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Sin is impossible and illogical.

Lisa said:
Brainwashing children to believe an illogical lies and selling a product that doesn't exist is a problem. Kids are being abused and trying to address the problem after it happens is not doing enough to protect them. Religious belief and organized religions are inherently predatory and children should be protected until they can make an independent decision for themselves at the age of adulthood instead of being brainwashed since they were a toddler to take part in an emotionally and physically abusive scam.

The religious beliefs of a parent do not permit them to emotionally and physically abuse their children. Blindly believing in what does not objectively exist does not in any way make a person moral or ethical.
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Integrityrespec said:
Free will, don't understand that concept do ya?
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I know what free will is, but it might not be possible because of deterministic physics. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/finding-free-will/


The fact that the Abrahamic god claims to be omniscient (all knowing) makes free will impossible because is s/he knows everything then there can be no free will because if your future decisions/actions can be known then you cannot possibly have free will. The fact that you do not know that your actions are predetermined doesn't change the fact that you still do not have free will if omniscience exists.

If your actions or decisions are already predetermined (predestination) then you cannot be punished for something that was not a choice, and as such sin is imppossible/illogical.

QED, Logic is never meant to be a foreign language.
 
Lisa said:
QED, Logic is never meant to be a foreign language.
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It's sad and very telling how logic does seem to be foreign to so many, especially when religion is involved.
 
Gordy327 said:
It's sad and very telling how logic does seem to be foreign to so many, especially when religion is involved.
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My own daughter is furious with me, to the point she hung up on me because of my penchant for logic and her religious conservatism.

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Lisa said:
My own daughter is furious with me, to the point she hung up on me because of my penchant for logic and her religious conservatism.
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Religion does often cause divisions and conflict, both historically and even today.
 
devildavid said:
The problem is determining what the target is. Some want it to be something determined by an imaginary perfect deity. If we do that, of course human beings miss the mark. But what should we realistically make the target and why should we even use such a concept at all? It leads to more problems than solutions.
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Always being right/perfect...that should appeal to you...:sneaky:
 
Daisy said:
Themselves of course...otherwise they'd simply state, "I don't believe that" and move on...
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Pippi Longstock said:
I don’t see it as them trying to convince anything except that they are better than a Christian.
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I think you've both given valid answers. There are some people who would definitely fit into either category.

Thanks. :)
 
Pippi Longstock said:
I don’t see it as them trying to convince anything except that they are better than a Christian.
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Nope, that is not it at all. We are discussing ideas, not who is better. Christians here often try to make out that the non believers are longing for something that believers have. Why do they do that?
 
devildavid said:
The problem is determining what the target is. Some want it to be something determined by an imaginary perfect deity. If we do that, of course human beings miss the mark. But what should we realistically make the target and why should we even use such a concept at all? It leads to more problems than solutions.
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Sure—that’s a good point. I’m afraid I don’t know the target and don’t pretend to. I think the idea is just that we recognize we are imperfect—if nothing else, we set out to accomplish something and often fail. But the point is that the idea of sun that Christianity adopted is nothing like what appears in the old or New Testament.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Sure—that’s a good point. I’m afraid I don’t know the target and don’t pretend to. I think the idea is just that we recognize we are imperfect—if nothing else, we set out to accomplish something and often fail. But the point is that the idea of sun that Christianity adopted is nothing like what appears in the old or New Testament.
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But what that exists can be called perfect? The problem is the idea that we know what perfection means in order to have it as a goal. What we call failure could really just be seen as an unavoidable event on the way to success.
 
Integrityrespec said:
Free will, don't understand that concept do ya?
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What free will? The concept of original sin means we are not free to choose to NOT be sinful. The whole story is self-contradictory and makes no sense. Whoever made it up did not think it through very well.
 
devildavid said:
Nope, that is not it at all. We are discussing ideas, not who is better. Christians here often try to make out that the non believers are longing for something that believers have. Why do they do that?
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I've seen it all when it comes to Atheists. The sky daddy, the spaghetti monster, yadda, yadda, Christians are dumb, Atheists are smart. In the end I find it is just mocking Christians and God. I choose not to engage non believers who love to mock because I am not interested in being part of the cause for mocking. I don't want to be part of the reason they say something that they might regret saying later.
 
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Pippi Longstock said:
I've seen it all when it comes to Atheists. The sky daddy, the spaghetti monster, yadda, yadda, Christians are dumb, Atheists are smart. In the end I find it is just mocking Christians and God. I choose not to engage non believers who love to mock because I am not interested in being part of the cause for mocking. I don't want to be part of the reason they say something that they might regret saying later.
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And I have seen it all when it comes to god believers. I don’t enjoy when it devolves into cheap shots either, but I can’t control the tendency for it to always come to that. And don’t forget the useless and endless debates about whether religious beliefs or atheism has a higher body count. All that is silly nonsense. I still attempt to debate the ideas but religious believers too often want their beliefs to be considered immune from skeptical inquiry. If they do, the only solution is to not post them in this particular sub forum. It really is that simple.
 
devildavid said:
And I have seen it all when it comes to god believers. I don’t enjoy when it devolves into cheap shots either, but I can’t control the tendency for it to always come to that. And don’t forget the useless and endless debates about whether religious beliefs or atheism has a higher body count. All that is silly nonsense. I still attempt to debate the ideas but religious believers too often want their beliefs to be considered immune from skeptical inquiry. If they do, the only solution is to not post them in this particular sub forum. It really is that simple.
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Sometimes it is tempting to get involved but in the end all of the point counterpoint feels like pride.
 
Pippi Longstock said:
I've seen it all when it comes to Atheists. The sky daddy, the spaghetti monster, yadda, yadda, Christians are dumb, Atheists are smart. In the end I find it is just mocking Christians and God. I choose not to engage non believers who love to mock because I am not interested in being part of the cause for mocking. I don't want to be part of the reason they say something that they might regret saying later.
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I agree with you, to a point, Pippi but we should not allow their ridicule to stop us from speaking out about our God, endurance is required in order to be a servant of God...

the apostle Paul, who wrote: “We are not the sort that shrink back to destruction, but the sort that have faith to the preserving alive of the soul.” (Hebrews 10:39) To “shrink back,” as Paul mentioned, does not mean just to experience a temporary bout of fear, for many faithful servants of God have at times been afraid. (1 Samuel 21:12; 1 Kings 19:1-4) Rather, it means “to draw back, withdraw,” to be “remiss in holding the truth,” explains one Bible dictionary. It adds that “shrink back” may be a metaphor based on “lowering a sail and so slackening the course” in regard to God’s service. Of course, those with strong faith give no consideration to “slackening the course” when difficulty arises—be it persecution, ill health, or some other trial. Instead, they press on in serving Jehovah, aware that he deeply cares for them and knows their limitations. (Psalm 55:22; 103:14)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989302
 
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