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Should we lower standards for potential female firefighters?

Should we lower standards for female firefighters?


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nothanks700

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Should hopeful firefighters who happen to be female have lower physical standards than male applicants?
 

Captain Adverse

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No.

Fires aren't going to take into account someone's sex when it comes to fire-fighting.

Either you can do the job as required by the needs of the position, or go find yourself another career.
 

OrphanSlug

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No, that is how we get into trouble.
 

_Sal

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Should hopeful firefighters who happen to be female have lower physical standards than male applicants?

absolutely since the job has evolved from just fighting fires to community out reach and a myriad of other tasks.

By the 2000’s, almost all of this had changed. Firefighters in most fire departments take part in public education, fire inspections, and other forms of community outreach. Almost all fire departments provide emergency medical response at the basic level and many offer full-service paramedic care and patient transport. Special units of firefighters are trained to handle hazardous materials (“hazmat”) incidents, fast-water rescue, dive rescue (SCUBA), and technical (high-angle and collapse) rescue. Arson investigation, fire code enforcement and fire safety education often form separate divisions within the fire department. A wide range of community-service careers has replaced the limited choices of a generation ago.

Fire service strength and fitness tests relaxed to allow more women to become firefighters | Daily Mail Online

things change this is no longer a profession relying on brute strength
 

Captain Adverse

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absolutely since the job has evolved from just fighting fires to community out reach and a myriad of other tasks.



Fire service strength and fitness tests relaxed to allow more women to become firefighters | Daily Mail Online

things change this is no longer a profession relying on brute strength

So because the English jump into a fire and don't expect to get burned we should do so too? :roll:

For example, they relaxed the requirement to carry "12 stone" (168 pounds) on their backs alone for a distance of 100 yards in less than a minute.

The weight of the average American male these days is 195.5 pounds, and women are 166 pounds, and that's not talking about the 35% of Americans who are obese.

CDC: Average Weight of Women Today Same as Men in 1960s

Consider trying to carry the unconscious body of an average American down a narrow flight of stairs, and out of a burning building as fast a possible before it collapses on you...especially in this era of skyscrapers next to tenements.

As for "non-fire fighting related jobs?" Then take one of the positions that is not a "fireman" and be content.

Either you can do all the work required, or find another career. PERIOD!
 

_Sal

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So because the English jump into a fire and don't expect to get burned we should do so too? :roll:

For example, they relaxed the requirement to carry "12 stone" (168 pounds) on their backs alone for a distance of 100 yards in less than a minute.

The weight of the average American male these days is 195.5 pounds, and women are 166 pounds, and that's not talking about the 35% of Americans who are obese.

CDC: Average Weight of Women Today Same as Men in 1960s

Consider trying to carry the unconscious body of an average American down a narrow flight of stairs, and out of a burning building as fast a possible before it collapses on you...especially in this era of skyscrapers next to tenements.

As for "non-fire fighting related jobs?" Then take one of the positions that is not a "fireman" and be content.

Either you can do all the work required, or find another career. PERIOD!
different states have different requirements and they are all considered firefighters

that's just the way it is now for over 15 years, it is no longer considered a manual labour job it is a profession so yes they have to meet requirements (still) it's just that the requirements have changed
 

Captain Adverse

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different states have different requirements and they are all considered firefighters

that's just the way it is now for over 15 years, it is no longer considered a manual labour job it is a profession so yes they have to meet requirements (still) it's just that the requirements have changed

Just because a thing is done, does not make it right.

I hope that if you are ever caught in a fire that the rescuer can carry you out of it; rather than explain they didn't need to have the capability and you have to wait until someone who does can show up. :shrug:
 

_Sal

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Just because a thing is done, does not make it right.
agreed and just because something has been done a certain way for a hundred years doesn't mean it is still best practice especially with increased insight and new technology

I hope that if you are ever caught in a fire that the rescuer can carry you out of it; rather than explain they didn't need to have the capability and you have to wait until someone who does can show up. :shrug:
brute strength isn't necessary any longer, read up on what they actually do....it's more important to actually have a brain these days

:shrug: if you need to make it personal, I'm pretty sure anybody could drag my 128lbs out the window and down the ladder, although the need for that has become less and less these days, wonder why...oh yeah, building code changes, better response time, better understanding of fire science to name just a few
 

Carjosse

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agreed and just because something has been done a certain way for a hundred years doesn't mean it is still best practice especially with increased insight and new technology


brute strength isn't necessary any longer, read up on what they actually do....it's more important to actually have a brain these days

:shrug: if you need to make it personal, I'm pretty sure anybody could drag my 128lbs out the window and down the ladder, although the need for that has become less and less these days, wonder why...oh yeah, building code changes, better response time, better understanding of fire science to name just a few

But that still does not change the strength requirements for the job itself. Just because a firefighter must also be good at community outreach does not mean they no longer have to carry someone. By all means hire a community outreach specialist or something but if they cannot meet the strength requirement they should stay well way from actual firefighting.
 

MickeyW

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No.

Fires aren't going to take into account someone's sex when it comes to fire-fighting.

Either you can do the job as required by the needs of the position, or go find yourself another career.

Absolutely!

No, that is how we get into trouble.

Yep. Same problem we encountered in police work.

absolutely since the job has evolved from just fighting fires to community out reach and a myriad of other tasks.



Fire service strength and fitness tests relaxed to allow more women to become firefighters | Daily Mail Online

things change this is no longer a profession relying on brute strength

For some things...but brute strength is what it normally boils down to in the end....and few women can do the job....and lightweights need to look for another career. Besides that, some women get too emotional, especially when kids are involved.
I have no problem with women firefighters, but the standards should never be lowered to accommodate the bleeding heart liberal, PC crapola!!!
Same for police work and the same for the military. Women should not be ground combat troops.

So because the English jump into a fire and don't expect to get burned we should do so too? :roll:

For example, they relaxed the requirement to carry "12 stone" (168 pounds) on their backs alone for a distance of 100 yards in less than a minute.

The weight of the average American male these days is 195.5 pounds, and women are 166 pounds, and that's not talking about the 35% of Americans who are obese.

CDC: Average Weight of Women Today Same as Men in 1960s

Consider trying to carry the unconscious body of an average American down a narrow flight of stairs, and out of a burning building as fast a possible before it collapses on you...especially in this era of skyscrapers next to tenements.

As for "non-fire fighting related jobs?" Then take one of the positions that is not a "fireman" and be content.

Either you can do all the work required, or find another career. PERIOD!

Fully Agree!!

And not only obese but morbidly obese.....
In recent years, morbid obesity has increased dramatically in the youth of today....every time I go to my favorite grocery store, I see young females and many males too, weighing in the neighborhood of 200 to 300 pounds and higher.....even grade school and high school kids. It's downright disgusting and the US govt. PSA messages about obesity....aren't being heard or adhered to.

different states have different requirements and they are all considered firefighters

that's just the way it is now for over 15 years, it is no longer considered a manual labour job it is a profession so yes they have to meet requirements (still) it's just that the requirements have changed
Why in the world should the requirements change at all??? Just because they consider them firefighters, doesn't make it so!

I know of many women cops, some are ok, others horrible and really suck.

Just because a thing is done, does not make it right.

I hope that if you are ever caught in a fire that the rescuer can carry you out of it; rather than explain they didn't need to have the capability and you have to wait until someone who does can show up. :shrug:

Yep!

agreed and just because something has been done a certain way for a hundred years doesn't mean it is still best practice especially with increased insight and new technology


brute strength isn't necessary any longer, read up on what they actually do....it's more important to actually have a brain these days

:shrug: if you need to make it personal, I'm pretty sure anybody could drag my 128lbs out the window and down the ladder, although the need for that has become less and less these days, wonder why...oh yeah, building code changes, better response time, better understanding of fire science to name just a few

Many times the practices that have been going on for 100 years...are the best ones today!
 

Captain Adverse

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agreed and just because something has been done a certain way for a hundred years doesn't mean it is still best practice especially with increased insight and new technology


brute strength isn't necessary any longer, read up on what they actually do....it's more important to actually have a brain these days

:shrug: if you need to make it personal, I'm pretty sure anybody could drag my 128lbs out the window and down the ladder, although the need for that has become less and less these days, wonder why...oh yeah, building code changes, better response time, better understanding of fire science to name just a few

I don't have to read up. I know firefighters who have had to adapt to the circumstances surrounding each fire. There will be a time when a firefighter will have to carry a person out of immediate danger, and if he cannot do it safely and quickly then both may end up dead.
 

joG

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Should hopeful firefighters who happen to be female have lower physical standards than male applicants?

Ifvwe don't mind fire brigades of lowered effectiveness with more casualties? Fine.
 

Paleocon

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Should hopeful firefighters who happen to be female have lower physical standards than male applicants?

No. Women should not be firefighters.
 

Dittohead not!

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Standards are the same for male and for female firefighters. That's why we no longer use the term "fireman."
 

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agreed and just because something has been done a certain way for a hundred years doesn't mean it is still best practice especially with increased insight and new technology


brute strength isn't necessary any longer, read up on what they actually do....it's more important to actually have a brain these days

:shrug: if you need to make it personal, I'm pretty sure anybody could drag my 128lbs out the window and down the ladder, although the need for that has become less and less these days, wonder why...oh yeah, building code changes, better response time, better understanding of fire science to name just a few

Strength comes in pretty handy when dragging hoses, breaking down doors, and dragging victims away from danger. I want to see a 100 lb. female break out a fire hose by herself first before I believe anything you have posted about the subject. I was a Locker Leader, On Scene Leader, and Fire Marshall in the Navy and I can tell you first hand that females are very limited physically in a shipboard fire, and pier side fires. I had to use them as investigators, and messengers due to their limited strength. Not because I wanted to, but because they could have hurt themselves, or others.
 

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People saying yes are morons.... talk to me when you have served with a female in a dangerous situation. Til then, STFU.
 

Bodhisattva

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absolutely since the job has evolved from just fighting fires to community out reach and a myriad of other tasks.



Fire service strength and fitness tests relaxed to allow more women to become firefighters | Daily Mail Online

things change this is no longer a profession relying on brute strength

The question is about working a line or roof, real world dangerous situations, not a PR spokesperson or driver.

I guess you have first hand experience with this situation then?
 

Bodhisattva

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Bodhisattva

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oh brother...no where in the OP was it mentioned the standards should be lowered to a level which is unsafe...

drama, drama, drama

But it is by default... lowering it to a level where women are in fire situations in buildings that require them to heave lines and haul body's lowers the safety automatically.

And I asked if you have had first hand experience and you did not answer... so I must assume the answer is no, rendering your opinion worthless.
 

_Sal

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But it is by default... lowering it to a level where women are in fire situations in buildings that require them to heave lines and haul body's lowers the safety automatically.

And I asked if you have had first hand experience and you did not answer... so I must assume the answer is no, rendering your opinion worthless.

do some research before calling others morons...IF you had before shooting off your mouth you would have seen that IN FACT some women did better than some of the men...it's not how it used to be for many reasons...but yeah, just continue to believe what you believe even when wrong and call others morons

I eat that stuff up
 

Bodhisattva

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do some research before calling others morons...IF you had before shooting off your mouth you would have seen that IN FACT some women did better than some of the men...it's not how it used to be for many reasons...but yeah, just continue to believe what you believe even when wrong and call others morons

I eat that stuff up

I'll take my 5 years in a fire brigade saving lives, carrying body's, working in/on flaming structures and hauling lines over anything that you read online any day of the week...
 
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