem, you're saying those people are not able to ever improve their lot in life, and must have others care for them. Because they just failed at life and CARING people like you know that making everyone else a little poorer, making everyone wait more for care, making all of us pay more in the end in time, money and loss of access to healthcare in a timely manner is the BEST way forward!

 

[Robertinfremont]

Where are we getting the impression that our current system has shorter wait times?
Sorry, but unless you go to a place like St. John's Medical in Santa Monica or some similar small private hospital, you aren't necessarily enjoying shorter wait times.

Trump thought that shunting more disabled vets into the private sector would show off the difference between VA wait times and the outside world, till it turned out that they were dealing with EVEN LONGER wait times out there than in most VA facilities.

Doctors truly despise having to accept payment from the Fed. Government.

 

[justabubba]

No reading comprehension problem, you're saying those people are not able to ever improve their lot in life, and must have others care for them. Because they just failed at life and CARING people like you know that making everyone else a little poorer, making everyone wait more for care, making all of us pay more in the end in time, money and loss of access to healthcare in a timely manner is the BEST way forward!

the tell us what is a better way?

 

[Court Jester]

Healthcare is NOT a fundamental right. If you cannot pay for your own healthcare costs, then the appropriate means to get care would be welfare or charity. However putting everyone under the same system which ends up PUNISHING people who have their sh*t together while rewarding people who don't is wrong.

 

[Bullseye]

Where are we getting the impression that our current system has shorter wait times?
Sorry, but unless you go to a place like St. John's Medical in Santa Monica or some similar small private hospital, you aren't necessarily enjoying shorter wait times.

Trump thought that shunting more disabled vets into the private sector would show off the difference between VA wait times and the outside world, till it turned out that they were dealing with EVEN LONGER wait times out there than in most VA facilities.

There's two issues. First access to a primary physician and access to specialists/advanced procedures. As I understand getting to see a primary car Dr in Canada doesn't entail any more delay than here. So if you're super health and see your Dr once or twice a year - no biggie. But when you need imaging, or surgery, etc. the situation changes. I'd recommend you look at some of the documents on the Fraser Institute website for specifics. Several months ago I linked a report from the Canadian medical organization - kinda like our HHS, I gather. Anyway the report basically said in a high percentage of cases their system was failing to meet even the extremely generous wait time goals they set for themselves.

Just a quick, unscientific anecdote. A few years ago my father-in-law and the partner of a cousin in Vancouver suffered severe cases of diverticulosis at almost the same time. Both were refered from the primary Dr to a specialist who then recommend surgery; my FIL saw the specialist, had the surgery and was out golfing with his buddies before my cousins partner met with the specialist - he then had to wait three months for the operation. Vancouver is a large metropolitan city; my FIL lived in a tiny jerkwater town in the Central Valley.

As far as the VA vs private providers - I'd guess that's situational; I dealt with the VA for a few years after retiring from the Navy and never had a problem getting treatment for knee and back problems. I have talked to Navy friends that had horror stories at the same hospital.

 

[jaeger19]

No reading comprehension problem, you're saying those people are not able to ever improve their lot in life, and must have others care for them. d!

Nope.. not saying that. The irony is that these people HAVE improved their lot in life.. thats what you don't get.. or frankly refuse to acknowledge the fact. These folks have been able to make enough money that they DO NOT QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID.

These folks are paying taxes so that people on Medicaid and Medicare.. can get there healthcare. These people have NOT failed in life. They simply fall into the cracks where the cost of healthcare insurance has outstripped their ability to pay for it.. AND they have succeeded enough that they qualify for government AID... but meanwhile are paying taxes to subsidize everyone else.

Heck.. if you are on medicare.. its likely that this person is subsidizing YOUR medicare.

 

[jaeger19]

Healthcare is NOT a fundamental right. If you cannot pay for your own healthcare costs, then the appropriate means to get care would be welfare or charity. However putting everyone under the same system which ends up PUNISHING people who have their sh*t together while rewarding people who don't is wrong.

Except hospitals are required to treat people by law.. regardless of the ability to pay. Which by the way.. YOU want them to.

Tell me.. if a 10 year old child comes into the ER with acute appendicitis.. and will die without surgery...

Should the hospital tell the parents to go pound sand and let the child die because they don't have the money or insurance to pay for the surgery?

Please answer that.

 

[jaeger19]

Doctors truly despise having to accept payment from the Fed. Government.

We despise having to treat people for free more. And we despise people that would let a 10 year old die because they don't have the money or insurance to pay for surgery.

 

[Renae]

the tell us what is a better way?

Real free market healthcare without all the Govt BS. The free markets, with competition and unfettered from mandates from Bureaucrats in Washington would far better serve us than a system dictated by DC where their main goal is keeping YOu relying on THEM in power.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Doctors truly despise having to accept payment from the Fed. Government.

Do highway contractors truly despise it too?
How about defense contractors?
Both of those are private sector industries...how come they salivate at the prospect?

Think about it.

 

[Renae]

We despise having to treat people for free more. And we despise people that would let a 10 year old die because they don't have the money or insurance to pay for surgery.

You'd rather that 10 year old wait for months and possibly die suffering waiting for treatment more but as long as it is "free" you can pretend you cared. Got it.

 

[vegas giants]

You'd rather that 10 year old wait for months and possibly die suffering waiting for treatment more but as long as it is "free" you can pretend you cared. Got it.

In America some just wait till they die

 

[vegas giants]

Real free market healthcare without all the Govt BS. The free markets, with competition and unfettered from mandates from Bureaucrats in Washington would far better serve us than a system dictated by DC where their main goal is keeping YOu relying on THEM in power.

That plan works nowhere on earth

 

[Robertinfremont]

Do highway contractors truly despise it too?
How about defense contractors?
Both of those are private sector industries...how come they salivate at the prospect?

Think about it.

Have you managed a company that is dependent on the Feds?

Doctors are treated different than are contractors. Have a frank chat with your doctor. Try actually asking him or her.

 

[Bullseye]

That plan works nowhere on earth

Because it's never been tried on earth.

 

[Robertinfremont]

In America some just wait till they die

Vegas Giants. So this is where you went to once the mods took care of you. They took care of me too. I am rapidly growing to truly like this forum.

 

[vegas giants]

Vegas Giants. So this is where you went to once the mods took care of you. They took care of me too. I am rapidly growing to truly like this forum.

As usual no clue what you are on about