should we back Israel militarily?

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Iran and syria are now surrounded on both sides should we back Israel and force them both into a two front war?

 

[Kandahar]

Do you mean provide them with support, or do you mean actually send our own troops? If there's a war with Iran, it will be THEM backing US, not the other way around. A war with Iran may be inevitable, but this is not the time to strike. As for Syria and Lebanon, I'm completely in favor of helping Israel with non-combat support any way we can, but it's THEIR problem, not ours. We don't need to send our troops there.

 

[RightOfCenter]

Iran and syria are now surrounded on both sides should we back Israel and force them into a two front war?

I think Israel is setting a good example by drawing a hardline against a terrorist organization, but should the U.S. get involved? I don't believe so. It really doesn't advance U.S. interests to help Israel when they are already walking all over Syria at will, and last time I checked, even though tensions are high, we are not at war with Syria or Iran. Unless other countries get involved and Israel gets attacked by every neighboring Arab country, we should stay out.

 

[cherokee]

To wipe out Hamas and Hezbollah you’re damn right we should.
You can call me unprofessional or whatever all you want but I still hold a deep hatred toward the Hezbollah.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Do you mean provide them with support, or do you mean actually send our own troops?

Troops

If there's a war with Iran, it will be THEM backing US, not the other way around. A war with Iran may be inevitable, but this is not the time to strike. As for Syria and Lebanon, I'm completely in favor of helping Israel with non-combat support any way we can, but it's THEIR problem, not ours. We don't need to send our troops there.

No it's our problem too Beiruit Marine Barracks 1983 bombing by Hezbollah ring any bells?

Hezbollah is bought and paid for by Tehran and Demascus.

Lebanon is just the stepping stone to syria and syria has been actively funding insurgent activities against coalition troops in Iraq and so has Iran and the newest reports have claimed that Iranian soldiers may have been responsible for the rocket attacks in Israel that just happened.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend why not attack now should we wait till Iran acquires nukes first?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

To wipe out Hamas and Hezbollah you’re damn right we should.
You can call me unprofessional or whatever all you want but I still hold a deep hatred toward the Hezbollah.

\

****en-a!!!!!!!!!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Bush doesn't even need congressional approval he can deploy the troops into syria for 60 days which is all it would take and we could withdraw and allow Israel to take the helm.

 

[Chris]

The IDF and by extension the entire Zionist ideology is just as hateful, racist, and militant as Hamas, Hezbollah or any of the Islamist terrorist groups.

The only people the US or any other nation should give any help or sympathy to are the civilian victims, whether they be Jewish, Muslim, Christian, etc.

Obviously the US is going to back the Israeli regime regardless of how many international laws they spit on, Jesus isn't going to be resurected on his own *sign*.

 

[Gardener]

The IDF and by extension the entire Zionist ideology is just as hateful, racist, and militant as Hamas, Hezbollah or any of the Islamist terrorist groups.

QUOTE]


What nonsense. Zionism is simply the name for the movement to establish a Jewish homeland and give the Jewish people the same right to self determination as is afforded any other people.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The IDF and by extension the entire Zionist ideology is just as hateful, racist, and militant as Hamas, Hezbollah or any of the Islamist terrorist groups.

The only people the US or any other nation should give any help or sympathy to are the civilian victims, whether they be Jewish, Muslim, Christian, etc.

Obviously the US is going to back the Israeli regime regardless of how many international laws they spit on, Jesus isn't going to be resurected on his own *sign*.

To hell with the hypocritical international law of the tyrannically dominated U.N. which has not once called for a resolution against Hamas or Hesbollah but continiously calls to place sanctions on Israel for defending herself so much so that they didn't even want to allow Israel to put up a fence to keep suicide bombers out.

 

[Kandahar]

No it's our problem too Beiruit Marine Barracks 1983 bombing by Hezbollah ring any bells?

OK, and 23 years later I think that justification for war is a bit out of date.

Hezbollah is bought and paid for by Tehran and Demascus.

I know they are. But Hezbollah is primarily Israel's problem, not ours. I'm not opposed to helping Israel when we can, but I'm not sure that a big troop commitment to Syria/Lebanon is a good idea when there are more pressing concerns from America's perspective (Somalia/Afghanistan).

Lebanon is just the stepping stone to syria and syria has been actively funding insurgent activities against coalition troops in Iraq and so has Iran and the newest reports have claimed that Iranian soldiers may have been responsible for the rocket attacks in Israel that just happened.

If we're just talking about sending troops for a couple weeks to help Israel overthrow the Baathists in Syria and completely annihilate Hizbollah, I suppose I'd support that if the Pentagon thinks it's a good idea. But only for a couple weeks. We don't need another long occupation and insurgency.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend why not attack now should we wait till Iran acquires nukes first?

We shouldn't wait until Iran acquires nukes. But we should wait a little longer to make it abundantly clear to the Europeans and Chinese (I exclude the Russians because they'll oppose us no matter what) that Iran has no interest in negotiations and military action must be taken. The Europeans are coming around and even the Chinese can still be persuaded.

Regardless, if we end up going to war with Iran it should be because they threaten American interests, not because they supported some terror attacks in Israel. One war with dubious justifications is already one too many.

 

[Kandahar]

The IDF and by extension the entire Zionist ideology is just as hateful, racist, and militant as Hamas, Hezbollah or any of the Islamist terrorist groups.

Bullshit. Israel doesn't intentionally target civilians for no reason. Israel doesn't try to push the Arabs into the sea. Israel doesn't teach its children from an early age that Arabs are cannibals. Israel doesn't adopt Nazi ideology.

And for future reference, anytime I see the phrase "Zionist ideology" I'll assume you're an anti-semite until I see reason to believe otherwise. And I have a feeling I'm not alone in that.

 

[Chris]

What nonsense. Zionism is simply the name for the movement to establish a Jewish homeland and give the Jewish people the same right to self determination as is afforded any other people.

Where do the Palestinian Arabs factor into this?

 

[RightOfCenter]

Regardless, if we end up going to war with Iran it should be because they threaten American interests, not because they supported some terror attacks in Israel. One war with dubious justifications is already one too many.

Amen to that:applaud

 

[Chris]

To hell with the hypocritical international law of the tyrannically dominated U.N. which has not once called for a resolution against Hamas or Hesbollah but continiously calls to place sanctions on Israel for defending herself so much so that they didn't even want to allow Israel to put up a fence to keep suicide bombers out.

I agree that the UN should hold Hamas and Hezbollah responsible for their actions. The same should also apply to actions taken by the Israelis.

Israel and the Arab dictatorships should have sanctions slapped on them. Israel for its ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arab, denial of their right of return, and consist violation of their basic right to live and exist with dignity.

The Arab regimes should be given the same treatment for their suppression of democracy and human rights. Not just Iran and Syria but the Arab dictatorships the US and sadly most other western nations support in exchange for oil (Saudi Arabia being the worst offender by far).

 

[Gardener]

Where do the Palestinian Arabs factor into this?

There are large numbers of Arab states if you hadn't noticed.

and also large numbers of Arabs living within Israel who are afforded more basic human rights than they would be were they living in these Arab states.

If the people who started calling themselves Palestinians only a scant few decades ago wish to have a state of their own, though, they should have one, too. Israel pulled out of Gaza towards that end, but their act of good faith was reciprocated by increased terrorism as hundreds of rockets have been launched from Gaza with the intent of murdering Jewish civilians.

 

[Caine]

I voted Yes.

But by voting so, I believe we should help out with non-combat support for now. If problems continue, and we can get the Iraq Quagmire under control where our troops aren't needed there in the hundres of thousands, then we should try to assist Israel with combat troops.

I know this isn't what most people on DP would expect from me, but my views on this Islamofascism bullshit are changing, mostly due to this situation we are discussing.

(And I like to see someone in the Middle East stand up for themselves and kick some ***, I don't mind helping those who are already trying to help themselves)

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I agree that the UN should hold Hamas and Hezbollah responsible for their actions. The same should also apply to actions taken by the Israelis.

Israel and the Arab dictatorships should have sanctions slapped on them. Israel for its ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arab, denial of their right of return, and consist violation of their basic right to live and exist with dignity.

That's a complete lie not only is there not an ethnic cleansing taking place but it was the Arab countries who created the refugee camps.

As to their right to return maybe they should quit blowing up Israeli women and children while they're in Israel. I mean would you knowingly let a murderer into your house?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I voted Yes.

But by voting so, I believe we should help out with non-combat support for now. If problems continue, and we can get the Iraq Quagmire under control where our troops aren't needed there in the hundres of thousands, then we should try to assist Israel with combat troops.

I know this isn't what most people on DP would expect from me, but my views on this Islamofascism bullshit are changing, mostly due to this situation we are discussing.

(And I like to see someone in the Middle East stand up for themselves and kick some ***, I don't mind helping those who are already trying to help themselves)

We'll make you an evil conservative yet. Did you know that that term is not a misnomer? Islamic fascism is the direct descendent of the third reich.

Google: Al-Banna, Grand Mufti of Palestinia, and sayyid Qutb

And read this article it will give you some perspective on the enemy:

The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaeda
By John Loftus
Jewish Community News | October 4, 2004


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=frontpage+nazi+Islam+CIA

 

[Gardener]

Israel and the Arab dictatorships should have sanctions slapped on them. Israel for its ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arab).

What extrordinary ignorance.

In 1940 there were a million Jews living in arab lands. Today, thanks to systematic persecution there are fewer than 10,000. Now, THAT is ethnic clensing

Conversely, there are over 1.3 milliion Arabs living within Israel proper which is greater than the number living in all of the Palestinian Mandate in 1940.

Sounds to me that your knowlege extends no further than an ability to parrot buzz phrases like "ethnic clensing". Instead of just picking up bits of propaganda from the antisemitic web sites you visit, though, why not actually study a little real history instead? If you were to do so, you would realize how idiotic it sounds to accuse the Jews of ethnic clensing vis a vis the Arabs.

 

[Chris]

When I said that the Israeli leaders are no better than the Arab ones I meant that they are equally responsible for fueling the conflict and preventing an acceptable resoultion. Obviously they do not employ the exact same methods as the pro-Palestinian groups do. Nonetheless I will try and address some of your points.

Bullshit. Israel doesn't intentionally target civilians for no reason.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Israel doesn't try to push the Arabs into the sea.

Maybe not into the sea, but what about pushing them off the land they have inhabited for 1400's years? For the record I'm against pushing anyone into the sea, what I want is coexistance.

And for future reference, anytime I see the phrase "Zionist ideology" I'll assume you're an anti-semite until I see reason to believe otherwise. And I have a feeling I'm not alone in that.

Ouch! Well I'll have you know that while I am obviously very anti-zionist I by no means consider myself anti-semitic. What I want is for the two groups (Israeli's and Palestinian Arabs) to coexist within the same country. The Israeli leaders oppose any possibility of this. Therefore I consider them as much an obstacle to peace and reconciliation as their Islamic fundamentalist counterparts on the Arab side.

I don't feel that opposing a racist political system/ideology makes me anti-semitic. I believe that it makes me humane.

 

[Monkey Mind]

Yes Israel is our ally, we should give Israel military support if they need us. Lebanon and Syria are fair game due to their known support of terror groups. If it becomes convenient or necessary for us to clean those up, then so be it.

I'm not so sure about Iran though. I'd hate to see another invasion based on some poorly substantiated allegations of nuclear activity. If we go to war with Iran, it had better be after a clear act of agression on their part. Same goes for North Korea.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

What extrordinary ignorance.

In 1940 there were a million Jews living in arab lands. Today, thanks to systematic persecution there are fewer than 10,000. Now, THAT is ethnic clensing

Conversely, there are over 1.3 milliion Arabs living within Israel proper which is greater than the number living in all of the Palestinian Mandate in 1940.

Sounds to me that your knowlege extends no further than an ability to parrot buzz phrases like "ethnic clensing". Instead of just picking up bits of propaganda from the antisemitic web sites you visit, though, why not actually study a little real history instead? If you were to do so, you would realize how idiotic it sounds to accuse the Jews of ethnic clensing vis a vis the Arabs.

Palestinians aren't Arabs they're semites, sorry just wanted to throw that in.

 

[Gardener]

We'll make you an evil conservative yet. Did you know that that term is not a misnomer? Islamic fascism is the direct descendent of the third reich.

Google: Al-Banna, Grand Mufti of Palestinia, and sayyid Qutb

Or perhaps you are really a liberal for rejecting the anti-humanist Nazi inspired agenda of the Islamists?

It is the dogmatic leftists rather than the liberals who support these Nazis and it is the old fascist right rather than conservatives likewise. The Nazi right and the Nazi left AGREE when it comes to this issue, and so it really isn't a liberal/conservative thing but an antisemitic vrs. non antisemitic thing and a case of extremist views vrs non extremist.

In any case, your statements here are fine by me, but I think you miss the mark in wanting to paint this as a conservative/liberal thing. I sure don't consider conservatives evil. Liberals aren't evil, either. The evil ones are those whose hearts are filled with hate and those exist at both ends of the political spectrum.

 

[Caine]

Or perhaps you are really a liberal for rejecting the anti-humanist Nazi inspired agenda of the Islamists?

It is the dogmatic leftists rather than the liberals who support these Nazis and it is the old fascist right rather than conservatives likewise. The Nazi right and the Nazi left AGREE when it comes to this issue, and so it really isn't a liberal/conservative thing but an antisemitic vrs. non antisemitic thing and a case of extremist views vrs non extremist.

In any case, your statements here are fine by me, but I think you miss the mark in wanting to paint this as a conservative/liberal thing. I sure don't consider conservatives evil. Liberals aren't evil, either. The evil ones are those whose hearts are filled with hate and those exist at both ends of the political spectrum.

This post was directed at me, due to our past differences.
I think you kinda jumped into this without realizing where his comments towards me were comming from.

And as for Trajan:
I'll still be more left leaning on most social issues, don't think you can change my mind there :2razz: